Opinions wanted on BDSM story

[gunhilltrain]

I don't think I've asked for feedback on this board for a couple of years, at least. So, if I get a low score on a story, I just take my lumps. But I'd like to know why, by the third day, no one has voted on this story at all. Being criticized is one thing; being ignored is another. Also, the previous two stories (links at top of text) did pretty well. There are also many other stories with the same character that generally did well.

Fantasies of a Young Dominatrix

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I'll give your story a read when I catch some time and will give you some feedback. Before I even start reading, I can tell you that femdom stories do not catch much attention on Lit so don't be surprised that your story was mostly ignored as you say. I am speaking from my own experience since I write femdom too. Anyway, I'll throw you some feedback when I get time, which probably won't be before tomorrow

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'll give your story a read when I catch some time and will give you some feedback. Before I even start reading, I can tell you that femdom stories do not catch much attention on Lit so don't be surprised that your story was mostly ignored as you say. I am speaking from my own experience since I write femdom too. Anyway, I'll throw you some feedback when I get time, which probably won't be before tomorrow

Actually, it's both femdom and maledom; the story is three of this woman's fantasies, with the first one being woman on woman, the second being male domination, and the third being female domination. Yes, she is a part-time dominatrix in real life. The previous two stories mentioned have details about her work as an amateur and then as a semi-professional and they were well-received.

I have wondered: aren't those fantasies within a fantasy? All stories, being fiction, could qualify as fantasies, in the case of Lit that of the writers. Anyway, thanks!

 

[lovecraft68]

I'll give you a quick hit with barely a glance.

Its a female domme. Which of course belongs in BDSM, but the category has slowly been pushing anything female dom out and bullying them into fetish.

Swap this to the perspective of a male dom and it would fare better.

If you do a similar piece go to fetish. The male readership there can handle a woman being the top.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'll give you a quick hit with barely a glance.

Its a female domme. Which of course belongs in BDSM, but the category has slowly been pushing anything female dom out and bullying them into fetish.

Swap this to the perspective of a male dom and it would fare better.

If you do a similar piece go to fetish. The male readership there can handle a woman being the top.

Thanks! A few thoughts.

1. As I mentioned above, the previous stories about her, some of them told in first-person, generally did quite well. Two such stories are mentioned in the text at the top. I don't think I've ever put anything in fetish before, but I guess that was an option.

2. Second, the guys she's dominating are paying her for the privilege.

3. I think this does happen in reality. Many of them become sexually aroused during the session. When she was an amateur - as long as they paid extra ("I'm running a business here.") - she might bring them to a climax afterwards (usually with her hands or mouth). As a semi-professional, they can masturbate later while she watches - as long as they pay for it as I said

4. She makes it clear that she is a switch. In two of her fantasies (I guess even prostitutes, of which dominatrices are a subgroup, have fantasies) she is the submissive, bottom, victim, or whatever term makes sense. In the third one she is dominant.

Also, see the four stories in this series:

College Hooking Memories Ch. 01

 

[TheRedChamber]

I'd been meaning to read the story since it popped up in my feed and this thread got me off my butt to actually do it. The question asked is not if the story is any good or not, but why people aren't voting (or commenting on it at all). Two possibilities then a) they're not finishing the story of b) they're finishing the story but not developing a strong enough feeling towards it to vote.

(Actually it seems like it's currently rated at 2 stars, ouch!)

I'm not sure if @lovecraft68 's comment about female domme's doing worse is actually true (although come to think of it, my one femdom story did get lower scores than most of my maledom stories) - but I think there's an important issue with your story - you specifically say Nora is not a submissive but then your first fantasy has her getting roundly spanked. People wanting a femsub will stop reading and then people wanting a femdom will stop reading.

The story is also quite a weird set up. There's a whole bunch of frankly quite workaday stuff about Nora's financial situation and attitude towards being a domme before it cuts to a pure fantasy of government corporal punishment. All stories on Lit are fantasies of a kind (even those professing to be true stories) - but there's a layer of remoteness here, we're explicitly told that all the sexy times are just in Nora's imagination which might mean people are finding it harder to get invested.

The other thing is because these are pure fantasies, there's not really a narrative through-line to the whole piece. It would be very easy to read fantasy 1 and 2 and then decide to skip fantasy 3 becuase there's no burning desire to find out how it end. Plus Nora is switching again - she's back in the domme roll for this last episode.

I quite enjoyed the piece but it's a bit unusual in quite a few was and maybe scared people off before the end.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I've read some other stories about the same character. The character comes out as cynical and hateful.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'd been meaning to read the story since it popped up in my feed and this thread got me off my butt to actually do it. The question asked is not if the story is any good or not, but why people aren't voting (or commenting on it at all). Two possibilities then a) they're not finishing the story of b) they're finishing the story but not developing a strong enough feeling towards it to vote.

(Actually it seems like it's currently rated at 2 stars, ouch!)

I'm not sure if @lovecraft68 's comment about female domme's doing worse is actually true (although come to think of it, my one femdom story did get lower scores than most of my maledom stories) - but I think there's an important issue with your story - you specifically say Nora is not a submissive but then your first fantasy has her getting roundly spanked. People wanting a femsub will stop reading and then people wanting a femdom will stop reading.

The story is also quite a weird set up. There's a whole bunch of frankly quite workaday stuff about Nora's financial situation and attitude towards being a domme before it cuts to a pure fantasy of government corporal punishment. All stories on Lit are fantasies of a kind (even those professing to be true stories) - but there's a layer of remoteness here, we're explicitly told that all the sexy times are just in Nora's imagination which might mean people are finding it harder to get invested.

The other thing is because these are pure fantasies, there's not really a narrative through-line to the whole piece. It would be very easy to read fantasy 1 and 2 and then decide to skip fantasy 3 becuase there's no burning desire to find out how it end. Plus Nora is switching again - she's back in the domme roll for this last episode.

I quite enjoyed the piece but it's a bit unusual in quite a few was and maybe scared people off before the end.

Thanks for your feedback. She started as a character in a single stand-alone story and now there are, I think, eighteen stories directly about or narrated by her. The ones about prostitution, although explicit, are not truly "sexy" because I don't think prostitution itself is very sexy. I think she is accurate when she says that women don't go into it because they like sex per se, but rather that they want or need the money. A secondary consideration, mostly for dominatrices, is that it is satisfying as a power trip.

So yeah, veering off into her fantasies was a somewhat risky move. I think the point was that, in this second foray into "The Life" (she thinks that dominatrices are a subset of prostitution), she is conflicted about the benefits versus the downsides of both her 1973 and her 1976 decisions to go into it.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I've read some other stories about the same character. The character comes out as cynical and hateful.

Thanks for your input. Not every story with her involves prostitution, but is was a big part of her life in two different years (each period being about ten months). I wouldn't call her hateful, but she is definitely very insecure about her own social, personal, and sexual worth. Being a working class person from western Queens often bothers her.

At the same time, she is also quite intelligent and articulate. When she recognizes that, she has an "up" period in her life. Then at other times she admits to having something like a mental breakdown, like when she first arrived at college. It struck me that I might diagnose her as being somewhat bi-polar.

P.S.: In one of her down periods, she calls herself "weird and twisted." At other times she admits to being lonely and depressed.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Well, I'll give you my best guess as to why there isn't much reaction from readers... I'll try to be as brief as possible.

- There is no actual sex in the story and even the paddling scenes are more clinical than sexual or arousing. There is no description of anyone's arousal, there are no moans of pleasure, no getting into the scene sexually.
- You narrate a lot... like really a lot and you are very detailed about it so it gets a bit tedious at moments, especially at the start where you do quite a bit of exposition. There is a lot of "telling" throughout the story and not much "showing"

If I had to guess, I would say that not many readers found the story erotic and arousing; it felt more like a documentary to me, with a lot of details and facts being mentioned. And I guess people expected some proper BDSM scenes with moans and cries and orgasms. That is my best guess, but I could also be clueless here

 

[gunhilltrain]

Well, I'll give you my best guess as to why there isn't much reaction from readers... I'll try to be as brief as possible.

- There is no actual sex in the story and even the paddling scenes are more clinical than sexual or arousing. There is no description of anyone's arousal, there are no moans of pleasure, no getting into the scene sexually.
- You narrate a lot... like really a lot and you are very detailed about it so it gets a bit tedious at moments, especially at the start where you do quite a bit of exposition. There is a lot of "telling" throughout the story and not much "showing"

If I had to guess, I would say that not many readers found the story erotic and arousing; it felt more like a documentary to me, with a lot of details and facts being mentioned. And I guess people expected some proper BDSM scenes with moans and cries and orgasms. That is my best guess, but I could also be clueless here

Probably it was more of documentary than an arousing story. But I did fairly well in most of the other Nora stories (it seems like in all but two of the other seventeen). Nora herself is pretty verbose, which may have been what I was aiming to show. But, yeah, I could have cut some of the exposition. In fact, while rereading some of the stories, I noticed that I was repeating stuff that she (or I) had already said elsewhere.

Anyway, at the moment it's at 2.67. But of course, I don't care about scores until they go awry, right? Interesting feedback, thanks.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'd been meaning to read the story since it popped up in my feed and this thread got me off my butt to actually do it. The question asked is not if the story is any good or not, but why people aren't voting (or commenting on it at all). Two possibilities then a) they're not finishing the story of b) they're finishing the story but not developing a strong enough feeling towards it to vote.

(Actually it seems like it's currently rated at 2 stars, ouch!)

I'm not sure if @lovecraft68 's comment about female domme's doing worse is actually true (although come to think of it, my one femdom story did get lower scores than most of my maledom stories) - but I think there's an important issue with your story - you specifically say Nora is not a submissive but then your first fantasy has her getting roundly spanked. People wanting a femsub will stop reading and then people wanting a femdom will stop reading.

The story is also quite a weird set up. There's a whole bunch of frankly quite workaday stuff about Nora's financial situation and attitude towards being a domme before it cuts to a pure fantasy of government corporal punishment. All stories on Lit are fantasies of a kind (even those professing to be true stories) - but there's a layer of remoteness here, we're explicitly told that all the sexy times are just in Nora's imagination which might mean people are finding it harder to get invested.

The other thing is because these are pure fantasies, there's not really a narrative through-line to the whole piece. It would be very easy to read fantasy 1 and 2 and then decide to skip fantasy 3 becuase there's no burning desire to find out how it end. Plus Nora is switching again - she's back in the domme roll for this last episode.

I quite enjoyed the piece but it's a bit unusual in quite a few was and maybe scared people off before the end.

I was, in a backhand kind of way, asking if the story was good or not. Sometimes I can tell why a story did well or not, and sometimes scores can vary a lot of for reasons beyond "quality," however that is defined. In this case I really did not know what was going on.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Probably it was more of documentary than an arousing story. But I did fairly well in most of the other Nora stories (it seems like in all but two of the other seventeen). Nora herself is pretty verbose, which may have been what I was aiming to show. But, yeah, I could have cut some of the exposition. In fact, while rereading some of the stories, I noticed that I was repeating stuff that she (or I) had already said elsewhere.

Anyway, at the moment it's at 2.67. But of course, I don't care about scores until they go awry, right? Interesting feedback, thanks.

Just for the record, as per your question, I was focusing on the aspects I thought readers would find unappealing. Proper feedback would have a much broader scope and would cover some of the positive aspects of the story as well. I am saying this so you don't think I hated your story.

 

[lovecraft68]

2. Second, the guys she's dominating are paying her for the privilege.

And they'll be seen as simps or gay or whatever crap that crowd slings.

@TheRedChamber does have a good point about her being a top, but being submissive, whether the top is male or female its expected they stay in character, unless of course the focus of the story is a new part of their journey.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I must say I didn't comment on the dom-sub switching even if it's an aspect I didn't personally like because there are readers who like switching, based on the feedback I received from some of them. Since it's something I don't really understand or like myself, I felt biased and didn't want to include it in the brief analysis.
I am still not sure about the percentage of BDSM readers who enjoy the switching aspect in stories of that genre. All I have to base my opinion on is the readers' feedback but since the view-to-comment ratio is so damn high, it's hard to tell how representative that feedback is. Once again, I wish this website had a more interactive way of communicating with our readers. Some truly interesting, and potentially useful information could be gained from that.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I must say I didn't comment on the dom-sub switching even if it's an aspect I didn't personally like because there are readers who like switching, based on the feedback I received from some of them. Since it's something I don't really understand or like myself, I felt biased and didn't want to include it in the brief analysis.
I am still not sure about the percentage of BDSM readers who enjoy the switching aspect in stories of that genre. All I have to base my opinion on is the readers' feedback but since the view-to-comment ratio is so damn high, it's hard to tell how representative that feedback is. Once again, I wish this website had a more interactive way of communicating with our readers. Some truly interesting, and potentially useful information could be gained from that.

There is a site with an author's blog built into it. A few people have said they have read my blog, but it isn't a huge number. I use it anyway. YouTube videos (or a whole channel) may bring in a lot of comments and the creator may insert their own responses. This guy has 455 K subscribers. Well, he really knows his stuff and his videos are quite good if you are into that topic. (The videos listed here can be seen for free.)

https://www.youtube.com/@OceanlinerDesigns/videos

Social media of all kinds is getting increasingly cluttered.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'd been meaning to read the story since it popped up in my feed and this thread got me off my butt to actually do it. The question asked is not if the story is any good or not, but why people aren't voting (or commenting on it at all). Two possibilities then a) they're not finishing the story of b) they're finishing the story but not developing a strong enough feeling towards it to vote.

(Actually it seems like it's currently rated at 2 stars, ouch!)

I'm not sure if @lovecraft68 's comment about female domme's doing worse is actually true (although come to think of it, my one femdom story did get lower scores than most of my maledom stories) - but I think there's an important issue with your story - you specifically say Nora is not a submissive but then your first fantasy has her getting roundly spanked. People wanting a femsub will stop reading and then people wanting a femdom will stop reading.

The story is also quite a weird set up. There's a whole bunch of frankly quite workaday stuff about Nora's financial situation and attitude towards being a domme before it cuts to a pure fantasy of government corporal punishment. All stories on Lit are fantasies of a kind (even those professing to be true stories) - but there's a layer of remoteness here, we're explicitly told that all the sexy times are just in Nora's imagination which might mean people are finding it harder to get invested.

The other thing is because these are pure fantasies, there's not really a narrative through-line to the whole piece. It would be very easy to read fantasy 1 and 2 and then decide to skip fantasy 3 becuase there's no burning desire to find out how it end. Plus Nora is switching again - she's back in the domme roll for this last episode.

I quite enjoyed the piece but it's a bit unusual in quite a few was and maybe scared people off before the end.

The remoteness and lack of sexy times are (I hoped) in there because that reflects Nora's growing loneliness and boredom with the whole "job", just like her first time around two years earlier. Yeah, it's hard to read and write about depressed people. Although, the readers mostly liked the previous stories, such as the two linked at the top of the text.

 

[TheRedChamber]

The ones about prostitution, although explicit, are not truly "sexy" because I don't think prostitution itself is very sexy. I think she is accurate when she says that women don't go into it because they like sex per se, but rather that they want or need the money. A secondary consideration, mostly for dominatrices, is that it is satisfying as a power trip.

I was, in a backhand kind of way, asking if the story was good or not. Sometimes I can tell why a story did well or not, and sometimes scores can vary a lot of for reasons beyond "quality," however that is defined. In this case I really did not know what was going on.

Okay, a slightly more subjective follow up...

I think I struggled with the whole prostitution/domme aspect of it simply because it was very workaday introduced at the beginning. The problem with this kind of reality creeping into the story is that it means not only is Nora coming across as not a fun person to be, she's also not coming across as much of a 'good prostitute to visit'. Then we get to the fantasy where she's being spanked but its all impersonal/arseholish spanking that no-one is really gettingoff on. (And for all it's Nora's fantasy she doesn't seem to enjoy it much). Neither the fantasy or the reality aspects (at least of the initial story) are filling me with joy as I read. It's not quite misery porn, but it's got this weird tone to it.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

you have a spanking scene in mandy inside paradise. I feel that one is better. Not just that, but the spanking in this story is, well, more or less the same basic spanking from that story. Too basic. To be honest, I've read that one more carefully, so maybe I've missed something in this story.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

not only is Nora coming across as not a fun person to be, she's also not coming across as much of a 'good prostitute to visit'.

It's how I've read the stories, too. Nora does her utmost to humiliate and make uncomfortable her "customers" who don't look for humiliation. I'd hate being her bf, too.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Okay, a slightly more subjective follow up...

I think I struggled with the whole prostitution/domme aspect of it simply because it was very workaday introduced at the beginning. The problem with this kind of reality creeping into the story is that it means not only is Nora coming across as not a fun person to be, she's also not coming across as much of a 'good prostitute to visit'. Then we get to the fantasy where she's being spanked but its all impersonal/arseholish spanking that no-one is really gettingoff on. (And for all it's Nora's fantasy she doesn't seem to enjoy it much). Neither the fantasy or the reality aspects (at least of the initial story) are filling me with joy as I read. It's not quite misery porn, but it's got this weird tone to it.

You have some good points. Yet it's difficult to write about prostitutes without getting close to misery porn. From what I know, prostitutes are generally not fun people to be around. A "good prostitute to visit" is probably faking it, even if she is charging a large amount as a call girl or the "girlfriend experience." There is a porn trope that prostitutes love sex and that probably would do well on Lit. My guess is that is a small minority, and most of them are doing it because they want or need money (drug addiction or poverty).

I've also heard that many "sex workers," including porn actresses, develop mental problems, addictions, and such. But I can get why that may be a bummer on Lit.

Streetwalkers used to be common in New York, and now they are making a comeback. For my own accidental real life encounter with a streetwalker, see:

New York Taxi Driving Tales Ch. 02

For an article about present-day streetwalkers see:

https://nypost.com/2023/09/09/prostitution-in-nyc-market-of-sweethearts-prompts-tours/

 

[lovecraft68]

Okay, a slightly more subjective follow up...

I think I struggled with the whole prostitution/domme aspect of it simply because it was very workaday introduced at the beginning. The problem with this kind of reality creeping into the story is that it means not only is Nora coming across as not a fun person to be, she's also not coming across as much of a 'good prostitute to visit'. Then we get to the fantasy where she's being spanked but its all impersonal/arseholish spanking that no-one is really gettingoff on. (And for all it's Nora's fantasy she doesn't seem to enjoy it much). Neither the fantasy or the reality aspects (at least of the initial story) are filling me with joy as I read. It's not quite misery porn, but it's got this weird tone to it.

The idea all sex workers are happy and bundles of sexy joy is a myth perpetuated by porn. This story has a more realistic gritty feel to it. There's also a case to be made that the not so great attitude is a turn on to some men. It would do it for me.

End of day the story suffers from mixing a realistic character into a fantasy setting. I rather enjoy some of that-what I refer to as-trainwreck appeal because I'm okay with a story dosing me with some real life crap.

I will go back to an initial point. If the character were male, he'd be "dark and brooding" and the sub would have to try harder to please him..,swoon.

Its clear the readership, much like some 'men' in real life hold women to a higher ideal. They can be miserable jerks, but don't ever let a woman be that way. They're too be happy whores only.

 

[lovecraft68]

Having now read the story, I find I like it for the same reasons others here aren't happy with.

Not sure what that says about me, or them, but it doesn't matter.

I gave it a five.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

... and I don't understand why this is a story and not three stories...

 

[gunhilltrain]

It's how I've read the stories, too. Nora does her utmost to humiliate and make uncomfortable her "customers" who don't look for humiliation. I'd hate being her bf, too.

As I suggested to TheRedChamber above, the only reason a prostitute makes a customer feel comfortable is to get a repeat customer. I left out the real bad guys in this scene, the pimps and a few madams. Nora is worried about a pimp or a cop eventually finding her. Most of what is in these articles could have been said by Nora. But I do get why this might no be scintillating material on Lit.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/24/sex-workers-explain-why-dont-want-clients-please-13033199/

https://www.vice.com/en/article/9b8vev/every-type-of-client-ive-encountered-as-a-sex-worker

These are just what I found first. There are tons of things like this online