"Gaming Losers Hate Women"

[hssh345Alt]

"A new study has found that men who harass women online are actual losers - at least when it comes to video games."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YfIzlKwxbU8

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33613781

 

[bronzeage]

Is this a surprise to anyone?

 

[Recidiva]

I saw that article.

I've been a computer gamer since a friend of mine gave me a floppy disk with "Adventure" written on it. So...36 years or so?

It's not true, though. There are a lot of highly competitive and competent people that are competitive because they're overcompensating for their own insecurities. There's really no correlation between gaming skill and behavior.

There is correlation between social maturity and behavior, and gaming in some games is a very cerebral and strategic undertaking and it appeals to people who like puzzles to solve, so you can't actually tell social maturity through defining someone as a gamer.

I will have to say that if you enter a hobby where in general you are killing things, you fail miserably if you fail to kill things, and then your prize is usually a status ranking, loot or being made fun of eternally...

You should be able to take some harassment and fling it back at them.

Just consider it another status ranking and have fun.

 

[hssh345Alt]

Is this a surprise to anyone?

Of course not.

But I intend to post this link every time I'm harassed by 1-2 GB a-hles. And I encourage others to do the same.

Cuz this is the 21 century, not the 50's

 

[Sean Renaud]

163 games is barely a sample of anything and it's also worth noting that 13 year old boys the notoriously most offensive gamers on the planet are virtually indistinguishable from women. Add in that calling people women, talking about rape is really the same as talking about fags and that's gay. You can be offended all you want but 90% of gamers who talk shit about gays are also the first people in line to defend their rights and equality. It's just a phrase that's part of society.

In addition Halo is only one game. It would be interesting to see this study done over a wider group. If you read the authors theory it's about being a bottom rung male. So if they are correct we should be able to go to say a random high school and find that the popular kids are kinder and more respectful to women and the outsiders are hostile. Same with sports, we should find that those at the top are the nice guys and those at the bottom are mean spirited.

 

[Recidiva]

Of course not.

But I intend to post this link every time I'm harassed by 1-2 GB a-hles. And I encourage others to do the same.

Cuz this is the 21 century, not the 50's

Hardly anybody here on the GB is going to identify as a gamer, it won't make any difference. Even if they did, this is not a game situation. There are no shared goals or currency or standards of measurement or accomplishment.

There's only text.

Most people think they have their own rules and that means that people can claim that they've won at checkers while someone else claims they've won at chess and someone else yells Yahtzee and Bingo.

 

[Recidiva]

163 games is barely a sample of anything and it's also worth noting that 13 year old boys the notoriously most offensive gamers on the planet are virtually indistinguishable from women. Add in that calling people women, talking about rape is really the same as talking about fags and that's gay. You can be offended all you want but 90% of gamers who talk shit about gays are also the first people in line to defend their rights and equality. It's just a phrase that's part of society.

In addition Halo is only one game. It would be interesting to see this study done over a wider group. If you read the authors theory it's about being a bottom rung male. So if they are correct we should be able to go to say a random high school and find that the popular kids are kinder and more respectful to women and the outsiders are hostile. Same with sports, we should find that those at the top are the nice guys and those at the bottom are mean spirited.

Yeah, so many flawed premises in the study it's just silly.

The fact that someone decided that this was going to be the premise of a study just reeks of butthurt.

Plus, how do you define harassment? There's no objective or subjective measurement.

 

[hssh345Alt]

lol…

you guys are really taking your games seriously... I didn't mean to offend gamers, I just picked up the most recent article (it just happened to be gamers, not much research put into that)

 

[lovetoread]

Man, it didnt take long to say women dont get harrassed cause they were females, eh?

 

[Recidiva]

lol…

you guys are really taking your games seriously... I didn't mean to offend gamers, I just picked up the most recent article (it just happened to be gamers, not much research put into that)

Fucking hell yes I take my games seriously!

I just am not successfully harassed. Of course people have tried to harass me. Sometimes because I'm an elf and sometimes because I'm a woman and sometimes because I'm a guy and sometimes because I'm an orc and sometimes because my prices are too high and sometimes because my prices are too low and...

I'm not offended, I'm just saying it's a crap study that has no idea about the culture or science.

You know, for instance.

 

[hssh345Alt]

Fucking hell yes I take my games seriously!

I just am not successfully harassed. Of course people have tried to harass me. Sometimes because I'm an elf and sometimes because I'm a woman and sometimes because I'm a guy and sometimes because I'm an orc and sometimes because my prices are too high and sometimes because my prices are too low and...

I'm not offended, I'm just saying it's a crap study that has no idea about the culture or science.

You know, for instance.

you're right, it's not a good study.
And those were the exact comments on TYT (where I found out about it). However, that article sparkled an interesting disscussion about misogyny/online harassment. Unfortunately, tyt haven't upploaded the entire conversation on youtube, for me to post the link

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah, so many flawed premises in the study it's just silly.

The fact that someone decided that this was going to be the premise of a study just reeks of butthurt.

Plus, how do you define harassment? There's no objective or subjective measurement.

There are legal terms for harassment and yes gamers harass but it tends to be omnidirectional in my experience.

lol…

you guys are really taking your games seriously... I didn't mean to offend gamers, I just picked up the most recent article (it just happened to be gamers, not much research put into that)

Damn right I take my games seriously. I'm not really a 'casual' gamer I'm just not a pro. Yes you did mean to offend or you wouldn't have posted this garbage. There are dozens of other articles on dozens of other sites.

Man, it didnt take long to say women dont get harrassed cause they were females, eh?

By and large they don't. They are in most cases that I've seen damn near worshipped because while females may make up half the gaming community technically that number starts plummeting fast when you stop talking "casual" games and start talking mainstream games. The numbers have come up sure (and MMOs have always had a healthier mix but just like on the internet in general I always assume a female has a roughly 1 in 3 chance of being a male playing a woman) but usually she's like the girl who wanders into the comic shop. Everybody is fawning over her because she's a rarity.

Which isn't to say it never happens. It does.

 

[Recidiva]

you're right, it's not a good study.
And those were the exact comments on TYT (where I found out about it). However, that article sparkled an interesting disscussion about misogyny/online harassment. Unfortunately, tyt haven't upploaded the entire conversation on youtube, for me to post the link

Interesting discussion is fine. Obfuscating and manipulative "science" is not.

Harassment is serious, and what has happened in the gaming community is horrific.

We don't need to worry about the dumb losers so much as the egotistical vicious assholes that are capable of solving problems including how to kill someone.

Obvious bad science is bad.

 

[Phaneron]

Fucking hell yes I take my games seriously!

I just am not successfully harassed. Of course people have tried to harass me. Sometimes because I'm an elf and sometimes because I'm a woman and sometimes because I'm a guy and sometimes because I'm an orc and sometimes because my prices are too high and sometimes because my prices are too low and...

I'm not offended, I'm just saying it's a crap study that has no idea about the culture or science.

You know, for instance.

A million times this.

 

[Recidiva]

There are legal terms for harassment and yes gamers harass but it tends to be omnidirectional in my experience.

I've had the luck to sit side by side for 20 years with a male gamer and play together in hundreds of similar environments for comparison.

It is not omnidirectional.

The reactions Ulaven gets when he plays a female character and the reactions I get when I play a male character are also available.

20 years ago:

Masculinity is accepted but ignored. Femininity is doubted and on the basis of that doubt, harassed. Compared to being an obvious alt troll here. In reality, however, there are just as many women as men, depending on the game.

Then there was the roleplay community, which honestly the best players did not give a flying flaming anything about your actual gender, how was your wit?

Playing a game well still got your usual jealousy/praise, regardless of gender for most.

Present:

Things have changed over time, particularly with ventrillo/voice where gender is more apparent and it isn't an obvious roleplay community.

However, there's a growing "Meninist" sense that female roleplay and cosplay is attention-getting and that "real women" don't play games and that gaming is a man's place and a woman could just go shake her ass somewhere else.

It's virulent and vile and it's at conventions, in games and has this really bitter undertone that has resulted in stalking and deaths.

 

[Recidiva]

A million times this.

*high5*

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'll grant you the "fake girl gamer" outrage. Though I often find it to be one of those kind of silly from all angles scenarios. You can tell the girls who aren't "gamers" and just want to dress up and be oggled. As a long time gamer I do kinda get some of the hostility we have towards them. Cus none of those women gave us time when we were younger and most won't now. Now really you don't have the right to be offended because someone wants to show up at your event for whatever reason but I can comprehend it.

 

[Recidiva]

I'll grant you the "fake girl gamer" outrage. Though I often find it to be one of those kind of silly from all angles scenarios. You can tell the girls who aren't "gamers" and just want to dress up and be oggled. As a long time gamer I do kinda get some of the hostility we have towards them. Cus none of those women gave us time when we were younger and most won't now. Now really you don't have the right to be offended because someone wants to show up at your event for whatever reason but I can comprehend it.

That's it! Right there!

"You can tell the girls who aren't "gamers" and just want to dress up and be oggled (sic)"

No. No, you can't. You can't and you shouldn't and you should feel bad. DAMN.

Sean.

Don't kinda get the hostility!

 

[Phaneron]

*high5*

*high5* hehe

 

[Sean Renaud]

That's it! Right there!

"You can tell the girls who aren't "gamers" and just want to dress up and be oggled (sic)"

No. No, you can't. You can't and you shouldn't and you should feel bad. DAMN.

Sean.

Don't kinda get the hostility!

Yes you can. It's not difficult. If someone is dressed up as Chun Li and you ask her who she plays in Street Fighter and she doesn't have an answer or answers Tifa then you've got your answer.

If you can't tell if someone shares your hobby after five minutes of talking to them then you're a fucking moron. I'm a gamer yes, but I'm not a WoW player. If I show up to your Warcraft convention as a Tauren but I can't tell you shit about Azeroth I fucking fail.

If I didn't get that kind of hostility it would be like pretending I didn't exist for . . .really most of my entire life.

 

[Recidiva]

Yes you can. It's not difficult. If someone is dressed up as Chun Li and you ask her who she plays in Street Fighter and she doesn't have an answer or answers Tifa then you've got your answer.

If you can't tell if someone shares your hobby after five minutes of talking to them then you're a fucking moron. I'm a gamer yes, but I'm not a WoW player. If I show up to your Warcraft convention as a Tauren but I can't tell you shit about Azeroth I fucking fail.

If I didn't get that kind of hostility it would be like pretending I didn't exist for . . .really most of my entire life.

Cosplay takes a lot of work. If you can tell that they are Chun Li at all...and that's harder that Tifa, who is mostly long hair and a pair of shorts and gloves.

I'd say putting together the outfit counts as effort.

Anyway.

I disagree with the preciousness of your time spent playing. I disagree with the entitlement you feel. I disagree with being upset that a woman is getting attention. I disagree with your sense that you should be getting the attention she's getting because you're a real gamer or that you should be getting her attention because you are a male.

That's the crux of the problem and has always been - the unwillingness to give a non-confirmed woman respect and the unwillingness to allow a confirmed woman respect or status.

It's all bullshit. From what I see about the whole Cosplay thing, it is pretty much just about attention and jealousy.

It's not like you personally are going to insult her or give her shit, but you've expressed the exact problem, in its larval form.

When it has evolved like a petty, cruel and vicious Pokémon, it's a different story.

 

[eyer]

The thread: Crimes of Passion

The thread question: "Commit any?"

Recidiva the Sex Offender's Own Words Verbatim:

Recidiva the Sex Offender

"Carnal involvement with a minor, I imagine, in my case."

Recidiva the Sex Offender

"There was a guy I knew on the internet when I was in my 20s. Good gamer, tough talker, smart and funny. Ran a BDSM bondage sideline of cyber. The kinda guy that who when someone was threatening to come to my house and rape me, would say "Hah. Tell him you don't think he could get you off."

He had a cover story that he was in his 30s but had confessed to one nice lady that he was only ** or so at the time. He and I became involved online and although I knew he how old he was, he didn't confess it for a few months, after which time I just said "Yes, I know."

I did get to meet him when his family traveled near to where I live, we met and fooled around a bit in the front seat of a car. I think he was ** at the time.

Seriously, I couldn't have corrupted this guy, if anything I rehabilitated him."

Recidiva the Sex Offender

"Mid to late 20s if I recall correctly."

Recidiva the Sex Offender

"Well, he was one of the guys I was messing around with at the same time, probably one in six."

Recidiva the Sex Offender

"I had a roleplay relationship with him"

Recidiva the Sex Offender

"...was it still outside of what is considered lawful? Yes."

Recidiva the Sex Offender

"Do I think I could have been charged with a crime? Yep."

Recidiva the Sex Offender

"If my daughter or son had a relationship with a person that much older, would I freak out? Hell yes."

.....

 

[hssh345Alt]

oh, boy, eyer,
so predictable…
You geeks keep going, I enjoy watching your discussion

 

[Recidiva]

Oh, eyer. It's the weekend, I will be seeing more of you, yes?

It's a gamer thread, so here is a demotivational Fem Hawke.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm not denying that cosplaying takes work. (Though I would argue Chun Li is super easy to pull off recognizably if not well) That however makes you a talented artist, seamstress, and model. Not a gamer. Just like the guy who paints my figurines doesn't know how to play Warhammer. And I can't paint to save my life. If I try to paint they at best look like I hired a blind donkey. This has nothing to do with disrespecting their talent nor their passion.

Half of your disagreements aren't even things I said. IT's not about time spent playing but knowledge of the field. Feel free to disagree with my entitlement. That's your perogative. I dont' care that she's getting attention, I do however understand why others are. Whether or not I should be getting her attention isn't really the point here. IT's really more a matter of if she should be there to begin with.

I don't give non-confirmed anybody respect nor do I ask anything extra of women.

Call it jealousy if you like. You're not wrong. But 90% of everything in humanity is driven by jealousy so I'm simply not going to cry about that.

Oh, I get what the problem is. I think it's largely exaggerated for one, easily explainable in many cases for two, and yes in need of fixing. Hell half the problem you run into in some games is there is no effective way to solve it. You can't defend the woman because then you're only stepping up because she's a woman if she weren't you'd let her deal with her own shit. Which is debatably true. I tend to just have a "THAT'S ENOUGH" and I don't care who started what gender, sex, screwing up the game whatever but I see why I've gotten my head bitten off and it does make me more likely to sit back and assume she'll figure it out or sign out and either way problem solved.

(Though decades upon decades of research show that women are inferior gamers when all is said and done.)