Incest has become mainstream.

[CyranoJ]

To start with, every child will at one point desire to marry either mum or dad which means that even if it's based on a desire to monopolise mum or dad and not sex, every human goes through this stage.

Then as adolescents, I'm convinced that pretty much everyone, at some point, has thought, fantasised or even masturbated thinking about "doing it" with either mum or dad.

??? Basically this sounds like bastardised Freudianism, and Freudianism has never found much in the way of evidentiary support (unlike, say, the Westermarck Effect). "Convinced" as you may be of these things, you should reckon with the temptation to project one's own preferences onto others as "norms." It may be reassuring but that has nothing to do with whether it's right.

Even among adults, it's a recurring theme. Lit itself is proof of that.

Lit isn't a survey of the broader population. It's a self-selected community many of whose members come here to read about Incest, in part because some of them will have heard that there's a thriving community of that nature here. This doesn't tell us anything about what is predominant "among adults" generally.

 

[sr71plt]

I never, ever gave a hint of a thought of doing it with mum or dad--or any of my siblings. I feel so abnormal.

But I have written about it. The characters I wrote about weren't even remotely connected with my mum, dad, or sisters.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

This is so wrong. To start with, every child will at one point desire to marry either mum or dad which means that even if it's based on a desire to monopolise mum or dad and not sex, every human goes through this stage.

Then as adolescents, I'm convinced that pretty much everyone, at some point, has thought, fantasised or even masturbated thinking about "doing it" with either mum or dad.

Even if we were to accept these as facts, and I'm saying we should, virtually everyone considers suicide at one point, but suicide movies don't continually dominate the box office. I think a lot about what I'm going to get at the grocery store, but I'm not clamoring for a new movie called "The List."

A universal experience doesn't guarantee interest. We've all had heartburn. You'll sadly find that literary works focusing on heartburn are woefully under represented by most agents in this climate.

 

[NicoleZ]

??? Basically this sounds like bastardised Freudianism, and Freudianism has never found much in the way of evidentiary support (unlike, say, the Westermarck Effect). "Convinced" as you may be of these things, you should reckon with the temptation to project one's own preferences onto others as "norms." It may be reassuring but that has nothing to do with whether it's right.

Lit isn't a survey of the broader population. It's a self-selected community many of whose members come here to read about Incest, in part because some of them will have heard that there's a thriving community of that nature here. This doesn't tell us anything about what is predominant "among adults" generally.

Terribly unscientific conclusions coloured by your own wishes as to what reality ought to be and not based on the evidence, one regrets to observe.

You're trying to claim that people who come here have no interest in what is on display - an utterly preposterous claim. People come here to read what is of interest to them, period. That they come here in such huge numbers - some incest stories have a million+ views - is proof that it is indeed a survey of the broader population as we know for a fact that ~20% of the population - that is one in every five people you pass in the street every day - are either gay or bi, yet those stories (gay + lesbian) are outnumbered nine to seven by Incest stories and as expressed by number of views and votes more than ten to one.

No matter how you try to twist it, those are facts.

 

[NicoleZ]

Even if we were to accept these as facts, and I'm saying we should, virtually everyone considers suicide at one point, but suicide movies don't continually dominate the box office. I think a lot about what I'm going to get at the grocery store, but I'm not clamoring for a new movie called "The List."

A universal experience doesn't guarantee interest. We've all had heartburn. You'll sadly find that literary works focusing on heartburn are woefully under represented by most agents in this climate.

True but easy to counter: we employ ourselves in the pursuit of happiness, not its opposite. We like to feel good about ourselves, not bad (etc).

 

[NicoleZ]

I never, ever gave a hint of a thought of doing it with mum or dad--or any of my siblings. I feel so abnormal.

Seriously? You really do have such perfect recall of what went on in your life and head when you were three years old (mum as she usually is the parent little boys focus on) or when you were thirteen - fourteen?

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Terribly unscientific conclusions coloured by your own wishes as to what reality ought to be and not based on the evidence, one regrets to observe.

You're trying to claim that people who come here have no interest in what is on display - an utterly preposterous claim. People come here to read what is of interest to them, period. That they come here in such huge numbers - some incest stories have a million+ views - is proof that it is indeed a survey of the broader population as we know for a fact that ~20% of the population - that is one in every five people you pass in the street every day - are either gay or bi, yet those stories (gay + lesbian) are outnumbered nine to seven by Incest stories and as expressed by number of views and votes more than ten to one.

No matter how you try to twist it, those are facts.

What he is saying, I believe, is that Literotica is a premiere purveyor of incest. It is not a preeminent place to find stories for the LGBTQI community. At this point, gay stories are simply stories. They've actually made it mainstream, so to speak.

The same is true of sci-fi, romance, fantasy, or horror. All of those categories DWARF incest as categories for fiction--just not here, on an almost unregulated site specializing in stories designed to arouse people of all tastes. Incest readers come HERE. Other readers go, well, everywhere. Here, but also a thousand other places.

Saying that the number of votes here proves that incest is more popular than homosexuality is like going on a site devoted to the NBA, and then making the argument that, judging by the votes of the site, Space Jam is more well-loved than Gone With The Wind.

 

[NicoleZ]

What he is saying, I believe, is that Literotica is a premiere purveyor of incest. It is not a preeminent place to find stories for the LGBTQI community. At this point, gay stories are simply stories. They've actually made it mainstream, so to speak.

The same is true of sci-fi, romance, fantasy, or horror. All of those categories DWARF incest as categories for fiction--just not here, on an almost unregulated site specializing in stories designed to arouse people of all tastes. Incest readers come HERE. Other readers go, well, everywhere. Here, but also a thousand other places.

Saying that the number of votes here proves that incest is more popular than homosexuality is like going on a site devoted to the NBA, and then making the argument that, judging by the votes of the site, Space Jam is more well-loved than Gone With The Wind.

No, no, no.

You can't make those comparisons as they are not relevant! This is a site devoted to sex in most of its forms (i.e. not zoophilia, snuff and below 18). People who come on here do so because they want to read about sex. People who go on the NBA site expect to read news and articles concerned with basketball - your inference about Space Jam vs Gone with the Wind is ludicrous!

• People who come on to Lit do so because they have an interest in sex and reading stories about sexual relations and intercourse - and in this I include negative interest ("moral crusaders")
  
• People who have no interest in sex and reading stories about sexual relations and intercourse do not come here
  
• Out of the people who do have an interest in sex and find their way here, a majority show a preference for Incest over Gay+Bi

Now I leave it to you to prove that out of all English-speaking people, with internet access and the time to pursue their interests, those who come to Literotica is such a vanishingly small sample that it's impossible to draw any conlusions based on such a sample.

Please note that Polling Institutes make predictions on election results based on far smaller samples.

 

[CyranoJ]

Saying that the number of votes here proves that incest is more popular than homosexuality is like going on a site devoted to the NBA, and then making the argument that, judging by the votes of the site, Space Jam is more well-loved than Gone With The Wind.

Exactly.

Terribly unscientific conclusions coloured by your own wishes as to what reality ought to be

Pretty rich stuff coming from someone who just made a series of unsubstantiated cod-Freudian claims with no basis in science. This isn't a playground, you don't get to just yell "I know you are but what am I." The Westermarck Effect which I referred to you is actually attested in peer-reviewed experimental literature: that's what "scientific" means. Your blathering about how sure you are that everybody wants to fuck their family members is the opposite. Instead of just yelling "NO U" you might try actually finding out why Westermarck is practically attested in the real world and the Oedipus Effect is, to date, not.

You're trying to claim that people who come here have no interest in what is on display

I said no such thing. I said that people who come here are a self-selected community who aren't necessarily representative of any broader current in society. You are claiming the opposite and the onus is on you to provide evidence for it, which I'm guessing you quite simply cannot do given your instant resort to strawmen.

[in reply to AMB] You can't make those comparisons as they are not relevant!

You are trying to make claims that Lit's readership is reflective of some broader consensus among "adult readers" in the world at large. The world at large is therefore relevant. This should not require explaining.

 

[sr71plt]

Seriously? You really do have such perfect recall of what went on in your life and head when you were three years old (mum as she usually is the parent little boys focus on) or when you were thirteen - fourteen?

Seriously. I think that if you were thinking about having sex with a family member when you were three years old, you were/are one messed up chick. You made a blanket statement about everybody. You're not in a position to do so. And I think you're wrong anyway.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Then as adolescents, I'm convinced that pretty much everyone, at some point, has thought, fantasised or even masturbated thinking about "doing it" with either mum or dad.

Last to see this - it's now morning in Australia - but sweeping statements like this just means the maker has a favourite broom. "...pretty much everyone..." = bullshit.

Seeing your big sister naked when she's 17 and you're 12, now there's a lasting thing. Don't ever recall wanting to bop me mum though.

 

[sr71plt]

Lit isn't a survey of the broader population. It's a self-selected community many of whose members come here to read about Incest, in part because some of them will have heard that there's a thriving community of that nature here. This doesn't tell us anything about what is predominant "among adults" generally.

Yep. I also put my GM stories in a Web site called Gaydemon. In addition to GM, the story accepts straight and bi stories, but, naturally, the self-selected community is GM. There are 12,832 stories posted there at the moment. No incest category and only 13 stories come up on a search on "incest." The "straight" section has 83 stories in it (12 by me, incidentally.) Does that mean that adult interest in erotica is predominantly gay male? Nope. Does it mean that few adults are interested in reading straight sex stories or incest stories? Nope. It means that those with specific interests congregate where the Web site has targeted those interests. It means just about nothing in relationship to the general adult population. As noted, it doesn't tell us anything about what is predominant "among adults" generally.

 

[NicoleZ]

peer-reviewed

Let's see now: Peer = equal. Peer-reviewed = reviewed by equals. Who is peer enough to review the works of an Einstein? A Hawking? A Zijlstraa?

Peer-review(-ed) is the greatest humbug ever invented - "you scratch my back and I scratched yours". It has nothing to do whatsoever with "scientific" except as a vehicle to guarantee lesser lights the number of citations needed in order to qualify for senior academic positions. It is the greatest obstacle there is to scientific progress as it cements the status quo, within the accepted paradigm, no disagreeing with the majority and authorities. If you do, your "peers" pretty quickly tear you to shreds as you threaten the status quo and their serene progress up the academic ladder.

While I am not a Psychology major, I have read enough psychology, behaviourism and sociology to know what I am talking about. From your statement "going on a site devoted to the NBA, and then making the argument that, judging by the votes of the site, Space Jam is more well-loved than Gone With The Wind" it's easy to see that you're talking through your chauvinistic, condescending sexist male arse. Or are you really so stupid that you look up the NBA site to find out the relative merits of movies?

And you have not given any proof that out of all English-speaking people, with internet access and the time to pursue their interests, those who come to Literotica is such a vanishingly small sample that it's impossible to draw any conlusions based on such a sample.

Before you make yourself look even more stupid, please note that Polling Institutes make predictions on election results based on far smaller samples.

Yes, I am shouting but seemingly it's the only way to get through your thick skull.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

From your statement "going on a site devoted to the NBA, and then making the argument that, judging by the votes of the site, Space Jam is more well-loved than Gone With The Wind" it's easy to see that you're talking through your chauvinistic, condescending sexist male arse. Or are you really so stupid that you look up the NBA site to find out the relative merits of movies?[/QUOTE]

Ummm, did the Monstars steal your capacity for reason and logic?

Because I know a guy....

 

[Handley_Page]

I never, ever gave a hint of a thought of doing it with mum or dad--or any of my siblings. I feel so abnormal.

.

I quite agree. The thought of 'my Mum and I' can frighten me.
To my mind even writing about it is indicative of something that will take shrink to fix.
(Efforts in a purely writing context accepted, perhaps)

 

[sr71plt]

Ummm, did the Monstars steal your capacity for reason and logic?

Is this a trick question?

 

[CyranoJ]

Let's see now: Peer = equal. Peer-reviewed = reviewed by equals. Who is peer enough to review the works of an Einstein? A Hawking? A Zijlstraa?

Jesus. Check, please. I'm done here.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Jesus. Check, please. I'm done here.

Can you saddle a peer-review? Can you catch it in a net like a butterfly? Can you look at it and say, "Hey, stop reviewing your peers so critically.". No! Such is Mango!

 

[TxRad]

When you wax yourself into a corner, start buffing. Sooner or later, you'll slide right out.

 

[lovecraft68]

When it comes to incest I see it the way I see any type of sex-or lifestyle for that matter-if it is consensual and the people are of age and no one is getting hurt, who the fuck cares?

 

[sr71plt]

Not me. I have twenty-five incest stories posted to Lit.

 

[ElectricBlue]

When it comes to incest I see it the way I see any type of sex-or lifestyle for that matter-if it is consensual and the people are of age and no one is getting hurt, who the fuck cares?

No problems with any negative impact on the gene pool then, from inter-breeding?

Probably what happened to Neanderthal man when they came up against Homo Sapiens. Despite being around 200,000 years plus and being a successful species in that time, Neanderthal extinction by all accounts was fairly rapid (despite genetic compatibility), and I'm guessing a significant factor was declining gene pool in individual populations as their numbers declined. Last found on the south-western extremes of the Iberian peninsula, according to the anthropologists. Clearly couldn't figure out how to build boats.

 

[MindsMirror]

One star of the show Taboo, Oona Chaplin, says

"There's a sexual libertarianism right now," she told Vanity Fair. "Girls are walking around with their asses hanging out, and guys are just as much. Sex has become a very public-display type of thing, so there's very few things that have remained taboo. Where does the taboo lie now? I think it's in incest.

-MM

 

[CyranoJ]

Given the rise of the Alt Reich and associated bigotry I think we're tacking back toward a lot more things being taboo, gay and interracial relationships and trans sexuality in particular. But incest certainly qualifies. (So for that matter does non-con; it's not for nothing that 50 Shades is so popular despite or perhaps because of getting the BDSM community's IRL commitment to consent spectacularly wrong.)

 

[SimonDoom]

I have no idea whether incest is becoming mainstream. I don't know of any evidence that it is. But one thing I think I do know is that the popularity of incest stories among the highly self-selected group of Lit readers, and the absolute number of readers who come to this site to read or write incest stories, tells us next to nothing about the incidence of incest or the acceptance of incest in the population as a whole.

The fallacy I think is illustrated in the OP's initial comment that the seeming growing popularity of TV shows dealing with incest means it's becoming more accepted. Not so. Murder and mayhem are more common on TV than ever before; it doesn't mean people accept it more. In fact, murder rates are half what they were 25 years ago. There's no connection between the two at all. I see no reason why it would be any different for incest.

I tend to think the opposite is true: the popularity of incest as an erotic subject is precisely due to the fact that it remains so taboo. It's titillating. But one can find it so without having personally experienced incestuous desires.