Racism in North-West Europe versus Australia versus America or Canada

[mayfly13]

What are the 'isms' in the US and Canada /or other countries based on?
This isn't a troll or 'poor me' thread, I am genuinely startled and intrigued.


SO:

EVERY country in the world (mine included) has 'isms', based on whatever attributes they think they shine in and make them look superior.

My biggest shock was to find out that some East Asians, who are heavily discriminated against in Western countries, have their own Hitler-esque Han superiority. Not just against people of color or Eastern Europeans, but also against Western Europeans. They look up to Germans, Spaniards and and Italians, tho.


But since I live in a Commonwealth country:
I am startled about how different perceptions in England/Germany versus Australia are.

In NE Europe, one comes across two types of "ism's":
---ism against people born in, or with Asian/Middle Eastern/African features.
Sometimes this comes from a racist place, because these countries DO have a history of colonialism or nationality superiority. But these countries have also become more 'secularized' and open-minded in the 21st century, so in other cases it's based on perceived cultural/ (civilization or moral) flaws.
---ism against Eastern and SE Europe.
Which is based on the stereotype of the uncivilized E European, who is either brutish and a heavy drinker, or a thief or uncultured & eats with their hands.
There is no doubt in their mind tho, that these nations still belong to the same European -White race.

In Australia, tho.... wtf?
Australian-borns of Italian, Greek, SE European and Lebanese origin are often called 'wogs' and considered non-Whites & encounter racism in smaller towns.
Because they aren't as fair skinned as the English or Germans.
Italy, Spain and Greece, the cradles of North-West European civilization.

 

[RoryN]

This isn't a troll or 'poor me' thread

^^^
Pretty sad that you feel a need to say this.

It's a sign you should stop posting.

 

[mayfly13]

^^^
Pretty sad that you feel a need to say this.

It's a sign you should stop posting.

I was referring to the GB, your threads included.

 

[RoryN]

I was referring to the GB, your threads included.

No you weren't.

Nice try, though.

 

[mayfly13]

No you weren't.

Nice try, though.

No, I'm just shocked by how intellectually backward some Australians are, compared to North Western Europeans.
You see racism in England, Germany and China too, but the explanations are far more intellectual.

I don't agree with, but I can understand racism against second and third world countries.

But against Italians and Greeks?
To see them as second class to Australians, because of their darker-White skin color?
If not for Greece and Italy, the entire Europe would be far more backward today.

 

[SissySalina]

So are you saying that everyone is a "racist" is some way?

 

[mayfly13]

No you weren't.

Nice try, though.

Look, this isn't a rivalry who's the most oppressed.

This is 2000% less than what Blacks are going through in many countries, US included.
George Floyd types of killings, housing discrimination and such.
And while Italians and Greeks are STILL seen as a race that is inferior to the Anglo-Saxon one by some Australians, they DON'T face discrimination or violence, like Asians/Aboriginals/Blacks do.

What shocks me is that this hierarchical thinking comes directly from Hitler's or Han Chinese Royalties playbooks.
You DON't see it in other countries that are racist towards Blacks, Asians or whomever.


Only in Nazi Germany one could see such such hierarchical skin tone based classifications.
Pertaining to Europe: Germans were the master race, followed by Brits, Baltic countries, then E/ SE Europeans. Southern Europeans, Italians and Spaniards included were at the bottom.

 

[mayfly13]

I always considered Greek, Italian, Persian and Jewish civilizations to be superior to all others.

Greeks had their own achievements, but they also imported some of their civilization from Persians. Romans had their own, but imported some from Greeks too.

Brits were damn lucky to be conquered by Romans, who spread their civilization there.
Scots and Eastern Europeans were less lucky, so they remained less civilised for centuries, until Westerners started exchanges with them.

And unlike locals, all Jews were literate when they settled in Europe.

 

[mayfly13]

So in a nutshell:

While I disagree with racism against 2nd or 3rdcworld countries, I can understand it's logic.
Because Australia has better infrastructure /hygienic/social systems. They respect rules too, and thus often come across as more civilized.

But their skin-tone based attitude towards Italians and Greeks, who come from the cradle of civilizations, is not only ignorant, but concerning too.
It is basically Nazi White supremacy.

 

[jarigi]

I've lived in Australia for more than 50 years (From UK) and I can say that especially in the fifties when Italians and to a lesser extent Greeks arrived here after the war, there was a prejudice against them as they spoke no English and were prepared to work for little money, taking jobs from the Australian working class. But that was 60-70 years ago and I can say that there is VERY little of that discrimination now towards Italians, as few emigrate here now and most are now 2nd or 3rd generation Aussie. There is some flack for Lebanese, and perhaps Syrian/Middle east Muslim's as there is a small minority, mainly in their 20's, who are aggressively nationalistic and extreme in their religious beliefs as are many Muslim fundamental groups in western countries. There have been some aggressive confrontations over the years, especially the Cronulla, Sydney riots. At the moment, with Covid at the forefront of peoples minds, the Chinese have become the target for racial vilification, I suspect not just in Australia. In short, Italians and Greeks have integrated into Australian culture and are respected in both cities as well as country areas, but Religious extremism and Chinese are in the spotlight. The Aboriginal (Indigenous) population has more recently got a voice from 'white' Aboriginals and it has become more politically charged, where this will go I've no idea.

 

[Champakian]

So are you saying that everyone is a "racist" is some way?

In the eternal struggle over limited resources, people tend to band; rugged individualism
leaves you locked out of the access to resources (including the breeding pool) and
subject to such ostracizations such as the chimera of Racism, but it passes under so
many other names. Therefore, when you participate as part of the group in order to
advance your own self interests, you engage in all sorts of "-isms," no matter how
passively or unintentionally it occurs; the only thing that really matters is a share of
the resources (especially the breeding pool). You may hate the very idea of a thing like
Racism, or any "-ism," but you won't let that hatred go so far as to leave you outside
the safety of the group. Currently, we talk a great game when it comes to equality, but
you note that the loudest voices are the ones least disposed to dispose of the trappings
of their inequality in order to bring someone on the outside into the safety of the group.

 

[Champakian]

So in a nutshell:

While I disagree with racism against 2nd or 3rdcworld countries, I can understand it's logic.
Because Australia has better infrastructure /hygienic/social systems. They respect rules too, and thus often come across as more civilized.

But their skin-tone based attitude towards Italians and Greeks, who come from the cradle of civilizations, is not only ignorant, but concerning too.
It is basically Nazi White supremacy.

All prejudice is not "Nazi..." In fact, I would suggest that very little of it
is actually National Socialism...



Look around, you don't even need to look back, but National Socialism
in its myriad of forms seems to be color blind, uniting by ideology
that which race cannot do. Example: We, in the the US, have a
sizable portion of white people who hate other white people
far more than they could ever bring themselves to
disparage any person of color. It is their
"RED" Badge of Courage...

So to speak...

 

[mayfly13]

I've lived in Australia for more than 50 years (From UK) and I can say that especially in the fifties when Italians and to a lesser extent Greeks arrived here after the war, there was a prejudice against them as they spoke no English and were prepared to work for little money, taking jobs from the Australian working class. But that was 60-70 years ago and I can say that there is VERY little of that discrimination now towards Italians, as few emigrate here now and most are now 2nd or 3rd generation Aussie. There is some flack for Lebanese, and perhaps Syrian/Middle east Muslim's as there is a small minority, mainly in their 20's, who are aggressively nationalistic and extreme in their religious beliefs as are many Muslim fundamental groups in western countries. There have been some aggressive confrontations over the years, especially the Cronulla, Sydney riots. At the moment, with Covid at the forefront of peoples minds, the Chinese have become the target for racial vilification, I suspect not just in Australia. In short, Italians and Greeks have integrated into Australian culture and are respected in both cities as well as country areas, but Religious extremism and Chinese are in the spotlight. The Aboriginal (Indigenous) population has more recently got a voice from 'white' Aboriginals and it has become more politically charged, where this will go I've no idea.

You might be right.

In all fairness, I only became aware of it post - Brett Tarant and after moving from a big city to a small town. In the big city I felt ok.
But in the small town, I found out that in their view, only North-Western Europeans are 'Europeans'. The rest of us aren't really White. And they were classifying the three Eastern Europeans from there according to their skin tone.

I think that you're partially right, in that it's more of a rural mentality, and that people in big cities have a different outlook.

However, I also know that in the early-mid 1900's Irish and Italian immigrants to the US weren't considered White either.

I just wonder: was that a wider spread belief in Germany and England, up to the middle of the 20th century?
I know that it isn't now, but was it 100 years ago?

 

[mayfly13]

In the eternal struggle over limited resources, people tend to band; rugged individualism
leaves you locked out of the access to resources (including the breeding pool) and
subject to such ostracizations such as the chimera of Racism, but it passes under so
many other names. Therefore, when you participate as part of the group in order to
advance your own self interests, you engage in all sorts of "-isms," no matter how
passively or unintentionally it occurs; the only thing that really matters is a share of
the resources (especially the breeding pool). You may hate the very idea of a thing like
Racism, or any "-ism," but you won't let that hatred go so far as to leave you outside
the safety of the group. Currently, we talk a great game when it comes to equality, but
you note that the loudest voices are the ones least disposed to dispose of the trappings
of their inequality in order to bring someone on the outside into the safety of the group.

I think that what's happening in the US is different than Canada and Australia.

Undoubtly, some or many (I don't know the %) Americans are racists towards people of African descent.
But then you have the anti-White BLM and the Left, who's pitting races against each other,

You don't see the Leftist madness outside the US, so over there a bigot is a bigot.

 

[Champakian]

Uh, yeah, no..., people are people.


Nationality does not abrogate basic human nature.

 

[bellisarius]

It is my observation that a great deal of what is attributed to 'racism' is actually 'culturalism.' This is most starkly evident in Africa, S. America, and Asia.

 

[Champakian]

As we've noted before, Racism has been stated not a term that implies
pretty much anything the Left doesn't agree with...

For example (hypothetical), "I don't like the idea of a Vegan diet,
it just doesn't sound all that healthy to me.

"Well, that's because you're RACIST!
"Eating meat is a white thing.

"Then why the hell did my ancestors feast on buffalo?"