Gross betrayal of trust..

[Claudia_TylerMae]

Possibly my favourite comment so far, "Gross betrayal of trust.." - for this story https://literotica.com/s/ninas-revenge (TW: hypnotism, forced fem, femdom, humiliation..)

I'm fairly aware that anonymous reviews are.. random.. and that's fine. This story brings up two questions though..

Surely any Mind Control story is pretty much by definition at least a little bit non-consensual? After all, if the protagonist was going to do all those things anyway it wouldn't be mind control, it'd be Polite Suggestion, or Your To-Do List (ooohh... that would be an interesting MC story prompt)... if you choose to read a Mind Control story, you're choosing to read about someone doing something against their will.

The Meta question then has to be.. are there some tags I'm not aware of that I should have added to indicate non-consent, a very tongue in cheek story and a complete lack of foreplay (in the literary sense)?

(Oh and hello, thought I'd stick my neck in here. I'm bringing over stories that have ended up on various sites, lost in time, so the quality and intent is a little variable as I was trying out ideas. It's interesting to see how people react to them on a site where reaction is actually encouraged).

 

[AlinaX]

Yes, almost all Mind Control is non-con, but some commenters are weird.

 

[KeithD]

if you choose to read a Mind Control story, you're choosing to read about someone doing something against their will.

But aren't there those who say a subject will not do anything against his/her will under hypnosis. Just that it releases inhibitions?

 

[Bamagan]

There are a handful of people who read (or at least visit) the MC category specifically to express their distaste for its existence, or so I am forced to conclude. That Anon might be one such. Or they might specifically be triggered by some other element, like the feminization, femdom, or humiliation, which aren't strictly necessary for an MC tale. But yeah, as feedback goes, it's particularly unhelpful. Are they suggesting you the author betrayed them somehow, or is it a critique of the characters? Offhand I'd assume the former, but you never know.

 

[Claudia_TylerMae]

I have to be clear I really don't mind the feedback - it gave me a moment to think about what I was portraying.

Certainly on the fetish end of the spectrum, one of the biggest challenges has to be "how can I make this completely unlikely thing happen whilst avoiding all of the usual tropes?". I'm aware that sometimes I'm writing a story just to explore the mechanism, or to deliberately run counter to the "common wisdom" on how these things occur or the headspace of the MC.

 

[Claudia_TylerMae]

But aren't there those who say a subject will not do anything against his/her will under hypnosis. Just that it releases inhibitions?

Maybe we should have a "Drunk whilst fucking" section...

 

[AlinaX]

But aren't there those who say a subject will not do anything against his/her will under hypnosis. Just that it releases inhibitions?

Mind Control has hypnosis stories and techno-/magical mind control stories, and I suspect the readerships for these don't mix.

 

[MattblackUK]

That's easy. "You fiend! You betrayed my trust 144 times!"

 

[MetaBob]

Possibly my favourite comment so far, "Gross betrayal of trust.." - for this story https://literotica.com/s/ninas-revenge (TW: hypnotism, forced fem, femdom, humiliation..)

I'm fairly aware that anonymous reviews are.. random.. and that's fine. This story brings up two questions though..

Surely any Mind Control story is pretty much by definition at least a little bit non-consensual? After all, if the protagonist was going to do all those things anyway it wouldn't be mind control, it'd be Polite Suggestion, or Your To-Do List (ooohh... that would be an interesting MC story prompt)... if you choose to read a Mind Control story, you're choosing to read about someone doing something against their will.

The Meta question then has to be.. are there some tags I'm not aware of that I should have added to indicate non-consent, a very tongue in cheek story and a complete lack of foreplay (in the literary sense)?

Speaking as someone whose stories here and elsewhere (see my sig) nearly always feature some form of mind control, usually by hypnosis but sometimes assisted by magic and always featuring the reward (interspersed with just the promise) of great sex between dominant females and their submissive males, I must note that some people just don't like the idea of mind control or any other kind of unequal relationship, particularly control of men by women.

My favorite comment to one of my stories (by Anonymous, naturally): "With the current state of politics, I can't stand "Strong" women in charge."
https://www.literotica.com/s/were-tigress-ch-03#comment8339466

Kinda says it all.

That story's tags include: consensual, female dominant, hand job, hypnosis, magic, married, multiple orgasms, mind control
Category: Mind Control

So it's not like the reader wouldn't know up front what the story would be like.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I don't often venture into the Mind Control stories, but the audience there might be similar to those who read and hate Loving Wives stories.

We would think those haters would try to find and focus their attentions on stories which they ENJOY reading. But I know very well there are many LW readers who seek out the wife-sharing stories merely to 1-bomb and hate them. Maybe there is something in their personal experience which they are wrestling with which makes them do it.

That might be the case with the Mind Control hater, saying "Gross betrayal of trust." They might have experienced such a situation, whether it was a subliminal loss of inhibitions or a secret desire which was exposed, they might now seek out and hate the story.

Some people are easily triggered, and they'll never be happy until everyone else thinks as they do (or is dead if they don't.) They're just leading sad lives.

So, the OP might have posted stories here looking for a larger or different audience. But be careful what you wish for. You got it.

 

[alohadave]

I don't often venture into the Mind Control stories, but the audience there might be similar to those who read and hate Loving Wives stories.

We would think those haters would try to find and focus their attentions on stories which they ENJOY reading. But I know very well there are many LW readers who seek out the wife-sharing stories merely to 1-bomb and hate them. Maybe there is something in their personal experience which they are wrestling with which makes them do it.

That might be the case with the Mind Control hater, saying "Gross betrayal of trust." They might have experienced such a situation, whether it was a subliminal loss of inhibitions or a secret desire which was exposed, they might now seek out and hate the story.

Some people are easily triggered, and they'll never be happy until everyone else thinks as they do (or is dead if they don't.) They're just leading sad lives.

So, the OP might have posted stories here looking for a larger or different audience. But be careful what you wish for. You got it.

The MC bombers are far more isolated and individual than LW. It's mostly individuals like Whackdoodle who go on a tear about consent and leave for a while.

 

[Lifestyle66]

The MC bombers are far more isolated and individual than LW. It's mostly individuals like Whackdoodle who go on a tear about consent and leave for a while.

And the audience in MC is probably proportionately smaller the LWs.

The number of 1-bombing haters in LW is relatively small. They are just very vocal and dedicated.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I don't often venture into the Mind Control stories, but the audience there might be similar to those who read and hate Loving Wives stories.

We would think those haters would try to find and focus their attentions on stories which they ENJOY reading. But I know very well there are many LW readers who seek out the wife-sharing stories merely to 1-bomb and hate them. Maybe there is something in their personal experience which they are wrestling with which makes them do it.

That might be the case with the Mind Control hater, saying "Gross betrayal of trust." They might have experienced such a situation, whether it was a subliminal loss of inhibitions or a secret desire which was exposed, they might now seek out and hate the story.

Some people are easily triggered, and they'll never be happy until everyone else thinks as they do (or is dead if they don't.) They're just leading sad lives.

So, the OP might have posted stories here looking for a larger or different audience. But be careful what you wish for. You got it.

Surprisingly, in my sole MC story, a femdom-themed body horror revenge tale for AI Era, the comments that came in from folks I know mostly read me from LW were largely positive, even the ones that I expected to hate it. It's like I said before: they hate cheating, not women, at least mostly. And they looooove deserved revenge; I had at least one ask "hey, she needs to go after the rest of the guys who hurt her next" from one of them."

Admittedly, I did get one comment that simply read, "Nope."

However, I did write an antagonist that puts most cheaters in LW to shame, in terms of how much they deserved... well, some punishment. Probably not this one specifically, but some.

 

[lovecraft68]

As this site has proved, there are plenty of people who refuse to acknowledge MC as NC, and I imagine there are readers who feel that way too.

TBH I think your comment was because it was femdom, and OMG that awful woman doing something to a man.

The same story with the man controlling the woman would get rave reviews.

Its all about the cold male insecurity

 

[SimonDoom]

There's nothing you can do to appease readers of this type, and it's better not to try and not to think about them.

 

[Lifestyle66]

There's nothing you can do to appease readers of this type, and it's better not to try and not to think about them.

But its sometimes fun to "poke the bear". It's as if challenging them to be a little more creative with their insults. For many of those simple minds, that's all the writing they'll ever do.

 

[SimonDoom]

But its sometimes fun to "poke the bear". It's as if challenging them to be a little more creative with their insults. For many of those simple minds, that's all the writing they'll ever do.

I've poked the bear, with predictable bear attacks. I don't fret about it. When you venture into certain categories with certain kinds of stories, the shit storm is just part of the deal, and the best thing you can do is to accept it and not overthink how to prevent it from happening.

 

[lc69hunter]

Possibly my favourite comment so far, "Gross betrayal of trust.." - for this story https://literotica.com/s/ninas-revenge (TW: hypnotism, forced fem, femdom, humiliation..)

I'm fairly aware that anonymous reviews are.. random.. and that's fine. This story brings up two questions though..

Surely any Mind Control story is pretty much by definition at least a little bit non-consensual? After all, if the protagonist was going to do all those things anyway it wouldn't be mind control, it'd be Polite Suggestion, or Your To-Do List (ooohh... that would be an interesting MC story prompt)... if you choose to read a Mind Control story, you're choosing to read about someone doing something against their will.

The Meta question then has to be.. are there some tags I'm not aware of that I should have added to indicate non-consent, a very tongue in cheek story and a complete lack of foreplay (in the literary sense)?

(Oh and hello, thought I'd stick my neck in here. I'm bringing over stories that have ended up on various sites, lost in time, so the quality and intent is a little variable as I was trying out ideas. It's interesting to see how people react to them on a site where reaction is actually encouraged).

I have always considered MC has the tame little sister of NCR, and as such have refused to read any of either category. In retrospect, thinking of the fact that in hypnotism apparently, one cannot be forced into doing anything they would otherwise not do, and the old Eagles lyric, "but she can't take you anywhere you don't already know where to go", I may go back and start reading some of the Mind Control stories.

 

[Bamagan]

I have always considered MC has the tame little sister of NCR, and as such have refused to read any of either category. In retrospect, thinking of the fact that in hypnotism apparently, one cannot be forced into doing anything they would otherwise not do, and the old Eagles lyric, "but she can't take you anywhere you don't already know where to go", I may go back and start reading some of the Mind Control stories.

In a Venn diagram of the two, there's a thick wedge of overlap. The fantasy/pseudoscience angle of MC mostly just means that coercion, blackmail, violence, and the like, all mainstays of NC/R, generally get passed over in favor of less realistic tropes. But don't go in expecting the hypno-tales to have any basis in hypnotherapy. Some do, but not many. You'll find a few tales of consensual hypno-play that could overlap with BDSM, as they're something like consensual non-consent or surrendering power, and some more or less victimless tales where the MC is accidental, like characters listening to relaxation recordings and picking up behavioral triggers from some other source. But mostly it's powerplay fantasies that would easily fit in NC/R but for the unreality of the control gimmick.

 

[Claudia_TylerMae]

"But don't go in expecting the hypno-tales to have any basis in hypnotherapy." - I've had some quite interesting real-world experiences with hypnosis, and outside of hypnotherapy there are definitely some startling effects that can be achieved. However, in the context of a story this quickly becomes a technical discussion that doesn't make for a compelling tale. It's like expecting to read a story about winning Le Mans, but getting the service manual for a Honda Civic.

So with the aim of producing something more interesting, it often makes sense (to me at least) to skip the technical parts of achieving a real trance, embedding triggers, reinforcing behaviours (all of which work to varying degrees in the real world) and get to the end result - what is imposed on the person, how do they react, how do people around them respond? Then there is a little artistic license. Induced memory loss is only experienced by about one in twenty subjects, and even then is not easy. Cold triggers don't tend to work so well. Most people will tend to "snap out of it" if the situation around them doesn't encourage continued behaviour, and so on..

As for the non-consent part... it's certainly possible to put someone in a state where they have involuntary behaviours and potentially quite poor judgment. I'm not one to subscribe to the "you're just going along with it" - there is genuine risk of harm if you commit to this sort of experience. This is not unique though. You could say the same about alcohol, bondage, corporal punishment and a bunch of other things we choose to do to ourselves that can have serious consequences. And as with those other things, you can't just fall off the deep end with hypnosis - no-one can just snap their fingers at you and make you dance. So there is agency within it, a commitment to allow a third party to put you in potentially compromising situations, just the same as letting that hot Dominatrix tie you to the bed.

In the story that got the original comment, neither the hypnosis or the effects come out of the blue. The MC has allowed their partner to 'experiment on them' a number of times before. They also talk about a little furtive crossdressing that they think their partner doesn't know about. This is a "be careful what you wish for" tale (with a dry sense of humour) taken to an extreme. I would certainly avoid a story where the hypnotist doesn't have reason to believe their subject wouldn't enjoy the experience (under their protection), or where they are forced to act genuinely against their safety. Of course if you're a red-blooded man who would rather die than wear pink, the story is going to hit different, which is where the anonymous comment probably comes from.

 

[ChassonKnight]

I came up with, and developed quite away along, an interactive story in which LARPers ended up under an enchantment which made their LARP real, to them at least, with them believing themselves to be their characters. I realised quite suddenly that it makes it a non-con story, which isn't allowed on the platform I was going to release it. So I abandoned the project. The non-con element is subtle, hidden beneath the temporary identity change of the characters, but it's still there. I still question whether I could get away with it, but my fucking conscience doesn't give me any peace with these things.

 

[jsmiam]

It's like expecting to read a story about winning Le Mans, but getting the service manual for a Honda Civic.

I might read an ncmc story for the first time ever just ‘cuz you wrote something like this. ;-)

 

[Bamagan]

"But don't go in expecting the hypno-tales to have any basis in hypnotherapy." - I've had some quite interesting real-world experiences with hypnosis...

I simply was warning the poster, who had expressed a distaste for MC & NC but opined that the old trope about hypnotized people only doing things they actually want to do might make some enjoyable to read, would still probably find a lot of stories in the category objectionable because very few deal with hypnosis as a story element in that way (i.e., a sex game tool rather than a mechanism of control). What is or is not possible in life has little bearing on the contents of the category here.

 

[Claudia_TylerMae]

I might read an ncmc story for the first time ever just ‘cuz you wrote something like this. ;-)

Thank you. I try. I'm afraid my stories are rather variable - finding time to properly flesh out ideas is always a challenge. Most of them could do with some serious re-work and editing.

 

[AchtungNight]

I’m personally not into Mind Control. I’ve had enough issues with ethical Jedi practicing mind tricks, alcohol, and a freelance psych artist in the Fanfic section. I also have a personal aversion to hypnosis I won’t further explain. Is not the plot making characters believably give consent mind control enough?