Is oriental racist? Alternatives?

[tomlitilia]

There seems to be different thoughts on how inappropriate the term oriental is. Maybe ok for objects, but not for people? What about features? Consider something like this:
"Her mascara extended outwards into a curved line to accentuate her oriental features."

Does oriental make you flinch? If so, what would you put instead? Asian sounds weird, and stuff likw Asian American doesn't work since that requires knowledge about nationality, which you wouldn't have if you just saw the person. And for the same reason, it doesn't work to say e.g. "Chinese features". "Far easter" also sounds stilted. Suggestions?

 

[UghOkay]

Oriental is considered racist by the Asian community. They don't want to be talked about like a rug. You should just say Asian if you aren't going to go into specifics like Korean-American, etc.

 

[tomlitilia]

Oriental is considered racist by the Asian community. They don't want to be talked about like a rug. You should just say Asian if you aren't going to go into specifics like Korean-American, etc.

Thanks, that's sort of what I was thinking. But I was hoping to get away with oriental if it's used as an adjective eather than a noun. Asian sounds both vague and somehow sterile, but if oriental has a bad connotation, it won't work either.

 

[Captainnumnuts]

I've encountered it on several occasions. Asians are not so obvious about it. Great folks at heart - no matter what the opinions are.

Being an American, and not too shy about it, there's so many of us that put that out there in the open. We seldom realize it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

How would you write about a character who accentuates their Caucasianness?

 

[ChloeTzang]

Speaking personally, I prefer Asian to oriental. Oriental smacks of that 19th century racism while Asian is more of a straight ethnic reference without the negative connotations. I prefer Chinese or Korean or whatever but only if that's obvious in relation to the story. I mean how many non Asians can pick specifics like that at a glance? Not many and I can't myself as often as not.

 

[Captainnumnuts]

How would you write about a character who accentuates their Caucasianness?

Good question! I'm working on that! Actually, it's done and awaiting publication.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I find it weird the consider this racist. The orient is a region. Calling someone oriental should be like calling someone a new-englander, or a Midwesterner. It just helps narrow the field a little bit. Asian is so generic. It includes a lot of people's outside of the southeast coastline.

But whatever. It's all nonsense...

 

[tomlitilia]

How would you write about a character who accentuates their Caucasianness?

Well, that's sort of the equivalent of what I don't want to do. It's not her Asianness she's emphasizing. But depending on what the potential caucasian woman looked like, I could write something like "she wore a bright red dress that matched her hair" or "the make-up brought out her bright blue eyes." Bringing it back the specific question, what I'm trying to convey is that she's beautiful, Asian, and she's proudly emphasizing her ethnic features. I guess the equivalent to the red hair or blue eyes above is to actually describe her eyes, but that's intricate, particularly if I want to stay clear of epithets used in racial slurs. Happy for suggestions!

The safe thing to do is of course to just make all characters white, but that just perpetuates the idea that beatuiful means white and other ethnicities are only allowed as fetich props. So I want to diversify.

 

[tomlitilia]

I find it weird the consider this racist. The orient is a region. Calling someone oriental should be like calling someone a new-englander, or a Midwesterner. It just helps narrow the field a little bit. Asian is so generic. It includes a lot of people's outside of the southeast coastline.

But whatever. It's all nonsense...

Well, there shouldn't be a problem using the N-word either, because there shouldn't have been a time where that term was used in a system of slavery. But there was. And thus, there is.

 

[Privates1stClass]

Does oriental make you flinch? If so, what would you put instead?

Why not mention the country she comes from? She could be Thai, Chinese, Korean, etc. It's no different than saying she's French, Italian, or German, and it gets away from anyone thinking it may be racist. After all, we have our own country of origin.

 

[R. Richard]

Caucasian is a word that is used to refer to people belonging to many different parts of the world, including Asia. In fact, Caucasians include people from western, central, and southern Asia. On the other hand, Asians refers to people belonging to Asia, no matter which part of Asia they hail from.

The Siberians are Caucasian. Many in India are Caucasian, the Ainu may or may not be Caucasian, they are of different racial stock than the majority of Japanese. There are Caucasian people in the West of the great country of China who are Caucasian, but have lived in China for thousands of years.

Excuse me, but Asian is racist.

 

[SimonDoom]

How would you write about a character who accentuates their Caucasianness?

I think you'd have to figure out exactly what that means. The only people I can think of who do this are white supremacist groups, which often are characterized by what they wear, certain hair styles, white hoods, etc.

People of European descent usually celebrate their specific national heritage -- German, Irish, etc., but not their Caucasianness.

You would want to take the same care with an Asian character-- I would think the character would be more likely to celebrate his/her Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc. culture, rather than a general Asian culture.

 

[SimonDoom]

Excuse me, but Asian is racist.

I've never heard this before. I think most Asian people don't mind being called Asian, and I don't see how it's a word of disparagement or denigration, based on what you said. One could say the same about almost any label that's applied to a large group of people. Is "African" racist? It's the most genetically diverse continent in the world.

One could say the same thing about "Latino" as well.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Well, there shouldn't be a problem using the N-word either, because there shouldn't have been a time where that term was used in a system of slavery. But there was. And thus, there is.

I find that weird too. It's a combination of negro and Niger which both me black. It shouldn't be a derisive word to begin with.

People get offended by the weirdest things. Racists and bigots use a word in a hateful manner a few too many times and all of a sudden the word is verboten even though it is a perfectly cromulent word.

Transsexual is ok now, but not tranny even though you can call a can driver a cabby.

Depending on who you talk to or the time of day gay, queer, and homo can all be good or bad, but dag is 100% off limits in some countries but not others.

Retard is off limits even though the word had meaning before it was ever used for downs syndrome.

Some black people hate being called anything but African American even though most black people live in other countries.

It's all ridiculous. We need to stop being offended by the words and worry more about the way people are using them. "Don't talk to me like that," instead of, "Don't call me that!"

The word used isn't important. The intent is.

 

[SimonDoom]

I find that weird too. It's a combination of negro and Niger which both me black. It shouldn't be a derisive word to begin with.

People get offended by the weirdest things. Racists and bigots use a word in a hateful manner a few too many times and all of a sudden the word is verboten even though it is a perfectly cromulent word.

Transsexual is ok now, but not tranny even though you can call a can driver a cabby.

Depending on who you talk to or the time of day gay, queer, and homo can all be good or bad, but dag is 100% off limits in some countries but not others.

Retard is off limits even though the word had meaning before it was ever used for downs syndrome.

Some black people hate being called anything but African American even though most black people live in other countries.

It's all ridiculous. We need to stop being offended by the words and worry more about the way people are using them. "Don't talk to me like that," instead of, "Don't call me that!"

The word used isn't important. The intent is.

I think it's because we're going through a period of very rapid social change concerning race (and other groupings), and the language can't keep up. People get offended by terms that were tied to a different era. It's not appropriate to call a black person "colored", for example, and I understand that.

I suspect this is a phase, and that it won't last forever. I hope so.

 

[Lily_Wight]

(Closed)

 

[R. Richard]

If I haven't offended enough people with my comments on Asian, let's try African.
There were two racial groups in 20,000 years ago Africa. In the tropical North, were Negroes. In the Mediterranean South were a light skinned race, NOT Caucasian, but a native African race. The more numerous Negroes, drifting South, forced the light skinned people into the Kalahari Desert, where they became the bushmen of the Kalahari. Most of the bushmen intermarried with the Negroes in a sort of creeping genocide.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I don't mind being called Asian, but it does bother me that it almost always comes up in reference to guys having a fetish.

I would say it's more of a preference than a fetish...

 

[tomlitilia]

Why not mention the country she comes from? She could be Thai, Chinese, Korean, etc. It's no different than saying she's French, Italian, or German, and it gets away from anyone thinking it may be racist. After all, we have our own country of origin.

Well, if the person taking in her appearence can't see her passport, it doesn't work very well

 

[Captainnumnuts]

I wouldn't use the term oriental unless the character saying it was in his 70s. Lol

Definitely out of fashion. People have called me oriental and it bothers me, but I wouldn't correct them unless the intent seemed questionable.

I don't mind being called Asian, but it does bother me that it almost always comes up in reference to guys having a fetish.

People can call me anything they want. Just don't call me late for dinner.

 

[MistressCassy]

This is fascinating to me. I had never considered the word to be racist or offensive. To me it always evoked feelings of desire, beauty, slender, stunning and unique features.

I googled it now and am shocked that it seems the majority of sources do link racism and disparagement to the word. Every day is a school day...

Thanks for the post OP.

 

[Captainnumnuts]

Excuse me, but Asian is racist.

That would be YOUR opinion. Correct?

 

[Hypoxia]

I (gently) use a few stereotypes but not quite so sweeping as Oriental (one from East of Eden). I'll shorthand-describe features as Saxon (bright blond), Mediterranean ("a Minoan priestess"), Levantine (eagle-beaked), Ibo ("a classic Nigerian sculpture"), etc. I doubt my narrations ever included 'Oriental' or even 'Asian' as personal descriptors. I'll label characters as Annanese or Tongan or Korean, or have them speak Cantonese or Malay or Thai.

That's for narrative. Monologue and dialog can be as racist as the speaker(s). Some asshats will blather about slant-eye Orientals, fucking Ay-rabs, thieving Sp!cs, or Nigs er I mean Africans, whatever. Unless your narrator is a jerk, don't over generalize. That's my rule of thumb.

 

[Lily_Wight]

(Closed)