Pantsers - what do you actually know about your story when you start writing?

[Voboy]

This is one of my favourite parts of writing - discovering who the characters are.

Unless...

I'm having a fun time writing my holiday entry, except that it turns out all the characters are fucking loathsome assholes.

I'm wondering whether I can redeem any of them. It's a fun story to write, and I still think it's good, but they seem to have gotten together and decided they want the story to be a noir piece. I'm not usually into noir, so I'm not sure where it's going.

Sigh. Whatever. We'll see where it ends up.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

I’m currently about 80% or so through a story that I’ve planned more extensively than anything else I’ve written, and realizing that I’ve probably made the plot way too complicated.

Trying to decide If I’m going to push through to the ending then try to fix it, go back and fix it before writing the ending, or maybe just shove it into a drawer…

 

[ElectricBlue]

I’m currently about 80% or so through a story that I’ve planned more extensively than anything else I’ve written, and realizing that I’ve probably made the plot way too complicated.

Trying to decide If I’m going to push through to the ending then try to fix it, go back and fix it before writing the ending, or maybe just shove it into a drawer…

If you're that far into, you can't stop now. Continue, you bastard, otherwise you'll turn into Simon with one of his unfinished stories .

 

[Bubo_bubo]

If you're that far into, you can't stop now. Continue, you bastard, otherwise you'll turn into Simon with one of his unfinished stories .

Or another author with a number of "Unfinished Tales".
(Each time I see your user name David Bowie's "Sound and Vision" tries to crawl out of the back of my mind).

 

[ElectricBlue]

Or another author with a number of "Unfinished Tales".
(Each time I see your user name David Bowie's "Sound and Vision" tries to crawl out of the back of my mind).

Never heard that connection before.

Most people think of Iva Davies and Icehouse, who had a great song, Electric Blue.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

That song was probably the first time I heard the expression electric blue. Sung by Bowie. Yeah, it stayed.
Blue Blue Electric Blue

And despite being a child of the eighties, never heard of Icehouse (it seems they weren't particularly big in Europe).

 

[ElectricBlue]

That song was probably the first time I heard the expression electric blue. Sung by Bowie. Yeah, it stayed.
Blue Blue Electric Blue

And despite being a child of the eighties, never heard of Icehouse (it seems they weren't particularly big in Europe).

Probably true - they were a successful Oz band who didn't crack it overseas, unlike INXS (who were a few years later).

I don't actually have Sound and Vision, despite loving Low, Station to Station, and Heroes. Don't know why not.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

Probably true - they were a successful Oz band who didn't crack it overseas, unlike INXS (who were a few years later).

I don't actually have Sound and Vision, despite loving Low, Station to Station, and Heroes. Don't know why not.

???
'Sound and Vision' is one of the tracks on 'Low'.

 

[Voboy]

If you're that far into, you can't stop now. Continue, you bastard, otherwise you'll turn into Simon with one of his unfinished stories .

I've stopped stories when I was more like 90% finished. I've stopped others at 99%. If you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. Move along; words are cheap.

 

[ElectricBlue]

???
'Sound and Vision' is one of the tracks on 'Low'.

Isn't it an album name, too? It's been years since I've listened to Bowie's earlier work. I played Blackstar to death, though - then went away and bought a bunch of Donny McCaslin's other albums.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I've stopped stories when I was more like 90% finished. I've stopped others at 99%. If you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. Move along; words are cheap.

EML knows I'm not taking prisoners! He'll finish it, he can't help himself - you'll see .

 

[TheRedChamber]

Isn't it an album name, too? It's been years since I've listened to Bowie's earlier work. I played Blackstar to death, though - then went away and bought a bunch of Donny McCaslin's other albums.

It was apparently a box set compilation.

I’m currently about 80% or so through a story that I’ve planned more extensively than anything else I’ve written, and realizing that I’ve probably made the plot way too complicated.

Trying to decide If I’m going to push through to the ending then try to fix it, go back and fix it before writing the ending, or maybe just shove it into a drawer…

I'm curious about what you link makes a plot too complicated. If you've already written 80% of it (good or bad) it can't be that it's too difficult to write. Confusing for the reader or to contrieved or...

This is coming from someone who loves a good intricate Faberge Egg plot with as many revelations, reversals, recontextualizaton, foreshadowning and framing devices as I can fit in. That said, I am currently, in addition to my work on 'the beast', trying to write a series of short stories based on the premise of 'She likes him so she fucks him' (and currently having to fight off the urge to have an extended section afterwards where her father bursts in with a shotgun...)

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

It was apparently a box set compilation.


I'm curious about what you link makes a plot too complicated. If you've already written 80% of it (good or bad) it can't be that it's too difficult to write. Confusing for the reader or to contrieved or...

This is coming from someone who loves a good intricate Faberge Egg plot with as many revelations, reversals, recontextualizaton, foreshadowning and framing devices as I can fit in. That said, I am currently, in addition to my work on 'the beast', trying to write a series of short stories based on the premise of 'She likes him so she fucks him' (and currently having to fight off the urge to have an extended section afterwards where her father bursts in with a shotgun...)

Complex backstory for the characters, a side plot that relates to the main relationships but still jerks us away from the romance in a way that I can’t tell if it helps build tension or if it’s just distracting. A trusted reader told me that the first few pages were confusing as these relationships, back stories, and plot elements were all introduced, so I need to think about either removing some complexities or slowing down the beginning of the story somehow to give things some breathing room.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Complex backstory for the characters, a side plot that relates to the main relationships but still jerks us away from the romance in a way that I can’t tell if it helps build tension or if it’s just distracting. A trusted reader told me that the first few pages were confusing as these relationships, back stories, and plot elements were all introduced, so I need to think about either removing some complexities or slowing down the beginning of the story somehow to give things some breathing room.

Fair enough. I like my characters to start simple and have complex things happen to them during the story. Backstory is easy to get bogged down in and too much too soon can be a problem in a narrative. You'll get it all straight eventually (or not depending on your category...).

 

[Mnkinkcpl]

I'm a mix of the two.

I tend to "Write" the stories in my head while doing mundane stuff at work or while driving. Then when I actually have time I will put pen to paper, rarely will I start with the entire story planned out.

Mostly I have a beginning and maybe a end but very rarely a middle.

As of this moment I have exactly twenty stories in the works some have been sitting for years ago others just a few days.

 

[EnonEMoose]

I am perhaps a little similar Mnkinkcpl. At least that is with the first story I am writing here on Lit. I used to write fairly short stories in the past some years ago and they were planned and written quickly so it all happened pretty much on the run. With the story I am putting on here now I know where it starts, I am pretty sure I know where it ends, I know additional characters I will bring in and know their background, it is the middle I am coming up with and how the various interactions will come together to meet the end I have in mind for the poor female lead. So basically I know where A is and where Z is, but the other letters in the alphabet I am trying to get worked out and then in the right order.

It is like when I leave somewhere in my car and know where I want to go but have no map and so just tend to follow the roads that seem to go in the right direction.

 

[Thefireflies]

... If you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. Move along; words are cheap.

Agree. After about 4.5k words I’m at that point of giving up on the story I started pantsing a month ago, where I’m no longer feeling it and have little inclination to sit and work on it. I could keep writing and probably finish it, but because I don’t feel it, I don’t see the point. I sense I could try and plot and plan it and turn it into something interesting, but I have other story ideas I’d rather pursue.

 

[Voboy]

Agree. After about 4.5k words I’m at that point of giving up on the story I started pantsing a month ago, where I’m no longer feeling it and have little inclination to sit and work on it. I could keep writing and probably finish it, but because I don’t feel it, I don’t see the point. I sense I could try and plot and plan it and turn it into something interesting, but I have other story ideas I’d rather pursue.

Just today, I took another look at a story I started and then abandoned some years ago. I've already got about 13,000 words written, and I still think the plot idea should make a good story... except that, somehow, it doesn't. It didn't when I abandoned it, and in looking critically at it today? It still doesn't.

Oh well. On to the next one.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Just today, I took another look at a story I started and then abandoned some years ago. I've already got about 13,000 words written, and I still think the plot idea should make a good story... except that, somehow, it doesn't. It didn't when I abandoned it, and in looking critically at it today? It still doesn't.

Oh well. On to the next one.

The one that’s giving me headaches is currently sitting around 30k words, which is a lot for me given that my writing time is constrained by work and a small person who needs lots of attention. Dunno if I can just let it go…

 

[ElectricBlue]

The one that’s giving me headaches is currently sitting around 30k words, which is a lot for me given that my writing time is constrained by work and a small person who needs lots of attention. Dunno if I can just let it go…

The way you're going, the small person will become a larger person and can finish it for you. You should swap procrastination notes with Simon, and I can cut by half the number of my smart ass responses.

But hey, I've got your back .

 

[Voboy]

The one that’s giving me headaches is currently sitting around 30k words, which is a lot for me given that my writing time is constrained by work and a small person who needs lots of attention. Dunno if I can just let it go…

I think the one I'm talking about could be finished fairly speedily, and it might even score decently.

But I won't like it, and I only post what I like. Are your problems minor ones, or major ones? 30k is, indeed, a lot of time...

 

[Emilymcplugger]

The one that’s giving me headaches is currently sitting around 30k words, which is a lot for me given that my writing time is constrained by work and a small person who needs lots of attention. Dunno if I can just let it go…

30 thousand is a lot of words.

I'm currently around 30 thousand words on HOT AND FUZZY. It's about seven parts long and I'm currently in between parts 3 and 4, adding a little bit when I get chance.

Have you tried writing the later bits that you know are coming to force yourself to sort the earlier bits out?

 

[Rob_Royale]

I'm very much a planner. I do the occasional note on the plot, a particular story hook that I want to make sure I don't forget to include. I write down all character names on a note app on my phone and I will do research on a plot device if necessary. My next story will require a bit of that. I plan the sex scenes, who's in them, and the order in which they will fall in the story, but not the details of the scene. That I prefer to do, spontaneously as I write. Spontaneous sex has always been better in my experience than something planned.

 

[MetaBob]

I am perhaps a little similar Mnkinkcpl. At least that is with the first story I am writing here on Lit. I used to write fairly short stories in the past some years ago and they were planned and written quickly so it all happened pretty much on the run. With the story I am putting on here now I know where it starts, I am pretty sure I know where it ends, I know additional characters I will bring in and know their background, it is the middle I am coming up with and how the various interactions will come together to meet the end I have in mind for the poor female lead. So basically I know where A is and where Z is, but the other letters in the alphabet I am trying to get worked out and then in the right order.

It is like when I leave somewhere in my car and know where I want to go but have no map and so just tend to follow the roads that seem to go in the right direction.

Pretty similar to my process. I start with an idea and a general direction for where it's going and where it'll finish. I create the characters. Then, often having no idea how they'll get from Point A to Point Z, I trust them to tell me. What motivates them? I try to listen. I wrangle their stories if/when they stray too far. But truly, they're writing the story by then; all I'm doing is typing. Yeah, sometimes I disagree, and (guess what?) I get the deciding vote. But, really, I can't not listen. Because it's their story. I'm just the keyboard guy.

 

[onehitwanda]

Have you tried writing the later bits that you know are coming to force yourself to sort the earlier bits out?

Sometimes when I'm struggling with part of the story - I write the end, or how I currently see the end at least.

Often that shakes something loose. Sometimes it even makes me rewrite or reorder other bits of the existing story that the ending has made awkward.

(I love that word, awkward. It's so awkward.)