Personal Investment in Characters

[MelissaBaby]

I think some writers, myself included, start with a situation and then think about what kind of characters would get themself in this situation whereas other writers (hazarding a guess including you) start with a/some character(s) and then decide what kind of scrapes they're going to get in.

I tend to plan out each piece as a complete story by itself. Often then my characters have usually reached a place (often in each others arms) where I'm content to leave them once I've finished. Not everything needs a sequel and often I'm presenting my first story as 'the most important thing that ever happened to them'. Sometimes there's room for a follow-on, but mostly not.

The story I'm writing at the moment is an exception. It the story of two middle-aged(ish) women who end up having their first ever homosexual relationship. It ends on the morning after the first night and immediately on finishing the first draft, I'm thinking that there's lots of situations for these guys to get into that work as individual stories with each with an individual point.

Absolutely. I generally know a lot more about my characters than what makes it to the finished work.

 

[MelissaBaby]

If you have to care deeply about every character you write about, you aren't writing too dimensionally or deeply.

To me, that comment is so far removed for my perception that I struggle to think of a response. I don't think anyone who reads my stories would say that I don't write "dimensionally and deeply."

I only give my perspective. It is never helpful to make universal proclamations.

 

[SimonDoom]

I hope this doesn't come off glib, but don't understand why anyone would go to all the trouble to create characters that they don't care about deeply.

Every author is different. My general approach is to write characters that have whatever level of depth is needed to suit my story's purposes. Sometimes a "flat" character will do just fine for a story's purpose. I have no interest at all in thinking about what motivates them, or what their history or background or hobbies are, beyond that. Usually this isn't the case with main characters, but it's often true of supporting characters.

I think it's perfectly OK for a story to offer an "impressionist" picture of a character -- a few touches of color and indications of form -- and to let the reader fill in the rest. The key is to be artful about what's revealed and what's not, and that can be hard to do right.

The more I think about it the more I tend to agree with Vladimir Nabokov's view: my story characters are my galley slaves, not my friends.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

But if we breathe life into our characters, how can we not be invested?

 

[MelissaBaby]

Every author is different. My general approach is to write characters that have whatever level of depth is needed to suit my story's purposes. Sometimes a "flat" character will do just fine for a story's purpose. I have no interest at all in thinking about what motivates them, or what their history or background or hobbies are, beyond that. Usually this isn't the case with main characters, but it's often true of supporting characters.

I think it's perfectly OK for a story to offer an "impressionist" picture of a character -- a few touches of color and indications of form -- and to let the reader fill in the rest. The key is to be artful about what's revealed and what's not, and that can be hard to do right.

The more I think about it the more I tend to agree with Vladimir Nabokov's view: my story characters are my galley slaves, not my friends.

As TheRedChamber said, what we know about a character, and what we tell the reader are very often not the same. I think "impressionist" is a pretty good descriptor of how I present my characters, but for me, that works because I know so much about them before I decide what aspects to present to the reader.

 

[nice90sguy]

The main protagonist from my current story actually invaded my dreams just last night! That's happened to me once before, years ago.

I wish I could remember what she said and did in that dream, I think she was there to give me some advice about how I should write her character!

 

[MelissaBaby]

I do like most of my main characters, but not all of them; some of them are just not my type. A couple of the supporting characters are downright assholes whom I really don't like at all, and there's also a number of supporting characters that I might greet each time we'd meet in the supermarket, but whom I wouldn't miss if they'd no longer show up.

Caring for your characters does not necessarily mean liking them, and it certainly doesn't mean you always approve of their actions.

Simon invoked Nabokov. I am sure that he could not have created Humbert Humbert if he was not able to find some ways to empathize with him, even while presenting him as an unsavory character.

 

[NoJo]

A shrink once said to me, "They're all you," referring to the actors in a dream I was relating.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think you and I have different associations with 'to care deeply about'

That may well be the case. My process works for me, but I respect that other people have different perspectives.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I wouldn't say that my characters are old friends, but if you care about your writing then you need to understand your characters' emotions and motives. You can't truly convey your characters to the reader if you do not innately understand the characters' emotions and motives yourself. How will your reader connect to these things if you don't?

If you break down writing to its inner kernel, it's really all about keeping the reader wanting to turn the page. There are many ways to do this, but the strongest is to get the reader invested in either the characters (by conveying emotion) or the plot (by convincing motive), usually both. An immersive setting or clever dialogue will only get you so far.

I'm with Melissa on this. If you do not feel what your characters are feeling (or at least get behind their motives in something more action based) you're kidding yourself.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Every author is different. My general approach is to write characters that have whatever level of depth is needed to suit my story's purposes. Sometimes a "flat" character will do just fine for a story's purpose. I have no interest at all in thinking about what motivates them, or what their history or background or hobbies are, beyond that. Usually this isn't the case with main characters, but it's often true of supporting characters.

I think it's perfectly OK for a story to offer an "impressionist" picture of a character -- a few touches of color and indications of form -- and to let the reader fill in the rest. The key is to be artful about what's revealed and what's not, and that can be hard to do right.

The more I think about it the more I tend to agree with Vladimir Nabokov's view: my story characters are my galley slaves, not my friends.

I feel that it was implied that the discussion was about main, or at least some important/significant characters in stories. Well, at least that is how I understood the whole discussion. Obviously, there are characters who are there to fulfil a certain role, to serve the plot, to give some more nuances to the characters that matter. I don't get attached to those, unless they show up in some later chapters again. Only then, if they somehow grow beyond their initial role, if the story takes me there, I start adding nuances to them, and the possibility of 'attachment' can appear. I realize my experience is limited in this regard, so yeah, ask me again in a year

 

[GrantBricksly]

I missed the contest deadline, so I decided to wait a year before entering it. In the meantime, I decided to write Don and Lanh's back story, and the more I wrote, the more I fell in love with them. I wrote how they met in high school, being the school nerds, they were bullied and picked on by students and teachers. They married and he enlisted and they traveled the world and as I got closer and closer to chapter 11 where Lanh had to die I was actually getting nauseous over the entire idea. I was losing sleep, and I honestly thought my character was angry with me. One by one the chapters were going up in a series I call We're a Wonderful Wife, I even had chapters written on how Karole and Don get their happily ever after once they recover from Lanh's death...

You get it then. This is what Happened to me. I started with a story for the winter holiday contest, but did not get it finished in time. So I decided to keep writing it until it was done. When I finally finished (about halfway through December) I was already committed to that contest. So I decided it would wait a year before being submitted. Now, during that story, Isabelle happened to mention the escapades of their 13th anniversary. I almost added all the details of that to the story...but then thought "wait...that's my Valentines Contest story!" So When I was finished, I began writing that. Then I thought I would pivot to something else for a bit...but my other ideas, while good, all just either didn't fit the next contest, or were becoming too long/complex for me to finish in time. So I came back to Grant and Isabelle. Having written 2 stories already, I was deeply involved with them. And the words have just been flowing easily.

Now, I don't have anything tragic planned, like a death...(well, thats not entirely true...but the death I have planned is not for a MC, it's for someone who hasn't even been introduced yet, and it will only serve to further the plot of a story)

My shorter stories...the ones that are 3k words, have all been quick one and done stories. (I have a few chapter ones) but the character development on those is not great. Just go ahead and ignore my 5 chapter series....I wrote that so long ago...it is horrible...I am still trying to decide if I want to take it down completely, or try to re-write them...I might do both...I might take them down, re-write them, and then re-submit...

 

[GrantBricksly]

Caring for your characters does not necessarily mean liking them, and it certainly doesn't mean you always approve of their actions.

Simon invoked Nabokov. I am sure that he could not have created Humbert Humbert if he was not able to find some ways to empathize with him, even while presenting him as an unsavory character.

I have to agree with you there...one of the stories I am working on right now...not a part of Grant and Isabelle's storyline....I am deeply invested in the characters...but I dare say that I will be accused of having a certain amount of hatred for some of my characters when people read it...Some of the characters are treated quite poorly...and frankly even as i write it, I have trouble dealing with it myself...but it is an essential part of the story. I still care for them. But to do the things I am doing to them........

 

[Duleigh]

You get it then

I definitely get it. For me what started out as a Winter Holiday entry has blossomed into a novel with side stories that participate in the Valentines day contest, April Fools contest, 750 word project, and a Letters of Love challenge, with Nude Day and maybe Halloween under consideration.

 

[GrantBricksly]

I definitely get it. For me what started out as a Winter Holiday entry has blossomed into a novel with side stories that participate in the Valentines day contest, April Fools contest, 750 word project, and a Letters of Love challenge, with Nude Day and maybe Halloween under consideration.

There is a really good chance that I will have an entry in all 6 special contests involving Grant and Isabelle. All leading up to the Winter Holiday story that I wrote.

 

[KeithD]

But if we breathe life into our characters, how can we not be invested?

You don't have to be invested in every character in your story. If your story has any complexity at all there will be some characters there only to move the action in some way. I'm finding this part of this discussion--the thought that you have to care deeply for every character in your story--mindboggling and shallow. Of course you don't. Some of the characters are only here to serve the action. I don't have to know that they had an argument with their Aunt Mathilda that morning.

 

[GrantBricksly]

You don't have to be invested in every character in your story. If your story has any complexity at all there will be some characters there only to move the action in some way. I'm finding this part of this discussion--the thought that you have to care deeply for every character in your story--mindboggling and shallow. Of course you don't. Some of the characters are only here to serve the action. I don't have to know that they had an argument with their Aunt Mathilda that morning.

Of course not. And the main point of the discussion from the beginning was Main Characters. Not secondary ones. There are always going to be minor characters that are just there because you needed someone to fill a role. I literally just had a need to have two secretaries in an office. One of them didn't even get a name. The other did. But neither of them will likely ever be heard from again. They existed for the span of 3-4 paragraphs, because I needed someone for Grant to interact with while he was at the office, and secretaries made sense. I MIGHT add the names one to my list of characters, just in case I ever do a scene in the office, and want to keep my continuity tight...but beyond that..I do not care about them at all. (I could also just have that secretary quit/fired and replaced. No big deal.

No, the question at hand here is the Main Characters and the life we give them through the course of thousands of words, I am nearing 100k words total among the different stories I have written now with Grant and Isabelle. (Mostly unpublished so far) that is a lot of time spent with those characters. So yea, I have definitely given them life. They are real living beings at this point in my mind. I feel as though I could pick up my phone and call them up and talk to them. Not literally, I am not crazy, I know they are not real. But that is how real they FEEL to me.

 

[KeithD]

Of course not. And the main point of the discussion from the beginning was Main Characters.

It slid away from there. The adjective "main" dropped out. It was omitted from the thread title entirely.

And even main characters--"care for deeply." No, sorry, that's naive. You need to understand them to have a good story you use them in, but "care for deeply"? No, that isn't a requirement for a skilled story writer. Let's get real.

 

[GrantBricksly]

It slid away from there. The adjective "main" dropped out. It was omitted from the thread title entirely.

And even main characters--"care for deeply." No, sorry, that's naive. You need to understand them to have a good story you use them in, but "care for deeply"? No, that isn't a requirement for a skilled story writer. Let's get real.

Alright, yes it was not in the thread title...but the actual post made it clear..at least I thought it did. That was certainly my intent.

That being said. I also never said it was a requirement. (I know others have) I simply said that I found myself doing so, and wondered if others did the same.

I don't think it's naïve at all to care about your characters. Perhaps saying "deeply" might go a bit far for some, but that really depends on the type of person you are and how you relate to people in general. My wife does not have "deep" feelings for much of anyone other than family. I on the other hand, am a very loving caring person, and tend to wear my heart of my sleeve. So I might very well care "deeply" for a well developed character, especially one I have created and spend hours and hours (days, weeks, months, etc) working on.

I don't think it has anything to do with skill as a writer at all. I know some people that have amazingly active imaginations that come up with incredibly complex characters in their heads. But they couldn't write a proper sentence to save their lives.

 

[KeithD]

Alright, yes it was not in the thread title...but the actual post made it clear..at least I thought it did. That was certainly my intent.

That being said. I also never said it was a requirement. (I know others have) I simply said that I found myself doing so, and wondered if others did the same.

I don't think it's naïve at all to care about your characters. Perhaps saying "deeply" might go a bit far for some, but that really depends on the type of person you are and how you relate to people in general. My wife does not have "deep" feelings for much of anyone other than family. I on the other hand, am a very loving caring person, and tend to wear my heart of my sleeve. So I might very well care "deeply" for a well developed character, especially one I have created and spend hours and hours (days, weeks, months, etc) working on.

I don't think it has anything to do with skill as a writer at all. I know some people that have amazingly active imaginations that come up with incredibly complex characters in their heads. But they couldn't write a proper sentence to save their lives.

Then clearly we don't agree on what a writer can do in writing a good story. I certainly don't think a proficient writer has to be "care" invested in the characters in his/her stories (and don't move the goalposts--my posts were clearly responding to "cares deeply" and to a statement that didn't specify main characters. They weren't even directed to you). This level of required investment is amateurish fantasy, not constructive guidance to new story writers.

 

[GrantBricksly]

Then clearly we don't agree on what a writer can do in writing a good story. I certainly don't think a proficient writer has to be "care" invested in the characters in his/her stories (and don't move the goalposts--my posts were clearly responding to "cares deeply" and to a statement that didn't specify main characters. They weren't even directed to you). This level of required investment is amateurish fantasy, not constructive guidance to new story writers.

Ok, I wasn't trying to "move the goalposts" for you...I was trying to steer the conversation back to my original post. Since it was supposed to be about main characters, I was trying to bring it back to that. Your post just happened to be a good jumping off point to do that from. Meant no disrespect.

 

[KeithD]

Ok, I wasn't trying to "move the goalposts" for you...I was trying to steer the conversation back to my original post. Since it was supposed to be about main characters, I was trying to bring it back to that. Your post just happened to be a good jumping off point to do that from. Meant no disrespect.

Happy to leave it there. I responded to your original post with a "yes" in post #8.

 

[GrantBricksly]

Happy to leave it there. I responded to your original post with a "yes" in post #8.

I saw. And with the amount of writing you do, I was glad to know that it happened for you as well. It may not be needed, but as you said in that post, when the characters start popping up in multiple stories over time, it's hard not to feel a certain level of familiarity with them.

 

[oneagainst]

Oh no...my characters have taken on a life of their own. I have tried a few times to set a scene, and before I'm even 2-3 paragraphs into it, the characters have made it clear that my idea was just that, an idea. They say "nope, this is what really happened, let us tell you about it..."

Yeah. Get that a lot, which is pretty strange if you analyse it too much...? An ensemble story with half a dozen characters turns into an exercise in cat herding, because you know when you're forcing something through that the characters don't want.

I'm invested in the characters... I think it's the only way to write good stories, where readers see how they feel. As an aside, I ended up writing Critical Response in Humour/Satire three stories into the story arc to give Lily a chance to step outside the story and basically give me shit on my writing style.

 

[GrantBricksly]

Yeah. Get that a lot, which is pretty strange if you analyse it too much...? An ensemble story with half a dozen characters turns into an exercise in cat herding, because you know when you're forcing something through that the characters don't want.

I'm invested in the characters... I think it's the only way to write good stories, where readers see how they feel. As an aside, I ended up writing Critical Response in Humour/Satire three stories into the story arc to give Lily a chance to step outside the story and basically give me shit on my writing style.

I don't know about "the only way to write good stories" but it certainly does make for good stories I think.