Opinions wanted on BDSM story

[gunhilltrain]

Having now read the story, I find I like it for the same reasons others here aren't happy with.

Not sure what that says about me, or them, but it doesn't matter.

I gave it a five.

Thank you! I just posted a couple of replies above that you might find interesting, especially the linked articles.

P.S.: I wasn't trying to "demonize" prostitutes, although I have no respect for pimps.

 

[lovecraft68]

As I suggested to TheRedChamber above, the only reason a prostitute makes a customer feel comfortable is to get a repeat customer. I left out the real bad guys in this scene, the pimps and a few madams. Nora is worried about a pimp or a cop eventually finding her. Most of what is in these articles could have been said by Nora. But I do get why this might no be scintillating material on Lit.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/24/sex-workers-explain-why-dont-want-clients-please-13033199/

https://www.vice.com/en/article/9b8vev/every-type-of-client-ive-encountered-as-a-sex-worker

These are just what I found first. There are tons of things like this online

Long story short there is a service called GFE-girl friend experience. Some providers offer it, some don't, and there are levels of it. There are guys who specifically look for a woman who offers it, because they want a little attention and some affection with the sexual act they're paying for.

But... not everyone woman offers it, not every guy wants it.

The escort game is a lot more complicated than people think, and these women are women, or more accurately they're people.

There's some days where being enthusiastic about sucking or fucking for a living just isn't going to happen.

So again, I saw and applauded what I consider a realistic view.

Because let me tell you, paying for sex-getting paid for sex-is not always the hot fantasy, but often a very empty experience that can leave both parties feeling different forms of regret soon after the session is over.

I'm a wallow in darkness sort, so I got something out of this other people may not have.

 

[lovecraft68]

P.S.: I wasn't trying to "demonize" prostitutes, although I have no respect for pimps.

I didn't say that, or see that, at all.

Best way I can say what I took from this is sometimes a story can take what's usually a fun fantasy, and instead slap the reader with something they didn't expect, like reality.

I've done this multiple times in taboo, toss in the occasional reminder that as much as we like the fantasy here, this shit is not right, and this is what can happen.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I didn't say that, or see that, at all.

Best way I can say what I took from this is sometimes a story can take what's usually a fun fantasy, and instead slap the reader with something they didn't expect, like reality.

I've done this multiple times in taboo, toss in the occasional reminder that as much as we like the fantasy here, this shit is not right, and this is what can happen.

I think I understood that. I was thinking of that long recent thread in AH that I think was titled "Demonizing Sex Workers."

Yeah, the readers. As has been said here many times, they can be very unpredictable.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I had a look at the story again. Going a bit deeper, I guess you could analyze Nora's three fantasies as embodying 1) fear of getting caught by the police 2) the fact that she gets treated like shit in an 'ordinary' job as well 3) anger at past relationships? (maybe, I struggled with this one and she left him). It could be inferred that her fantasies are more about her emotional turmoil than they are about escapism. So, while I hate the phrase 'literary merit' there's probably more to the story than I originally gave credit for.

Yet it's difficult to write about prostitutes without getting close to misery porn.

From what I know, prostitutes are generally not fun people to be around. A "good prostitute to visit" is probably faking it, even if she is charging a large amount as a call girl or the "girlfriend experience." There is a porn trope that prostitutes love sex and that probably would do well on Lit. My guess is that is a small minority, and most of them are doing it because they want or need money (drug addiction or poverty).

The AH has kind of done 'prostitution in stories' both with the Demonization thread and the whole EmillyMillergate thing recently. Obviously, the whole "Happy Hooker" thing is a complete myth, but for those who are into bubblegum-porn fine - that wasn't really what I meant about your story. There are also 'A good prostitute' stories - she's definitely faking it, but, yes, she is selling an experience and that experience is probably erotic enough to carry a full Literotica story.

I'd argue that your title 'Fantasies of a Young Dominatix' does kind of prime the reader for a happy hooker story.

Nora doesn't fit the mold. I'd say that because you've taken out the pimps and the financial desperation, it's not entirely clear from the story why she's doing this. She wants out, but there's not a lot of movement in the story for her to get out. That makes her hard to root for in this chapter. She's kind of wallowing in a status quo she doesn't like. But for all that she's also very in control of what she will and won't do, and I didn't really get what kind of prostitute she's supposed to be - she'd do anal but not vaginal, on page one it says she'll do oral but then on page two she's definitely not doing it. There's also the dom/prostitute split, you're sending me articles about street-walkers, she does indeed seem to solicit someone in public in her fantasies, but dommes are a niche market, there would be more complicated arrangements for this surely? (Not an expert on the 1970s US scene) In anycase she comes across as the last type of prostitute I'd ever want to visit. (And, yeah, sure she probably wouldn't think much of me either.) Perhaps she's a better dominatrix, if Lovecraft likes the attitude, but I'm not sure, I'd prefer playful scorn rather than real indifferent scorn. Nora's is comes across as intelligent and educated and I think exactly because you've moved the pimps and sanded off some of the rough edges, her plight isn't quite strong enough to make her fully pitiable and have the audience really root for her to make her escape. As a result the story just kind of exists in this middle-ground.

I will go back to an initial point. If the character were male, he'd be "dark and brooding" and the sub would have to try harder to please him..,swoon.

Its clear the readership, much like some 'men' in real life hold women to a higher ideal. They can be miserable jerks, but don't ever let a woman be that way. They're too be happy whores only.

I'll agree here in that I don't go in for brooding heroes of either gender. Unhappy, but trying to make sense of life, sure. Flat out arseholes, not so much.

As I suggested to TheRedChamber above, the only reason a prostitute makes a customer feel comfortable is to get a repeat customer.

I'll bite on this and the articles.

First of all, 'The only reason a restaurant makes an edible meal is to get a repeat customer' That's why restaurants around tourist spots tends to suck so much. One of the articles mentions performing for the customer. It's making the point that the girls aren't getting pleasure from it, sure, but it's also interesting that the article seems to take it as read that girls shouldn't have to perform. It's extra labour on top of the service they are providing. What's interesting about this is, if you think about same Cam work, it's pretty obvious that this is what the girls are doing - a performance. I wouldn't think people would question the idea that the girls who give a better illusion of enjoying self-pleasure on ********** would be more financially successful than the girls who technically do what was tipped for but with all the enthusiasm of a wet sock. Why isn't the same thing true of prostitutes. A blowjob with eye-contact is a more luxury service than a robotic blowjob. The other article does the whole, there are a whole bunch of different types of customer, but they're all awful. Yes, the Richard Gere types who think the girls are going to either cum or fall in love with them or both are probably exhausting, but for a career sex worker, repeat customers are probably the goal - you know they are safe, they know what you will and won't do (though they may test the boundaries as you get 'closer'), they're a good stream of steady income.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I had a look at the story again. Going a bit deeper, I guess you could analyze Nora's three fantasies as embodying 1) fear of getting caught by the police 2) the fact that she gets treated like shit in an 'ordinary' job as well 3) anger at past relationships? (maybe, I struggled with this one and she left him). It could be inferred that her fantasies are more about her emotional turmoil than they are about escapism. So, while I hate the phrase 'literary merit' there's probably more to the story than I originally gave credit for.




The AH has kind of done 'prostitution in stories' both with the Demonization thread and the whole EmillyMillergate thing recently. Obviously, the whole "Happy Hooker" thing is a complete myth, but for those who are into bubblegum-porn fine - that wasn't really what I meant about your story. There are also 'A good prostitute' stories - she's definitely faking it, but, yes, she is selling an experience and that experience is probably erotic enough to carry a full Literotica story.

I'd argue that your title 'Fantasies of a Young Dominatix' does kind of prime the reader for a happy hooker story.

Nora doesn't fit the mold. I'd say that because you've taken out the pimps and the financial desperation, it's not entirely clear from the story why she's doing this. She wants out, but there's not a lot of movement in the story for her to get out. That makes her hard to root for in this chapter. She's kind of wallowing in a status quo she doesn't like. But for all that she's also very in control of what she will and won't do, and I didn't really get what kind of prostitute she's supposed to be - she'd do anal but not vaginal, on page one it says she'll do oral but then on page two she's definitely not doing it. There's also the dom/prostitute split, you're sending me articles about street-walkers, she does indeed seem to solicit someone in public in her fantasies, but dommes are a niche market, there would be more complicated arrangements for this surely? (Not an expert on the 1970s US scene) In anycase she comes across as the last type of prostitute I'd ever want to visit. (And, yeah, sure she probably wouldn't think much of me either.) Perhaps she's a better dominatrix, if Lovecraft likes the attitude, but I'm not sure, I'd prefer playful scorn rather than real indifferent scorn. Nora's is comes across as intelligent and educated and I think exactly because you've moved the pimps and sanded off some of the rough edges, her plight isn't quite strong enough to make her fully pitiable and have the audience really root for her to make her escape. As a result the story just kind of exists in this middle-ground.


I'll agree here in that I don't go in for brooding heroes of either gender. Unhappy, but trying to make sense of life, sure. Flat out arseholes, not so much.


I'll bite on this and the articles.

First of all, 'The only reason a restaurant makes an edible meal is to get a repeat customer' That's why restaurants around tourist spots tends to suck so much. One of the articles mentions performing for the customer. It's making the point that the girls aren't getting pleasure from it, sure, but it's also interesting that the article seems to take it as read that girls shouldn't have to perform. It's extra labour on top of the service they are providing. What's interesting about this is, if you think about same Cam work, it's pretty obvious that this is what the girls are doing - a performance. I wouldn't think people would question the idea that the girls who give a better illusion of enjoying self-pleasure on ********** would be more financially successful than the girls who technically do what was tipped for but with all the enthusiasm of a wet sock. Why isn't the same thing true of prostitutes. A blowjob with eye-contact is a more luxury service than a robotic blowjob. The other article does the whole, there are a whole bunch of different types of customer, but they're all awful. Yes, the Richard Gere types who think the girls are going to either cum or fall in love with them or both are probably exhausting, but for a career sex worker, repeat customers are probably the goal - you know they are safe, they know what you will and won't do (though they may test the boundaries as you get 'closer'), they're a good stream of steady income.

This is getting pretty deep. I've never hired a prostitute but I have seen them on the street and even met one by accident as I related in that taxi essay (1978 I think it was). As I mentioned to lovecraft in the comments, there are all kinds of people, male and female, in the "sex industry" doing all kinds of jobs. It's hard to generalize about them all.

I've also been around Lit enough (six years) that I know that scores and comments can vary a lot and be very unpredictable. Many of the writers here just advocate following your own muse and then seeing what happens.