Democratic Primary Fucktussle!

[JackLuis]

I think all of the Democratic Party candidates are "law and order" in that sense. Are there any Democratic Party candidates--any serious candidates--who have not come out for impeachment of Trump, something that the Democrats in Congress, as a force, haven't done?

No, I mean some one to actually DO something, not whine or "Look Forward, not Back."

Kamala is the only one with the guts to actually do it, but will the Establishment let her?.

 

[Dumpington]

KeithD writes: "Quite interested to see how the next poll numbers change."

Not as much as you might think. Despite Joe Biden's terrible debate performance, the former V.P. continues to comfortably lead in the latest polls, with 31.4% of the Democrats still backing his candidacy! The OTHER old white guy (Bernie) remains in 2nd-place with 16.9% support... after that, it's Liz Warren at 12.6... Kamala's at 7.8... Buttigieg has 6.5... Beto (who also looked terrible) has 3.0... Booker is at 2.3... with the remaining 19.5% divided among the remaining 17-candidates.

Carnal Flower asks: "Why didn't ONE person ask: 'What is the worst thing Trump has done in office, in your opinion?'"

Those MSNBC moderators were all doing their best to HELP the Democratic Party, which is why they instead asked stupid questions about issues that they thought would best fire-up the party's liberal base. This party's got NOTHING to run on, other than that they all hate President Trump and want health care for illegals paid for by American taxpayers!

JayCuck writes: "'Orange Man Bad' won't convince moderates to vote democratic, and it'll likely just push them away. Trump is the 'devil they know', and with this economy they'll likely stick with him. Democrats should broaden their appeal. If for no other reason than to make it a contest. At this rate, we're heading into Mondale defeat territory."

Excellent points, Jay - and might I also point out that your above reference to Walter Mondale is spot on - Mondale was ALSO a former vice president running against an incumbent G.O.P. president (Walter = "Gropin' Joe?"), and in '84 Mondale won a total of one-state and the District of Columbia in one of the worst landslide defeats ever suffered by ANY political party in all of U.S. history!

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Wrong.

They're on the right side of public opinion on all issues:

--rescind the tax giveaway to the rich
-transition to universal healthcare while shoring up the ACA
-Climate change is real
-common sense gun reform
-humane treatment of migrants
-authorize DACA
-pass HR1 on voting rights
-repeal Citizens United and get Dark Money out of politics
-Repair our relationship with NATO and stop praising dictators
-Stop corruption in the Administration

The list goes on. Every issue has majority support in the US. You're on the losing side across the board.

KeithD writes: "Quite interested to see how the next poll numbers change."

Not as much as you might think. Despite Joe Biden's terrible debate performance, the former V.P. continues to comfortably lead in the latest polls, with 31.4% of the Democrats still backing his candidacy! The OTHER old white guy (Bernie) remains in 2nd-place with 16.9% support... after that, it's Liz Warren at 12.6... Kamala's at 7.8... Buttigieg has 6.5... Beto (who also looked terrible) has 3.0... Booker is at 2.3... with the remaining 19.5% divided among the remaining 17-candidates.

Carnal Flower asks: "Why didn't ONE person ask: 'What is the worst thing Trump has done in office, in your opinion?'"

Those MSNBC moderators were all doing their best to HELP the Democratic Party, which is why they instead asked stupid questions about issues that they thought would best fire-up the party's liberal base. This party's got NOTHING to run on, other than that they all hate President Trump and want health care for illegals paid for by American taxpayers!

JayCuck writes: "'Orange Man Bad' won't convince moderates to vote democratic, and it'll likely just push them away. Trump is the 'devil they know', and with this economy they'll likely stick with him. Democrats should broaden their appeal. If for no other reason than to make it a contest. At this rate, we're heading into Mondale defeat territory."

Excellent points, Jay - and might I also point out that your above reference to Walter Mondale is spot on - Mondale was ALSO a former vice president running against an incumbent G.O.P. president (Walter = "Gropin' Joe?"), and in '84 Mondale won a total of one-state and the District of Columbia in one of the worst landslide defeats ever suffered by ANY political party in all of U.S. history!

 

[KeithD]

I haven't seen the first poll after the debates, but the TV coverage said Harris came up to match Warren at 12 percent. Those aren't the figures Dump is quoted as giving. Which are correct?

 

[Dumpington]

KeithD writes: "I haven't seen the first poll after the debates, but the TV coverage said Harris came up to match Warren at 12 percent. Those aren't the figures Dump is quoted as giving. Which are correct?"

There are a LOT of different polls out there, Keith, and I'm sure you're right about Kamala & Liz being tied in at least one of them. The numbers I use are from the RealClearPolitics.com national averages, which changes daily.

RCP also has separate polls for the states of Iowa & New Hampshire, which will host the first caucuses & primaries! In IOWA, Biden leads, but with only 25.0% support... Bernie's in 2nd with 18.3... Buttigieg is 3rd with 12.0... Liz has 10.0... Kamala is at 6.3... Beto has 4.3... and Amy Klobuchar clocks-in in at 3.5%!

In NEW HAMPSHIRE, it's Biden at 29.7%... Bernie is a disappointing 16.7... Liz has 11.0... Buttigieg is at 10.3... Kamala's got 6.3... Beto's at 3.0... and Booker's got 2.7%! In ALL of the polling it's "Gropin' Joe" at the top and Bernie in second!

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ - (RealClearPolitics polls can all be found here!)

 

[KeithD]

OK, I found the poll. It isn't as Dump gave it.

 

[Dumpington]

KeithD writes: "OK, I found the poll. It isn't as Dump gave it."

As I mentioned earlier, Keith - the RealClearPolitics national polling averages change everyday!

I just now checked it, and Joe Biden is DOWN to 29.9% (but still the leader)... Bernie stands at 17.0% in 2nd-place... Liz has moved upwards to 13.4... Kamala is also up to 10.0... followed by Buttigieg at 6.0... Beto's down to 2.6... and Cory Booker is hanging on at 2.3.

It's CLEAR to me that the rest of the pack is going to have to begin dropping out, as they're all woefully weak, which means that the money's going to begin drying-up! Will the others eventually catch-up to the two old white men still leading the charge? That remains to be seen!

 

[Carnal_Flower]

We did run on those issues in 2018 and won the biggest landslide in the House in 40 yrs.

Strangely, the Tax Cut and Jobs Act is known now as the Tax Giveaway to the Rich. You lost that narrative.

You can do the Kellyanne Spin but it will only sell to the brainwashed Fox audience. When stated FACTUALLY the Dems win.

Carnal Flower...Public Opinion changes on each of these topics, based upon how the poll questions are phrased. Let me demonstrate.

1. Rescind Tax Giveaway = Raise Taxes
2. Universal Healthcare = Private Insurance Goes Away
3. Climate Change is Real = Government Control of Everything (Cap & Trade is just a start).
4. Common Sense Gun Control = Repeal the 2nd Amendment & Confiscate All Guns
5. Humane Treatment of Migrants = Open Borders
6. Authorize DACA = Automatic Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants
7. Pass HR1 Voting Rights = Legislative Voter Fraud
8. Repeal Citizens United = Only our side can contribute Money to Politics
9. Repair our Position with NATO = Stop asking them to contribute.
10. Stop Praising Dictators = Only the left can praise dictators (think cuba).
11. Stop Corruption = Only our side can be corrupt.

These aren't political positions. It's a wish list. You might as well say 'amen' after your done reciting them in the mirror.

None of these positions, accurately expressed to voters, are popular outside the hard left. The public is not in favor of them...no matter how much you wish for it. Some of them are blatantly unconstitutional, and most are simply unaffordable. We do have 22 Trillion in Debt (10 Trillion is due to Obama).

But...don't listen to me. Please. Please. Please continue to run on these issues.

 

[Ezeerider]

If you truly believe...

And socialism is still anti-American....and the communist utopia is still a fantasy.

...that socialism is "...anti-American..." I'd suggest that, between now and the upcoming election, you go back and do a hard cram on U.S. History 101. You've completely missed the boat on that period, and as a result you've also come to believe what those who now comprise the ruling class have so smoothly sold you.
I would agree, though, that communism is not only a fantasy, but a cruel hoax that ignores basic human characteristics.
My personal belief is that we desperately need some sort of synthesis comprised of elements of socialism and capitalism, since neither can survive in their present configuration.

 

[KeithD]

Not even the official communists are communist anymore--and haven't been for a couple of decades. That's just an empty "wish word" the Trumpettes use to make themselves feel like they have a point.

And its easy to use "socialism" as a dirty word without considering the nuances that make all existing government forms have some aspects of socialism in the mix and even to ignore that's what you are getting every day and depend on getting in many aspects of your life.

Just empty Trumpette sputtering.

 

[Ezeerider]

A largely different perspective

"During last night's Democratic debate, Kamala Harris called out Joe Biden for statements and actions that were personally hurtful to her as a black woman. This was inspirational.

I could not disagree more. What Harris did last night pretty well erased my own previously-held perception of her and her abilities and political mores, and was, in my view, hardly "inspirational" in any way.

No, it was a totally sleazy and well-planned-in-advance cheap shot, well below the belt, and was all that's disgusting about politics at the level we now see them, no matter from the left or right.

Biden's original comment did not in any way glorify the racist pigs he mentioned, and she knows that. He simply used those extremes to illustrate the fact that he could, as one must in a democracy, work even with scumbags like them to accomplish what we must, at times, since they were also elected by someone(s) with their own views and convictions. It's a fact of life in a democracy. Hell, look who he's forced to work with now!

No, when Biden came back and stated his willingness to match his record on civil rights with anyone who'd care to challenge it, she ignored that and pulled the huge race card up from behind the podium (complete with adorable child photo - pre-prepared) and then, when he pointed out that neither he nor his colleagues had anything to do with those bussing decisions, since they were made on a local level, she attempted to stop his reasoned response by shouting over him with completely irrelevant responses about how the federal government should be involved, etc., which he could have had no power to change at that time. The fact remains that he was opposed to those local decisions, but they were not in his power to stop or even alter, and she knows that, but kept up the unwarranted attack anyway, which I find despicable, especially considering what's at stake here.

Sorry, but Harris took the discussion to a Trumpian low with those tactics. Joe ain't perfect, but there's no way she can overcome his long and clear record in hard battles for civil rights and work for the common man. It's just huge. He may be white, but he's built a record that she, though black, cannot even begin to approach at this point, and her attempt to do so speaks volumes about who she really is, which would now appear to be just another opportunist attempting to climb over the backs of those who have made it possible for her to get as far as she has.

Also noted, was the fact that she attempted to ignore Biden when he so poignantly pointed out that, while she had chosen to become a prosecutor, he had left a very good career in a private firm and taken a huge pay cut to take on the duties of a public defender - actually walking his talk. Pow!! But then, what was she going to respond with?

No thanks. I'll look elsewhere for inspiration ... and someone far more likely to beat Trump. I believe the Ds have got to get strongly behind Biden and stay there, and find an equally strong running mate if they hope to beat even the worst president in American history.

 

[Dumpington]

Carnal Flower writes: "We did run on those issues in 2018 and won the biggest landslide in the House in 40 yrs."

Seriously? The "biggest landslide in the House in 40-years?" Okay, so President Trump's Republicans lost 40-House seats in 2018, while the G.O.P. GAINED two-seats in the U.S. Senate, correct?

You obviously never heard of the 1994 mid-term elections, when Bill Clinton's Democratic Party lost a whopping 54-House & 8-Senate seats - OR the 2010 mid-term elections, when Barack Obama's Democratic Party lost an incredible 63-House & 6-Senate seats! Now THAT'S what an enormous LANDSLIDE LOSS looks like!

"Strangely, the Tax Cut and Jobs Act is known now as the Tax Giveaway to the Rich. You lost that narrative."

The Democratic Party dislikes the concept of people keeping more of their own money that they've earned! Today's Democrats would much rather use that money to buy health care for people entering the United States illegally! Did you see all of those Democratic Party presidential candidates raising their hands when the MSNBC debate moderators asked that exact question?

"You can do the Kellyanne Spin but it will only sell to the brainwashed Fox audience. When stated FACTUALLY the Dems win."

Bullsh*t - the Democrats dislike this country as much as they dislike President Trump! They are the party of Colin Kaepernick, Jussie Smollett, & Megan Rapinoe!

KeithD writes: "And its easy to use "socialism" as a dirty word..."

Give it a rest, Keith. Socialism is a failed economic system that's resulted in human suffering & oppression all across the planet. It strangles economic growth and human initiative everywhere it's ever been tried! Everybody knows it sucks balls except the U.S. Democratic Party (and its Antifa allies!)

 

[badbabysitter]

Carnal Flower writes: "We did run on those issues in 2018 and won the biggest landslide in the House in 40 yrs."

Seriously? The "biggest landslide in the House in 40-years?" Okay, so President Trump's Republicans lost 40-House seats in 2018, while the G.O.P. GAINED two-seats in the U.S. Senate, correct?




You obviously never heard of the 1994 mid-term elections, when Bill Clinton's Democratic Party lost a whopping 54-House & 8-Senate seats - OR the 2010 mid-term elections, when Barack Obama's Democratic Party lost an incredible 63-House & 6-Senate seats! Now THAT'S what an enormous LANDSLIDE LOSS looks like!

Yet, the Senate vote had ll million more Democrat votes then REp

to put that in context, in 2016.. Hillary had 2 million more votes than Trump


that's an increase in votes of over 500%

somehow you think your opponents voting margin growing by 500 per cent is a win for you

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I wasn 't referring to Number of seats, I was referring to the vote:

Not since the Watergate scandal have Democrats run up such a large margin of victory in midterm House races, NBC News data showed.

With votes continuing to be tallied more than two weeks after Election Day, Democrats hold a lead over Republicans in the House popular vote by more than 8.6 million votes.

That's the largest total victory in a midterm House election since Democrats defeated Republicans by more than 8.7 million votes in 1974, just months after President Richard Nixon resigned from office in disgrace.

Regardless of how it stands historically, my point was you said if Dems run on the talking points I mentioned they are absolutely sure to lose: Um, no, the opposite is true. They're proven winners.

The Republicans ran on . . . the threat of migrant caravans bwa ha ha. And Trump's only going to double down on that losing strategy. They couldn't even run on the Tax Giveaway, because it's such a total loser politically.

You have nothing to run on except a tax plan everyone hates and a wall that still isn't built.


Right. And the Republican Party is the party of Trump's Lies, Cabinet members all resigning in disgrace, Pro Life nuts (big loser politically) and Baby Jails.

Carnal Flower writes: "We did run on those issues in 2018 and won the biggest landslide in the House in 40 yrs."

Seriously? The "biggest landslide in the House in 40-years?" Okay, so President Trump's Republicans lost 40-House seats in 2018, while the G.O.P. GAINED two-seats in the U.S. Senate, correct?

You obviously never heard of the 1994 mid-term elections, when Bill Clinton's Democratic Party lost a whopping 54-House & 8-Senate seats - OR the 2010 mid-term elections, when Barack Obama's Democratic Party lost an incredible 63-House & 6-Senate seats! Now THAT'S what an enormous LANDSLIDE LOSS looks like!

"Strangely, the Tax Cut and Jobs Act is known now as the Tax Giveaway to the Rich. You lost that narrative."

The Democratic Party dislikes the concept of people keeping more of their own money that they've earned! Today's Democrats would much rather use that money to buy health care for people entering the United States illegally! Did you see all of those Democratic Party presidential candidates raising their hands when the MSNBC debate moderators asked that exact question?

"You can do the Kellyanne Spin but it will only sell to the brainwashed Fox audience. When stated FACTUALLY the Dems win."

Bullsh*t - the Democrats dislike this country as much as they dislike President Trump! They are the party of Colin Kaepernick, Jussie Smollett, & Megan Rapinoe!

KeithD writes: "And its easy to use "socialism" as a dirty word..."

Give it a rest, Keith. Socialism is a failed economic system that's resulted in human suffering & oppression all across the planet. It strangles economic growth and human initiative everywhere it's ever been tried! Everybody knows it sucks balls except the U.S. Democratic Party (and its Antifa allies!)

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yet, the Senate vote had ll million more Democrat votes then REp

to put that in context, in 2016.. Hillary had 2 million more votes than Trump


that's an increase in votes of over 500%

somehow you think your opponents voting margin growing by 500 per cent is a win for you

Keep ignoring the reality that states elect POTUS, not people.

That 500% is in 2-3 states, so unless a bunch of folks moved to some midwestern states, some southern states or Texas, it's really irrelevant....just like 3 million more votes for HRC.

 

[ishtat]

"During last night's Democratic debate, Kamala Harris called out Joe Biden for statements and actions that were personally hurtful to her as a black woman. This was inspirational.

I could not disagree more. What Harris did last night pretty well erased my own previously-held perception of her and her abilities and political mores, and was, in my view, hardly "inspirational" in any way.

You miss the point altogether. The particular issue was of no importance at this stage. The important fact is that Biden was put under pressure - and he started to crumble.

Biden should have been ready and come back swinging hard. Instead he foolishly responded to her jibe letting her control the agenda and was weak in response.

Harris is too good a cross examiner to use the same issue again because Joe will have answers ready next time. But if she corners him again his donors will start to melt away.

What Harris was actually saying was "I'm the only one tough enough to beat up Trump." That was the real message, and if she can keep that up Biden will be in strife.

 

[KeithD]

Biden should have been ready and come back swinging hard. Instead he foolishly responded to her jibe letting her control the agenda and was weak in response.

This. Biden and his people had every reason to know the issue would come up. He wasn't prepared and he was slow and "not good enough" off the mark. He's known to be a good debater, so the concern this raises is that he's slowed down too much for the long haul on this. The old-age concern bit him.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

This plus What will be your first priority as President?

Biden: "Getting rid of Donald Trump."

That was a senior moment.

This. Biden and his people had every reason to know the issue would come up. He wasn't prepared and he was slow and "not good enough" off the mark. He's known to be a good debater, so the concern this raises is that he's slowed down too much for the long haul on this. The old-age concern bit him.

 

[Ezeerider]

Issues are now not the point?

You miss the point altogether. The particular issue was of no importance at this stage. The important fact is that Biden was put under pressure - and he started to crumble.

Biden should have been ready and come back swinging hard. Instead he foolishly responded to her jibe letting her control the agenda and was weak in response.

Harris is too good a cross examiner to use the same issue again because Joe will have answers ready next time. But if she corners him again his donors will start to melt away.

What Harris was actually saying was "I'm the only one tough enough to beat up Trump." That was the real message, and if she can keep that up Biden will be in strife.

When I hear someone say to me, in this context, that "The particular issue was of no importance..." And then actually assert that I'm the one who has missed the point, I am reminded of one of the huge reasons why our politics have reached the nadir that they - and we - have, since it's a classic example of attempting to put form over substance; image over reality, all of which are the illusions, I believe, of those who have come up in the age of media, which have by their very nature a disdain for substance. Media live by images and illusions, and that's what they sell. (Think about the adorable child photo Harris shamelessly waved about at a critical moment to support an irrelevant argument.) Now tell me how Joe Biden was going to be ready for a sleazy play like that - from someone in his own party!

However, if you saw someone crumbling under the attack, I'd have to wonder how you arrived at that conclusion, since he hardly crumbled in any way. On the contrary, my friend, he kept slugging hard with logic and reason and his own clear record - which he immediately and directly challenged her to refute - and followed that with the reminder that, while she chose the path of being a prosecutor for the power structure, he on the other hand, chose to defend those who have no means to stand up to that structure on their own. But she failed to respond to that as well.

I invite you to go back and actually listen carefully to what was being said by both parties in that exchange, and then see if you still see it the same way. She was actually just yelling and ranting by that time, and carelessly avoided addressing any of the points he was scoring.

No, Biden hardly crumbled in any way. He was over there making his points, but you had to struggle to hear him, since she, having made a bad mistake in coming at him in that lane, tried the old tactic of substituting sheer volume for substance, attempting to drown out the voice of reason. That wasn't tough. It was just weak and rude, and she should apologize to him and to us for her weakness and lack of grace in that moment. She can't hope to beat Trump by becoming him.

I'll bet Faux News sent her a fruit basket.

 

[KeithD]

However, if you saw someone crumbling under the attack, I'd have to wonder how you arrived at that conclusion, since he hardly crumbled in any way.

I answered that. Apparently you decided that didn't meet your opinion so you ignored it. How long have you been around? Having married into his Delaware core base, I've observed Biden pretty up close for some fifty years. The established Biden isn't as slow off the mark and as unprepared as Biden was in the debate. He's gotten old and has suffered multiple family tragedies. More shouldn't be expected of him (and it wouldn't hinder his ability to be an effective president. Being president isn't a stage debate or a reality TV show). It doesn't matter what the quality of the attack was, he did crumble under it in comparison to his established capabilities over the past half century. He was slow off the mark and then not on the mark with his responses--throughout the debate. It's a pity. But it's also a reason why he lost ground from the debate.

Again, how long have you been around?

 

[JackLuis]

Today's Poll Numbers 7/2/19

Quinnipiac

Biden 22,
Sanders 13,
Warren 14,
Harris 20,
Buttigieg 4,

O'Rourke 1, Booker 3, Gabbard 1, Yang 1, Castro 1, Klobuchar 1, Gillibrand 0, de Blasio 0

Democrats and Democratic leaners were also asked which candidate they thought had the best chance of winning against President Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election, regardless of who they support in the primary. Biden tops the field with 42 percent, which is a drop from the 56 percent that he received on April 30. Harris comes in a distant second with 14 percent in today's poll, up from 2 percent in April. Sanders receives 13 percent, and no other candidate reaches double digits.

Real Clear Politics

RCP has the #'s for the last week or more. Shows the changing #'s, before and after the debates.
Kamala did good last Thursday, but as the people learn about the others, some pick up a few points. It is still a long way to the primaries.

 

[Ezeerider]

Seniority writes

I answered that. Apparently you decided that didn't meet your opinion so you ignored it. How long have you been around? Having married into his Delaware core base, I've observed Biden pretty up close for some fifty years. The established Biden isn't as slow off the mark and as unprepared as Biden was in the debate. He's gotten old and has suffered multiple family tragedies. More shouldn't be expected of him (and it wouldn't hinder his ability to be an effective president. Being president isn't a stage debate or a reality TV show). It doesn't matter what the quality of the attack was, he did crumble under it in comparison to his established capabilities over the past half century. He was slow off the mark and then not on the mark with his responses--throughout the debate. It's a pity. But it's also a reason why he lost ground from the debate.

Again, how long have you been around?

Well, no, I can't say that you did answer much. You did present your views, but with all due respect for them and your right to do so, little of substance behind them in support.
She simply put all she had into a low and cheap shot, and then got exceedingly shrill in her effort to drown the man's voice out, rather than to engage in actual debate with him, thereby clearly demonstrating her tactical error and her inability to recover with either substance or grace.

Once again, my friend, before any further response on your part, please go back and listen to what each of them said. With all that is at stake here, I must say that to keep insisting that the quality or substance of her attack - or any other, then - makes no difference, simply defies logic, and again takes us down to the darkest depths of both reason and politics; which is pretty much why we're facing the situation we are today. America has simply got to go back to thinking beyond the most current sound bite, and the idea that critical thinking means Siskel & Ebert.

Here, once again, I see the Democrats responding to attack by assuming their most familiar position; that of the circular firing squad. This kind of stuff with Biden is just a classic example.

I think polls this far out hardly merit much real attention, but as they show right now, there's nobody else in that line-up that's got any real chance of beating Trump's fanatic base (see above). The sad thing is that before anyone can beat Trump, they've got to beat their own party into some semblance of a coherent body. Nobody else can come close to Biden's demonstrated ability to do that. He gets respect from both sides of the aisle.

Perhaps most importantly, Biden's got the experience; he's got the creds with the working class and minorities; after all these years he's got pockets stuffed with chits to call in and he knows where the bodies are buried. That's all powerful stuff in politics, and the lack of those was largely responsible for Obama's failure to accomplish far more than he did. The same would be true for most of those attempting to challenge Biden now.

Again, I'm no Joe-worshiper, and don't register with either party, though I cannot help but lean left, generally speaking, and tend to vote that way, but he's far and away the best shot the Ds have got, and it's a long way to 2nd place.

I say these things (to also answer your most persistent question) as one who has lived with and written about politicians and politics on the local, state and national level for decades now, in various media and in several states. Mostly in a different format, however. While I enjoy the anonymity we have here, I will offer this from a guy named Juvenal of around the 1st and 2nd centuries, and those who know me may recognize it: "It is difficult not to write satire."

Has it ever been more true?

 

[KeithD]

- - nevermind. Not worth the effort - -

 

[Dumpington]

Ezeerider writes (about Joe Biden): "...there's nobody else in that line-up that's got any real chance of beating Trump's fanatic base (see above). The sad thing is that before anyone can beat Trump, they've got to beat their own party into some semblance of a coherent body. Nobody else can come close to Biden's demonstrated ability to do that. He gets respect from both sides of the aisle."

I completely disagree with you about Joe Biden!

The guy's got ONE THING going for him, and that one thing is that he used to be Barack Obama's vice president! But Obama seemingly wants NOTHING to do with Joe anymore! He's not endorsing or helping his old running-mate in any way, shape, or form!

Biden clearly believes that he's OWED the nomination after his many years of loyal service (just like Hillary Clinton in 2016), but most of his own party isn't sharing that opinion. The way they beat-him-up on the debate stage last week makes it clear that he's NOT getting the Hillary treatment, and will instead have to fight tooth-&-nail for this one! And it certainly didn't start off well last week!

And that's BAD NEWS for Joe, as he's a TERRIBLE presidential candidate! His first presidential run began over thirty years ago, and that initial "Biden for President" campaign didn't even last four months, as he withdrew from the 1988 Democratic Party's nomination fight in September of '87! Twenty years later, Biden tried again, but again called it quits after a 5th-place finish in the 2008 Iowa caucuses! Why Obama picked "Gropin' Joe" to be his running-mate remains anybody's guess!

 

[JackLuis]

CNN will determine debate lineup via live drawing

CNN will conduct a live drawing in order to determine the lineup for each of the two-part debates scheduled to take place this month.

The debate, which is scheduled for July 30 and 31, will have 10 candidates on the stage each night, and the live drawing will be conducted nearly two weeks earlier, on July 18, the network announced Monday.

Dana Bash, Don Lemon, and Jake Tapper will moderate the debate.

At this point, 19 of the 20 total participants from the first debate will be on the stage for the second one. California Rep. Eric Swalwell, who dropped out Monday afternoon, will likely be replaced with Montana Gov. Steve Bullock, who would have gotten the final spot over Swalwell as a result of the tiebreaker anyway.

Less Eric, more Bullock!