Stag of Oberon

[Betticus]

Bravo, I do like everything that you said and I believe that it needs it's own thread.

So, is the sub/dom real?

I work in a Deli, and believe it or not, I frequently hear the question;

"Is that real turkey?"

I'm not much for existentialism, yet it frequently takes a lot of self control not to ask them if anything is real, or if it's all some part of some grand illusion for the amusement of a higher being that may or may not care...

... or some thing like that. Sometimes I want to just throw a handful of turkey at someone and ask them if it's real.

In anycase, yes the turkey is real, you can see it, feel it, and I can even offer to let them taste it. Is it actually turkey? Well... as it turns out, the food and drug administration and the better buisness blah blah (I cant spell) require it to contain turkey if it is marketed as such, and the ingredients must be on the label as well.

What people really want to know is whether or not it's pressed, which most people don't actually know the term for. Yes, one of the turkey's we sell is pressed (made into a paste, possibly with extra ingredients, and reconstituted, like bologna)

So... are you a real sub?

Unlike the turkey, you don't have a wrapper with an ingredient label, and the food and drug administration has no buisness verifying any label you choose to put on yourself. Never the less, I'm sure if I bit into you, I would feel your flesh between my teeth, taste your skin, and perhaps even hear you whimper, moan, or shout for the cops.

So you're probably real.

As for the other part... that's really up to you what labels you choose to wear. Just keep in mind that others define us by our actions, not the titles we give ourselves. Those would be Dominants that tried to tell you how to be submissive, they're called pricks around here (or worse), regardless of what honorifics they try to wedge in front of their name.

Similarly, if you meet someone whom you want to submit to; do so. Thus, to that special person, you are a submissive (no one else really matters anyway).

 

[marieR19]

Just have to say thank you to both of you for you insights and opinions. Being "new" (still) to this, I have in the past questioned if I was a "real" sub. And I love your answers.


Heather

 

[ZenDragoness]

edited

 

[Tollo]

I too appreciate SoO's thoughts, and in the context in which they originally appeared, were excellent advice.

Let's push the question a little further though. I have found that there seems to be a lot of opinions about people who are "wannabes" and "poseurs" in BDSM communities. So I want to ask, what is it that makes these people less valid or genuine, and would we be correct that such an individual is not a true ___________ ?

My own thoughts about this are that within communities identities are negotiated between each member as an individual and other members more generally. Thus to be a true ___________ , requires more than simply considering yourself to be a ____________ . Others within the community must also see you that way and through their recognition we become validated in our self identity.


Tollo

 

[eastern sun]

I long to know that a mistress desires to do unto me, and what.
Be it biting, bondage, blood drinking, flogging, pegging or boot licking; the what is ultimately secondary. I don't crave pain or indignity, I just want to feel desirable again; a smidge of catharsis from worthlessness.

Hard questions and house chores were well and good; a wonderfull chance to test my submission and bring harmony to a household, but part of me is ever destined to be that sub slinking up beside the chair, longing for a mistress's touch, an absent minded caress, a hair tousling.

A part of me will always be that wretched creature that shrank from dismissal, without so much as a dissproving slap as my reward. It might have happened twice or a dozen times, a part of me crawls wretched still, even though the chair and the mistress are distant memories.

A part of me will ever be that untouchable fairie, curled up in the closet after, cursing myself for wanting so much more than I obviously deserved, or the cuckholded ghost in the basement, lying to myself that it's ok to be here. Perhaps part of me always was.

A part of me will always be submissive, but that part has not been healthy in many years. So too then are these longings quite unhealthy. I try not to entertain such fantasies over long; but briefly I dream of another mistress somewhere, with a wicked imagination thwarted by a profound absense beside her chair.

It is of little comfort, and I am careful to shelve it quickly, before my demons grant her my own voice, and my own disdain for myself. I can toy with the thought only fleetingly before it's claws steal away my sleep... and yet I am rarely successful in banishing it quite swiftly enough.

It seems a part of me will always be submitting beside an empty chair.

Stunning, Stag. Please keep writing.

I know what it is to submit to an empty chair.

I'm thoroughly convinced that this life we're living is the 'real' therapeutic process we are all engaged in. We can try to conform to the expectations of our various cultures; we can use the medications that are available to change our chemistry; but ultimately we're going to live our truths.

And apart from the 'real' pain of injury and illness, the denial, or repression, of our own truth is the root of the greatest suffering we experience.

If you open this dialogue with yourself, all that repressed energy will want expression. Trust that speaking your truths is healthy.

 

[Licia]

Beautiful, Stag. Please keep writing. Maybe it will help you post more regularly if your mindset lines with the hope that someone who's going/gone through the same situation(s) might stumble upon the thread and be looking for advice but not be comfortable enough to post.

"Worthlessness..."

My hubby explained to me that he gets a sense of worth by being submissive, and I must admit that when his admission came, it nearly tore the soul from my chi. It happened in the midst of "aftersession" care. Blah, I thought I would cry and ruin his moment, but I stuffed all that down and put on a "lovely" smile before I kissed him (Eh, I'm sure he recoginized what was happening inside, though). It only inspires me to be a more caring individual.

Go ahead with the warcraft stuff...nothing wrong with fantasy, yanno.

 

[Licia]

tears never ruin a moment (at least not for me) occasionally they make it though.

I don't know if submission would ease that sense of worthlessness... I don't recall it doing so in the past, at least not in and of itself. Physical or mental engagement does a lot to take my mind away from it, while gentle control goes a long way to make me feel wanted/ desirable, which in turn does seem to counter the feelings of worthlessness.

I hope that doesn't seem circular, but my point is that just submitting, just finding subspace, isn't remotely enough for me. Entirely by itself, subspace is a terrifying and dangerous mental place for me.

I don't know either, Stag. What I do know from personal experience: submitting to silent indifference is not healthy for the psyche.

Honestly, I cannot fully grasp why anyone would venture into the "serious" BDSM realm unless there was a basic, RL relationship structure first...might be fun, but probably asymmetric. Maybe it's the allure, the thrill. Maybe it's a dive, head-first, into making the fantasy a reality. Maybe it's just a need to pop. *shrugs* I do understand, however, the longing for fulfillment.

I haven't played WoW in almost 3 years, and dearly miss it. I'm not sure how I'd feel about what it's evolved into though.

I was actually talking about the setting that has spun out from running D&D. I don't set about creating hugely detailed backdrops, just a handful of locales with locals, and usually a map, generally detailing a relatively small area that the PC's would already be acquainted with, and develop "historical tidbits" as I draw it. I do make a point of detailing culture and laws relevant to the player characters, with a heavy hand towards culture in chaotic places where laws are replaced by traditions and pecking orders.

Some of my long time players have gotten savvy enough to pointedly ask questions about peculiar names or landmarks when they first look at a map that I've drawn.

In any case; I seem to be talented in creating a habitable nook for the PC's that seem relevant to their backgrounds (which I tend to take a heavy hand in crafting cooperatively), without overwhelming them early with the affairs of nations, which if involved at all, should wait a while as the players become more vested and aware of their surroundings.

Sounds rather creative and intellegent, methinks. The hubbs and I normally gravitate towards wow during the winter months because outdoorsy stuff becomes nigh impossible.

 

[Licia]

I use present tense for simplicity, but I haven't been in remotely near the described scenario in... a while.

"A while" could be a dangerous time span. Be wary of your own "admission": obedience is the price that's paid for the privilege of submission.

when you crave a high bad enough, you settle for the bad highs. I haven't had a 'good high' subspace in years, so at times I find myself trying to avoid the cravings altogether... sometimes lit helps, sometimes not.

Ever watched Arsenic and Old Lace?

 

[Keroin]

In the time since my computer busted a couple months ago, I've come to realize that I had been spending entirely too much time on computer games in the pursuit of amnesia.... trying to forget that I live with my parents and work in a deli.

Since then I have found I have the time (when I really force myself to) to get away from my computer, get out and go do things... thus I am more than just a deli worker that lives with his parents.

Now I'm a deli worker that lives with his parents, and went sailing three times in the past couple months, horse back riding twice, and hiking eight times. As well I've done some charity work for a former co-worker of mine who has hit dire straights of rescent, helping her remodel a room in her house, as well as using my contacts to hook her up with a few free chiropractic visits for her daughter.

Blah blah blah... I think you get that point.

I think what I was trying to get at there was that doing something was more theraputic than playing computer games... it helped me to identify myself in "real" terms (there's that word again) rather than as a Dwarven Hunter on World of Warcraft. When that was such a vital part of who I was outside of the sevice deli, I found I could hardly stand being apart from it.

This intrigued me. (I also cheered a little inside, to be honest).

So...I'm dead curious now to know how much of your life now is computer life and how much is real life and how do you feel about that?

(And I assume you probably no longer live with your parents and work at a deli, but I could be wrong).

 

[Licia]

I'm curious what you intent was with this warning

'Twas meant as a word of caution after reading through a few of your posts: "it's been a...while", sometimes you crave the high so much, a bad one will suffice, and then something along the lines of abstaining from such activites. Those sentiments can lead to a negative sub frenzy (presumptuousness unintended). I see, though, now, that you are married? The issue of sub frenzy may now cross into the irrelevant. *brow quirk*

Regarding "the panamal canal": *chuckles* Sadly, it was satire. *shrugs* Making jokes is something I do to cope with life, and probably my sadistical crutch. *inserts the Irish "archetype" of making light of the dark*

...kids, which provide constant interruption

My kids love the outdoors, keeping them inside is much like a punishment. Acting silly inspires them into emulation, and that's how I get them to help...rather than hinder. The little guy outside? He goes wild, so another year will pass before he gets free reign with his sisters.

 

[Ropebunny]

Might it ever have been that I was just too sexy?

I think so.

Methinks it's time for you to bite the bullet and start returning some of those blantant gaze held compliments.

I know it's hard - I still push myself to respond - but later, when I'm alone the elation that someone liked the look of me sets in and it makes all the anxiety worth it for a wee while.

 

[ameliajax]

I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, and I know it started years ago, but I was really touched by what I read. Thanks for writing! I'm looking forward to reading more of it!

 

[eastern sun]

What a treat to wake up to this snowy morning.

 

[Ropebunny]

Sometimes I feel like I should color code these posts or something... so that readers may have at least a vague idea of which of the three relationships are which.

It feels like a grave disservice to the ones who's memories I cherish to permit even the possibility of a mix up....

Maybe someday I'll slide a chronological link list in somewhere.

Then again... it's probably not hard to tell, if you really look, particularly in the knowledge that it's mostly those three relationships I mention, and for that mater, at least half of the posts are about one in particular.

Almost 10 years later, and reminiscing about that month still fucks me up. Which in turns makes me wonder; why do I still DO this?

I think that would be a good idea. I have the sneaking suspicion that I'm getting turned on by the recollections of your bad relationship (especially your last post with the ice cube), which is making me feel not so good.

I think we just can't help reminiscing about times of great emotion. It's like human default in terms of remembering. Too bad for those of us that have experienced more bad than good in our lives.

 

[Ropebunny]

There has only been one relationship which I cannot recollect with at least an ounce of fondness. That relationship has but one post on this thread (at least, so far). Knowing that, it's not hard to guess which one.

Every past relationship broke for one reason or another. Every heartache sucks. While bitter memories abound, nostalgia is about finding the sweetness too, and agonizing the more for it's passing.

I literally have no nostalgia, not one even partially fond memory, of the "bad one."

I think going back and retconning a chronological index into one of the early posts may be the way to go... though I'm not promising to get around to it right away. I'll certainly post a link back to it when I do.

You like ice cubes too, eh?

I feel a bit better know. I think I know the post you're refering to and that made me sad instead of aroused, so I'm not totally broken yet!

And ice cubes? I'm big fan of those things.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

This is reaaaally good stuff. Thanks for the cranial skylight.

 

[BiBunny]

This is reaaaally good stuff. Thanks for the cranial skylight.

^^^^What he said^^^^

I think of doing something similar on Lit from time to time, but I always pull back, for fear of making an ass of myself, since I am given to narcissistic melacholy.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I don't really think of any of my writing as cranial skylight inducing... care to elucidate what you found so special?

/milk

No. Not really.






Postmortems are fascinating things. At least they are to me. I'm a sucker for History Channel marathons about world events turning on a few small decisions. Unintended results! Wrong turns! Blind luck!

So I enjoy the peek into your memories, and how you view then, now. It prompted me to review some old emails from an ex. I was surprised at how much insight I gained from re-reading them. I don't know why that would surprise me, exactly.

Carry on!

 

[eastern sun]

One of the things that struck me as perfect about my avatar, and the reason I have stuck with it so stubborn/ lazily over the years, is that the stag depicted is looking back over his shoulder.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

One of the things that struck me as perfect about my avatar, and the reason I have stuck with it so stubborn/ lazily over the years, is that the stag depicted is looking back over his shoulder.

Nice. You never see a Deer Xing sign with that pose.

Maybe that's why they become roadkill.

 

[BiBunny]

*Hugs*

Please, please, please make sure that all physical brain issues are ruled out first and foremost. Schizophrenia is (usually) something that appears fairly early in one's adult life, but brain tumors, strokes, etc. can mimic the symptoms. Since (I assume) you're not in your early to mid 20s, definitely make sure you can rule out all the other things that can cause those symptoms before you allow them to put you on APs and send you home.

That being said, if the problem does turn out to be schizophreniform in nature, you've got lots and lots of options treatment-wise. For example, I've seen Zyprexa knock symptoms out like turning off a light switch in the absolute craziest person I've ever met.

Hang in there. Don't give up. You have lots of options.

 

[Stella_Omega]

AS angry as you've made me, I have also been worried about you. There is no shame in mental health issues, that's just our society being fucked up.

I would love to see you come back with more faculty than you've recently had, Stag. There's a lot that's good in you.

 

[Ropebunny]

I wish I had something profound to say here, but I don't.

I feel that you an I are kindred in some way Stag, and I wish you well on what will hopefully be a journey of self-discovery. Please continue to share, if you feel able. There are things you have mentioned in your first post today that resonate with me and re-open the wellspring of supression and doubt.

I hope that one day I will feel strong enough to be as honest with myself as you are being now.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

First of all, let's let this silliness go about leaving Lit, and not being certain that this community, and its members, are real. We are all astoundingly lifelike. No Matrix here.

Next, listen to Bunny. She is smart and has insights in this area. Get that shit CHECKED.

It must be incredibly disturbing to be experiencing things that aren't so. It would make one lose one's bearings. It would sap one's confidence, and cause the world to feel off kilter.

But you do owe it to yourself to move forward and do what you can. Just move forward and do the next thing. You are a sensitive, kind, thoughtful person, Stag, with a formerly-interesting av. You have a lot to give, to your family and to the world, whether you have schizophrenia or just blanked on "Melody."

 

[BiBunny]

I dread the prospect that my spirituality, even as little as I practice now, is a symptom that can and needs to be remedied with a pill.

I fear as well the thought that those experiences, as rare as they ever were, could be banished as a side effect, in an effort to deal with these memory issues.

Doesn't have to be. I promise.

Also; I remember a little girl's face. I remember her playing with my daughter; but there is no melody. This is straight out of a horror movie.

The financial side of this is just as heartache inducing; we were just on the cusp of getting debt free, and finally talking realistically about saving for a down payment on a house.

Like the scene from UP, where they break their saving jar over and over, except that ours is almost finally emptied of red ink, and we're looking at pouring more in.

Tell yourself what I have to tell myself when I can hardly afford meds or the doctor--I will never get out of debt if I'm too sick to work.