Content guidelines question: Celebrities, prostitution, places and events similar to real ones

[ChimilDetin]

Hi again,

Thanks, all, for your surprisingly large amount of quick feedback. I wasn't expecting all that in just a few hours (!).

As I'm reading this, I have a feeling what I've written thus far will never see the light of day. Valid points all around, not to mention that yeah, Swift is kind of a touchy subject.

To answer a few points in the thread:

• Part of the reason Swift makes a compelling topic for a site like this is because she's very careful to be sexy without being sexual. Let's be frank: The lips, the eyes, the hair ... she is, objectively, a spectacularly attractive woman. Yet, unlike other many of the sexy popstars of the past 40 years — Madonna, Britney, Christina, Ariana Grande — she hasn't had her "I'm letting you know I love sex" turn yet, like Madonna's book, Britney going all in on no longer being innocent, Christina's "dirrrty" phase and so on. Swift's thing has more been to emphasize her confidence and assertiveness, but without implying sex has anything to do with it. It's made her highly marketable, but has also given her an air of unattainability. I think that's also part of her appeal, though: "I'm so confident and hot and beloved by my fans that I'm too good for anyone but me and the man I pick, which I've had to work on but seem to have found one." To explore how sex would play into her personality, were it introduced, is part of the fascination.
• A running theme for Swift through what I had written was how the money is largely trivial to her. In agreeing to take the bet, I had her talking with a fictionalized version of her publicist and Travis. The publicist laughs off the idea, but Travis kinda likes it: He notes his contract only guarantees him so many millions for so long, then his earning potential is done. Plus, he tells how he had once been to such a club and enjoyed himself. His injury early in the story, if anything, only serves as a reminder to Swift that you have to do such things while you can.
• Where the money does come into play is comparing Swift with other dancers. Her mentor, Jessica, mostly loves sex and her job, but has learned to tolerate doing some things she sees as less than ideal to stay in the business, like getting big implants that she eventually wants removed and learning to orgasm with little to no assistance. She does this to make the money needed to take care of herself and her daughter.
• The contrast between Taylor and Jessica drives much of the story's content. Jessica serves to remind Taylor that it's not so easy for a lot of women who didn't, and don't, have her circumstances, like a wealthy upbringing and great genes.
• Furthermore, the dancer who turns on Taylor, Rebecca, has a number of unfortunate things happen in the story. Taylor unwittingly steals her dancer name and a couple of her customers. Then, in a moment when it seems Swift's dancer turn will be exposed publicly, mistaken identity almost leads to Rebecca's being a dancer being made public, which puts her in a perilous situation, as she, too, is trying to dance in secret. The result is "dancer drama" as Rebecca, who is largely on her last chance to overcome big issues and support her family, confronts Taylor.
• While prostitution plays into the story, for Swift's character, it's more about getting her into an environment where she can explore her sexuality with multiple partners, and compare her life situation with that of a number of other people, quickly.
• The money is there, and is discussed, but often more to show the difference between how people with it are empowered by it, but people without it need to find ways to get it. Swift's character doesn't need it, and she makes that clear — she discovers just how enjoyable sex can be and finds herself searching for contentment, happiness and pleasure. But some of the other characters do need that money. The dynamic of Swift being able to largely get away with being a tease and make billions, while others have to work in such clubs and barely scrape by, is a big driver of the story and Swift's transformation in the story.

Anyhow, part of the reason I want to ask is, while the first part of this story did pour out of me this week, I saw the terms and guidelines as I went to think about uploading what I had already wrote and thought, "Maybe I'm just wasting my time." And I think I'm probably right in that I was.

Hey, sometimes the ideas that swim in our heads are best meant to stay there, right?

 

[AchtungNight]

Sounds like your conception of Taylor is similar to my conception of Erika Christensen in my stories. This B-list (my opinion) actress discovers she really enjoys sex and gets into consensual polyamory with no lasting negative repercussions despite growing up sheltered in a controversial religious community. Other characters I’ve written are similar. They have their own drama and various issues, but it’s supposed to be a positive story. A bit harder to pull off when you throw prostitution and unethical gambling into the mix. Maybe a different premise? Taylor probably does enjoy sex for all we know, she just hasn’t found hyping that side of herself necessary to her success. Probably a good thing in some facets of today’s society. If you can pull the story off without the nonconsensual plot elements, I might give it more support. Good luck.

 

[XerXesXu]

Change her name to Tinker Swallows. A nod's as good as a wank to a blonde whore.

 

[ChimilDetin]

Sounds like your conception of Taylor is similar to my conception of Erika Christensen in my stories. This B-list (my opinion) actress discovers she really enjoys sex and gets into consensual polyamory with no lasting negative repercussions despite growing up sheltered in a controversial religious community. Other characters I’ve written are similar. They have their own drama and various issues, but it’s supposed to be a positive story. A bit harder to pull off when you throw prostitution and unethical gambling into the mix. Maybe a different premise? Taylor probably does enjoy sex for all we know, she just hasn’t found hyping that side of herself necessary to her success. Probably a good thing in some facets of today’s society. If you can pull the story off without the nonconsensual plot elements, I might give it more support. Good luck.

I think you get it.

It does seem there are reasons Taylor hasn't taken that over-the-top turn I mentioned other stars have above.

• "I just don't want to" is one possible reason, and while that's more than fine, it's not the one we'd have her take in this story
• "It's not good for business and that's more important to me" is another
• "I just haven't had those experiences yet and need to have them first, but am scared I might not like it or it might be all wrong" is another

It could even be other, less savory things, but obviously those aren't great to ponder.

Far be it for us to actually know, but we can speculate.

Add in her well-publicized past relationships, some of which have become content for her music, and it's difficult not to think there's something amiss related to her approach to intimacy. When the super-popular, pretty, talented girl from the rich family who becomes an international superstar just can't get relationships right, despite umpteen suitors, some of whom are the world's most famous and sought-after men, I don't think we can be blamed for being curious.

The circumstances of her dating a football player, in addition to a team from Detroit having success for the first time in forever this season and the hype and craziness that brings to many a city, made the scenario pop in my head. It seemed too perfect.

I have frequented clubs in a variety of places and can verify the culture of Detroit's clubs is ... very different. I have found out a lot about myself and my own sexuality with experiences in Detroit. Jessica & Rebecca were based in part on dancers I've met.

I took steps in what I had written thus far to make it known the wager was largely secondary for everyone involved. The flamboyant club figure ends up spending most of the money he had put up, anyway, despite Swift following through. I set it up so the $1 million was money he was willing to spend to make Taylor and his good "employees" feel as comfortable as they can if she followed through.

It all seemed right: A rare, realistic, timely reason to put someone who markets being sexy, but toes the line of chasteness for one reason or another, in a situation where she gets to be a fish out of water with a mentor to guide her through exploring sexuality in a more real, raw way. Also a multi-faceted story where the lives and worlds of everyone could be transformed by being exposed to people and scenarios they'd largely avoided but weren't as bad as they thought.

I saw this as a chance for a character like Swift's to find a more instinctive joy: To explore the sexual side she, for one reason or another, hasn't, while also being exposed to people who need that atmosphere to the point where they have to be there, whether for pleasure or cash, and might not always enjoy it as much. Accordingly, I wanted Swift's character to have good and bad experiences, to truly relate, to understand just how good she has it, and to know how much better she could have it if she could just add some of what she learns about to all the good she already has going for her.

Also, I really wanted the Jessica character to look good in the end: A sex worker who's a little rough around the edges, but also someone who has heart, helps people, is very good at what she does and has truly overcome far bigger struggles than Swift and most people to find happiness and different forms of success in her own way.

I'm struggling to think of such an on-the-nose way to get Swift into such a scenario that doesn't either involve a place like the clubs I'm thinking of, or the activities described. Not using Swift's name would lose some of the subtleties of her image. Taking out the wager/prostitution/club element makes it difficult to create a scenario where someone wouldn't get uncomfortable and say, "Nope, I'm out," making it too implausible. I saw part of the drama as surrounding dealing with, and overcoming, anxiety and discomfort about sex. And yeah, part of the story's conflict would come from the fact Swift has wealth, but many of the dancers she'd be around do not.

But, as I have the story now, consensus is it's against the rules. Accordingly, no story.

It is what it is.

 

[ChimilDetin]

Aside: My goal here was neither Swift fandom or deification, nor some sort of Swift takedown. Especially in recent weeks, she's somehow become a politically charged figure. That's unfortunate.

I, personally, am not a Swift fan, though I applaud her LGBTQIA+ stance, as well as Kelce's pro-vax, pro-science, "fight me, Aaron Rodgers" ways.

There's something almost too perfect about Swift's existence, starting with great genes and that wealthy upbringing that allowed her to pursue creative freedom far better than many other creatives who don't have those fallbacks. I will wholly admit to some jealousy: Here's a girl who every guy in the world thinks is pretty, cute and sweet, yet she has made her stardom in part off bemoaning how she just can't find the perfect one — and then the perfect one is also a genetically gifted, rich athlete who also comes from a near-perfect family.

Meanwhile, for many of us out without her looks, popularity, upbringing, talent and God-given gifts, we can't find anyone and life generally feels like far more of a lonely struggle. For those of us for whom most women have found us inadequate for one reason or another, seeing this highly desirable woman find even the most desirable men we can imagine inadequate can feel tiring and depressing, not to mention her "woe is me" way about it.

I get that many women feel like Swift relates to them and is tremendously relatable. I look at her and think, if she can't be happy, none of us can be, nor should we necessarily be celebrating her unhappiness or 'becoming empowered'. Her circumstances are far easier than most others, including many other women.

That said, the right has somehow turned her, and Travis, into pariahs for their silly reasons and that bothers me greatly. I'm also upset that we live in a world where the right does that and I end up feeling like I have to either be vehemently pro-Swift or anti-Swift if liking or disliking Swift becomes a referendum on being pro or anti-right wing. Of my feelings on Swift and politics, I'm relatively ambivalent on Swift — not my cup of tea, but I understand her appeal and people can like what they like — but I'm very anti-right wing.

That said, I have made the point to say her recent tour's concerts have all been in NFL stadiums — usually owned by some of the greediest, right-wing-est guys out there — and have made a lot of money for those folks in the end.

I thought of it this way: I'd like Taylor more if she was a little less perfect. If, to feel better, instead of writing songs about her feelings, she saw the utility in a good, hard, NSA fuck. I'd like to think a lot of people out there who are otherwise good, moral, upstanding people somewhat secretly see things that way, if they're lucky and able enough to find willing partners. No, that's not always the best answer, and sometimes it's not always as good of answer as you thought it would be. It also carries baggage if not handled correctly. But, done right, it can be one of the best possible solutions a grown-up can have, especially when it's easy and everyone walks away happy in the end.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But, as I have the story now, consensus is it's against the rules. Accordingly, no story.

It is what it is.

My recommendation would be to write your own pop star, make her your own creation. Draw down on real life people, sure, but write her as your own character.

This notion of using a real life personality for your character is a bit lazy in my opinion - you're not doing much of the work.

I was going to link to a superb rock chick story, the writer's own creation, but unfortunately he's taken all his stories down.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I’m sure her millions are some consolation, but I’d hate to be a female celeb.

Emily

I'd hate to be a celebrity of any kind and lose my privacy. But I guess the money helps a bit.

The only time I had a "celebrity" in a story, the details (her name, among other things) were changed enough that I had plausible deniability. Anyone reading it closely could figure out who it was. Anyway, that was years ago and I've never heard anything about it.

By the way, a guy who handles security for big name celebrities has said, "The question is not, 'is there a stalker?' The question is, 'How many are there?' " The King of Comedy is a good fictionalized version of the situation.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Hi all — noob here.

I have an idea for a story that's poured out of me to the tune of nearly 100 pages (!) over the past week, with probably at least another 50-100 to go.

I started to think about partial publication of the story, then took a look at the guidelines and got a little scared to continue at all.

I'm just wondering if the concept is valid for the site or not.

Here's a synopsis:



Right now, in my mental outline of the story, it has nine sex scenes. One I'm worried about is one where Taylor gets "surprised" by a less than savory customer who is rough with her doing anal. I'm workshopping it in my head to figure out how to making it a less-than-positive experience without ranging into non-con. I want it to set up a triumphant final scene where Taylor overcomes the previous bad experience to willingly include anal in a final dalliance with a different customer.

Of these scenes, six — all the non-lesbian ones — would include fictional prostitution in a fictional Detroit strip club. However, the club would be based quite a bit on real Detroit clubs, and, frankly, stuff that been reported to have gone on in Detroit strip clubs. The Penthouse Club in Detroit was shut down for such activities.

The "club manager" character would also run a "dancer recruitment service." While both the manager character and service would be fictional, they would be largely based on real life. Google HBO's Topless Prophet to understand.

There would also be a mild implication the club is linked to organized crime, but it only be to explain how they get away with what happens, not a central plot point.

Anyhow, I'm just wondering if it's even worth me continuing with the story or if I'm just wasting my time such that this story will never fit the site's guidelines. Thanks in advance.

It sounds like a a promising story idea. You have to make the singer someone with some parallels with Swift's life and career, but definitely is not her. Besides, Taylor Swift in Detroit seems a bit unlikely.

Now, if you could get someone "similar" to Eminem in there too . . .

 

[ChimilDetin]

This notion of using a real life personality for your character is a bit lazy in my opinion - you're not doing much of the work.

I'd actually make the opposite case: When you use a real figure, event or place, I think it's more of a challenge because it's more limiting and requires a level of accuracy on top of creativity.

You have to get the facts correct with reality. You have to try and understand the real people and things that happened from the inside out. You might have to work around facts or pieces of their backstory that don't perfectly fit the scenario. You can't write something counter to what a real person's personality is or what's happened to them in their actual past. If you do, astute readers will recognize that and lose their connection with the story. "No, that person would never do that," they'd think. I get that feeling with stories I read here sometimes. The good ones, you say, "Yeah, I can see that person being like that and doing that."

When you create a fictional character, though, you can bend the character's backstory and history to fit the story's needs. If anything, it's a temptation you have to consciously avoid as a writer. "This isn't something this character would do? I'll just change the character." I think it's harder writing around the limitations of reality.

I mentioned above I'm not necessarily a Swift fan. Not a hater, but not a fan. But I found myself looking up info on her to get stuff right when writing! A fully fictional character doesn't require that. It's all made up.

Again, a big part of my story wasn't just that Swift is rich — it's also that she comes from a wealthy upbringing. Her father was a stockbroker and mother was a mutual fund marketing executive. I'm not sure that's necessarily common knowledge, but I think it's shaped her path. The juxtaposition of that against women who might be working at a gentlemen's club because they might have, or come from, nothing, if not never had anything, was part of the drama of what I wrote.

With a fictional star, having her come from such a well-to-do background would just be convenient and could be molded to give her an attitude to fit the story. With Swift, it's truly how it is, and instead you have to play within the confines of what one thinks the readers perceive and expect Swift's true character to be.

I spent a healthy amount of time with what I wrote on exposition: Why it was plausible Swift would do this. At first, it's because Kelce largely convinces her she wouldn't have to because he's sure the Chiefs will win, while assuring Swift he'd be there for her if they didn't because he'd been to such a club before (not sure if true or not, but a little creative license). It takes the injury to change those factors, but also the character proffering the wager making significant gestures to make it known he's not trying to be cruel but supportive. In the story, I have the figure make a sizable unprompted donation to the hospital Kelce lands in.

The other things I had Swift thinking in my story after hearing Kelce try to convince her —

"It's a chance to see sexuality differently that might inspire me creatively"
"I did a video with Dita Von Teese, who does burlesque and was great"
"It can't be that bad if Travis went once"
"This guy who made the bet seems over-the-top but actually understanding, nice and generous in ways"

— vibe with Taylor's real-life character. Again, a fictional character, none of that is already in place. You can write it in, sure, but you can write anything in to make anything make sense with a fictional character. With a real person, you need to play with the real facts.

In what I had written, Swift doesn't find out there's going to be actual sex acts involved until she's at the club because she assumes it's like most other gentlemen's clubs where everything's hands off. When she does find out, she thinks about executing an predisposed escape plan. But partly due to a "warm-up session" with her skilled mentor, despite the mentor initially being somewhat put off finding out Swift, and all that comes with her, is her mentee, Swift decides to see what happens.

And so on.

Taylor Swift in Detroit seems a bit unlikely.

Now, if you could get someone "similar" to Eminem in there too . . .

Yeah, no, not trying to write a celebrity orgy. Swift and Eminem getting together is, in my mind, an (Ambassador) bridge too far.

Swift in Detroit might not be as unlikely as you think, though: The Eras Tour played Ford Field June 9 and 10 last year.

 

[jaF0]

I can see how your story got to so many words without really going anywhere.

 

[ChimilDetin]

I can see how your story got to so many words without really going anywhere.

Yeah, when I signed up for the forum to ask about this, I saw that "Editor" section and thought, "Oooh, yeah, I could use one of those."

I'm verbose. I'm detail-oriented. I like to attack my points from multiple angles with multiple phrasings to ensure people wholly understand what I'm thinking.

I consider it a strength, but in an era of phone-notification attention spans, it's probably more of a weakness.

 

[ElectricBlue]

@ChimilDetin

It's a shame to see you lock yourself out of publishing a story, though. You've clearly thought a lot about this, and you're far more coherent in defending your approach than many who wander in with fan-fiction.

Seems to me that you'd be a good enough writer on your own, without needing a celebrity as your foundation.

 

[jaF0]

^^^ That was my point about The Monkees. I can remember a few other pop stars that got their start playing fictional pop stars. Actors and actresses too.

Don't use a real person, create one.

 

[ChimilDetin]

@ChimilDetin

It's a shame to see you lock yourself out of publishing a story, though. You've clearly thought a lot about this, and you're far more coherent in defending your approach than many who wander in with fan-fiction.

Seems to me that you'd be a good enough writer on your own, without needing a celebrity as your foundation.

I appreciate your kind words. I have done some semipro writing in the non-erotic realm, though it's not a career.

Longtime reader here, but this was my first time considering publishing on this site, as it was truly the first time I got an idea where I actually thought, "Damn, this would make a great story."

Part of it is "write what you know." I know the characters, places and things involved. Big football fan. Been to my share of clubs. Went to school as the kid from the other side of the tracks with a lot of popular, rich girls who complained about their problems and boys as they ignored me because I didn't have a car, fancy clothes or a non-Supercuts haircut and drove off in their Jeeps or their boyfriend's convertibles while I wasn't sure how I was getting home if I couldn't get a hold of Mom.

Something more fictional or made-up? Don't know that. And, like I said, I feel like it loses the connection when you don't have your notion of who someone is already. Even in my reading here, I tend to stick to the Celeb section. Even when I see fiction stories that say, "She looked like so-and-so," I think, "Just write a story about so-and-so, then."

But oh well.

 

[jaF0]

And, like I said, I feel like it loses the connection when you don't have your notion of who someone is already.

Did anybody know Ginger or MaryAnn, Betty or Veronica, Samantha, Jeannie or any of the other similar characters before their shows? How many stories have been written about them since?

 

[AchtungNight]

I understand both the pro and anti arguments towards fanfic posted here. I’ve shared both opinions at times. Yeah, you should portray characters based on celebrities accurately. At the same time, you are writing a fictional story so if you want to alter details, as long as it’s believable or intriguing, and you’re able to make it work for the audience… I doubt the many celebrities I portray as happy swingers are that way IRL. But I sure have fun creating alternative reality.

When I started writing erotica, I vowed to keep it as sex positive as I could. I also wanted to support free love, female empowerment, and diversity. I’m anti right wing too- fiscally conservative but socially liberal similar to Arnold Schwarzenegger. I had the standard upbringing that discouraged promiscuity, but well, I never agreed with it. When I discovered the alternative views of sexuality in Asia, and later the ideals of ethical polyamory and free love… it just made more sense to me than the dominance games and shameful ways a lot of people use to describe sexuality. Still does.

Almost twenty years of writing erotica and a failed monogamous marriage later, my views have not changed. Yes, I’ve seen a lot of hypocrisy and awful stuff, but the dream is still alive. And I’ll give it to my characters even if I can’t have it myself. All the villains in my stories won’t be able to stop me.

I too think it’s a pity you’re giving up. But it’s your decision. Good luck.

 

[ChimilDetin]

Good on you for persevering, @AchtungNight.

I'm fortunate to be in a marriage that has a non-monogamous element. I wouldn't necessarily call it open or even say we're poly, but we've basically said one-off flings — "mistakes," as my wife calls them — happen and shouldn't worry us.

Given what I had was tied to sex work, I wanted to put a positive spin on that component.

On the one hand, it's undeniable there are bad elements in that realm at present. Trafficking is a major issue needs to be stopped. Drug use is a problem for many in that business.

I referred to some of that in what I had. I had the Jessica character talk about how she wanted to eventually get out, study International Affairs and fight some of the bad elements while saving the good ones. I do mention drugs are present in the club, but they're a negative influence — the Jessica character points out she kicked the habit when she became pregnant with her daughter, and they have a negative impact on Rebecca. I don't get into trafficking more than Jessica mentioning she wants to fight it.

As for the positives of sex work, I obviously think they're there. I am of the belief that if we could destigmatize it, regulate it and ensure providers are safe and have recourse for bad situations, it could cure a lot of our societal ills. I'd 100× rather have young men visit a provider every so often than the myriad bad behaviors men take up with women, ranging from harassment to assault and worse.

As far as giving up though, I just don't know if I feel up to retooling it all. Plus, even in what I'd written thus far, I'd only gotten up through the end of Taylor's first of five nights. Slogging through the next four, only to not have the story be denied publication, just feels like a chore.

A quick plot summary:

After explaining out the Lions making the Super Bowl rather than losing the NFC title game, the bet, Travis encouraging Taylor to take the bet and the emotional pain of seeing Travis suffer a gruesome leg & knee injury as the Chiefs lose, we skip to Taylor flying in, meeting the strange but oddly charming flamboyant "Billy B" who made the bet, and preparing for her first night with an open mind. She meets Jessica, who can't believe Taylor went through with it and is cold to her "rich spoiled white girl" mentee. Nonetheless, Jessica is a pro and wants to set a good example, including a "warm-up session" with Taylor to start in which Jessica's abilities with women are an eye-opener.

After getting a feel for things, Taylor's first customer session is with a man who finishes just from the touch of her hand on his leg. Things get better with her next session, though, with three positions and Taylor loving using her sexiness in the run up to a spectacular fuck. Jessica can't help but feel excited for Taylor getting her first-ever enjoyable, NSA screw. In the final session of that first night, Taylor & Jessica team up on an older executive type and we introduce Jessica's ability to cum/squirt, which she does onto Taylor while being fucked above Taylor. Taylor leaves that session feeling better about helping Jessica more than anything and wanting to experience an orgasm herself during the week. That's where I had stopped writing.

The second night, I wanted Taylor to try to return the warm-up favor with Jessica, only to require some lessons, then use what she learned in a session with a husband & wife customer pair where she pleases the both of them greatly. That makes her a little overconfident, though, leading to an anal session with a customer who comes off rough, cold and not what she was expecting. She doesn't totally hate the physical feeling, but doesn't like how the guy's way of going about it removes all joy. This was the part I was workshopping most in my head, thinking maybe the anal part would be a "surprise." That borders on non-con, though, so I wondered if it was something where Jessica warned Taylor, but Taylor didn't heed the warning.

Of course, that customer was also a regular with Rebecca, as was the customer Taylor made blow his load prematurely the first night, which meant less (necessary) money for Rebecca in the end. Throw in Taylor taking the name Becky, which forces Rebecca to change her stage name and get fined for missing a stage shift the first night, and a TV crew catching wind of a rumor Swift was at the club and getting footage of Rebecca instead, and the third night starts with Rebecca entering coked up, irate and attempting to attack/fight Taylor in the locker room. The dancers are separated before any damage is done, but club rules apply for Taylor: Anyone central to a fight has to take the rest of the night off, plus an additional day to allow things to cool off.

During that time, Taylor largely hides in her hotel room, but talks with Billy B, as well as her publicist. They have a plan to make the outside attention go away, but Taylor also tells them what she's learned, including her appreciation for Jessica, her feeling sorry for Rebecca and her realization there's this whole other world where women are sexy and deal with men — some bad, some good — in this entirely different way. She realizes how lucky she is: A great life, with comfort, support and supporters. She decides she should be happy with all of that and more thoughtful about how she can give back than she already does, including making her concerts more affordable. She also realizes sex is natural, healthy and something she shouldn't be so uptight about if it's with good people. She decides she's excited Travis might not play football anymore because she wants to be able to have him around and have a healthy intimate life with him — experimental, maybe even involving other people, but something where they aren't afraid to make it a priority to do it often, enjoy it, and figure out what each other likes.

While Billy agrees the two nights off will count toward her five days, she does, however, have to work one more. They allow her to work day shift to avoid attention and Rebecca. But she does meet Jessica one more time, who reveals she probably could have taken a similar path to Taylor's were it not for her conservative parents finding her butt plug while she was attending college and basically disowning her, leading to dropping out and finding drugs. Day shift gives Taylor and Jessica time to connect on an emotional level, as Jessica has now warmed to Taylor and Taylor sees a lot of herself in Jessica, just an easier path and without the sexual pleasure. Taylor does have one last client, though — a fictionalized Lions' kicker on whose field goal the whole start of the story turns — who also quietly has an open relationship with his wife and is very open-minded sexually. Taylor has a spectacular experience with him, seeing him as a stand-in for Travis, including another, better anal experience and her own first orgasm. She decides that's a good note to end on, but leaves after a final talk with Jessica, who drops a hint for readers that her daughter may actually be the result of Travis' previous visit, but also reveals her and her daughter's real name to Taylor in the ultimate sign of trust.

In all, an uplifting story. But, alas, against the rules. Why I asked.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Add in her well-publicized past relationships, some of which have become content for her music, and it's difficult not to think there's something amiss related to her approach to intimacy. When the super-popular, pretty, talented girl from the rich family who becomes an international superstar just can't get relationships right, despite umpteen suitors, some of whom are the world's most famous and sought-after men, I don't think we can be blamed for being curious.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/11/taylor-swifts-terrifying-stalker-history-through-the-years/

"Superstar" has many advantages but I'm not sure why anybody would expect it to help with relationships. Most of the people who are going to be attracted by celebrity or wealth are not good partner material and some are outright dangerous.

Being a touring musician is also pretty rough on relationships - away from home a lot, often in different time zones, yada yada.

I've had my share of relationships, good and bad, but even the good ones have their tough moments, and none of those would've been improved by having paparazzi staking out my house and scrutinising my every move in order to write breathless headlines about "Breakup for Bramble???" (or I guess clickbait YouTube videos these days).

 

[alohadave]

https://nypost.com/2022/01/11/taylor-swifts-terrifying-stalker-history-through-the-years/

"Superstar" has many advantages but I'm not sure why anybody would expect it to help with relationships. Most of the people who are going to be attracted by celebrity or wealth are not good partner material and some are outright dangerous.

Being a touring musician is also pretty rough on relationships - away from home a lot, often in different time zones, yada yada.

I've had my share of relationships, good and bad, but even the good ones have their tough moments, and none of those would've been improved by having paparazzi staking out my house and scrutinising my every move in order to write breathless headlines about "Breakup for Bramble???" (or I guess clickbait YouTube videos these days).

I've said many times that I wouldn't mind being rich, but I'd never want to be famous.

 

[AchtungNight]

I think the main issue is the duality of consent vs non-consent. I’ve lately been musing over a Novel-length story called Biker Fantasy in which a young woman named Lisa joins a biker gang to get her motorcycle license and open herself sexually after her eighteenth birthday. Lisa is well trained in self defense- her family insisted on it since her mother was a victim of sex trafficking and didn’t want her children to suffer a similar situation. I know the sex she’s going to have with several men in the gang is going to be consensual but I’m conflicted over how to inject necessary drama in the story. I need to make it interesting. Otherwise it’s just “tab A into slot B” and that doesn’t get much lasting attention. So I have contemplated having her briefly kidnapped by bad guys who don’t know about her skills at first and then they think guns and tasers will be enough to defeat her (they are until the rest of the good guys rescue her). But I care about the character and don’t want to subject her to even the temporary threat of trafficking. Plus I’m still figuring out the plot.

I’m Lisa’s only rabid fan, however, and I’ll probably get confident enough in my plot and characters to get the story out eventually if I’m meant to publish it.

Taylor Swift has thousands of fans who don’t want her subject to such a situation ever. They may downvote your story even if you publish it- even if you say it’s fiction, they may not want their icon treated like that. And she herself has no need to get involved in such a situation either. Why would she? It’s either uncomfortable or unbelievable.

If she were just doing the stripping and keeping her face and identity concealed (some real strippers do this), avoiding the prostitution and drugs, that could work. Then she sees other girls enjoying being swingers and accepting gifts along with casual sex from customers and decides to take part. Travis can’t be with her because of his injury, he gives her a hall pass as some other boyfriends of hers have in the past, it’s understood she’s just having fun and will be back with him when he’s recovered… bada bing. Can you make this happen? Or will the lack of drama be a problem because there has to be an element of non-consent involved?

I do think Laurel’s tolerance of non-consent in the Fanfic category is hit or miss though. I wrote a story where a Jedi’s friends with benefits allowed him to practice mind tricks during their sexual encounters and she rejected it. Yet a story where Brainiac brainwashed Superman into a Lothario intent on world conquest and then he recruits a willing harem has had several chapters recently published. [blinks] Not sure what her standards are exactly.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I've always wondered why celebrity sex is even allowed on this site. I find it extremely presumptuous and disrespectful. I might use a real person's icon as a metaphor in a song lyric or something, but I would never ever write a scene depicting a real living person involved in explicit activities without the full approval of that person.

So write your story and send your final draft to Taylor Swift and see if she will let you publish. I dare you.

 

[AchtungNight]

I explicitly state in my fanfic stories that they are not reality and feature alternate reality versions of the celebrities depicted. This is acceptable to me- and my fans too hopefully, Laurel included- even if I do understand the perspective of people who have opinions like pinksilkglove. I would gladly accept affection from any beautiful woman interested in giving it to me- and fantasizing about it being a celebrity just adds some extra charm. I’m content with my muse playing the role in the end, hope every other author and reader of such stories is likewise content.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've always wondered why celebrity sex is even allowed on this site. I find it extremely presumptuous and disrespectful. I might use a real person's icon as a metaphor in a song lyric or something, but I would never ever write a scene depicting a real living person involved in explicit activities without the full approval of that person.

So write your story and send your final draft to Taylor Swift and see if she will let you publish. I dare you.

I get where you're coming from, but I suspect a lot of celebrities (or non-celebrities) would find that much creepier.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I get where you're coming from, but I suspect a lot of celebrities (or non-celebrities) would find that much creepier.

Indeed. Hence the dare.

 

[mildlyaroused]

I appreciate your kind words. I have done some semipro writing in the non-erotic realm, though it's not a career.

Longtime reader here, but this was my first time considering publishing on this site, as it was truly the first time I got an idea where I actually thought, "Damn, this would make a great story."

Part of it is "write what you know." I know the characters, places and things involved. Big football fan. Been to my share of clubs. Went to school as the kid from the other side of the tracks with a lot of popular, rich girls who complained about their problems and boys as they ignored me because I didn't have a car, fancy clothes or a non-Supercuts haircut and drove off in their Jeeps or their boyfriend's convertibles while I wasn't sure how I was getting home if I couldn't get a hold of Mom.

Something more fictional or made-up? Don't know that. And, like I said, I feel like it loses the connection when you don't have your notion of who someone is already. Even in my reading here, I tend to stick to the Celeb section. Even when I see fiction stories that say, "She looked like so-and-so," I think, "Just write a story about so-and-so, then."

But oh well.

For me, I genuinely think your solution is almost as simple as just swapping the name 'Taylor Swift' for something else.

From all your responses here, it is clear that you've thought very intimately about the characters, narrative, and themes of your story. You aren't writing purely out of an attraction or obsession (love or hate) for Taylor. That's good.

But I think you've thought so much about your story that I'd argue you can entirely drop Taylor. Your world and characters sound real, so why does your main character need to be her?

The reality is that even if you publish it, your main character is not her. It is based on her but the moment you took artistic liberties it ceased being her. The character arc you speak of is not something we know Taylor has experienced. So what's the point of keeping her name and likeness?

You can keep almost everything about your character's background, just change her name. The story will work just as well. Swap anything that explicitly makes her Taylor Swift; you can still keep all the same plot, themes, characters, settings, etc. Nothing will actually change.

So, I ask again: why does it have to be her? You say she was an attractive option as a protagonist for lots of reasons, which I get and respect. But now that you've extrapolated those aspects of Taylor Swift, there's no reason to keep her name in the story.

Again, a big part of my story wasn't just that Swift is rich — it's also that she comes from a wealthy upbringing. Her father was a stockbroker and mother was a mutual fund marketing executive. I'm not sure that's necessarily common knowledge, but I think it's shaped her path. The juxtaposition of that against women who might be working at a gentlemen's club because they might have, or come from, nothing, if not never had anything, was part of the drama of what I wrote.

I spent a healthy amount of time with what I wrote on exposition: Why it was plausible Swift would do this. At first, it's because Kelce largely convinces her she wouldn't have to because he's sure the Chiefs will win, while assuring Swift he'd be there for her if they didn't because he'd been to such a club before (not sure if true or not, but a little creative license). It takes the injury to change those factors, but also the character proffering the wager making significant gestures to make it known he's not trying to be cruel but supportive. In the story, I have the figure make a sizable unprompted donation to the hospital Kelce lands in.

Part of the reason Swift makes a compelling topic for a site like this is because she's very careful to be sexy without being sexual. Let's be frank: The lips, the eyes, the hair ... she is, objectively, a spectacularly attractive woman. Yet, unlike other many of the sexy popstars of the past 40 years — Madonna, Britney, Christina, Ariana Grande — she hasn't had her "I'm letting you know I love sex" turn yet, like Madonna's book, Britney going all in on no longer being innocent, Christina's "dirrrty" phase and so on. Swift's thing has more been to emphasize her confidence and assertiveness, but without implying sex has anything to do with it. It's made her highly marketable, but has also given her an air of unattainability. I think that's also part of her appeal, though: "I'm so confident and hot and beloved by my fans that I'm too good for anyone but me and the man I pick, which I've had to work on but seem to have found one." To explore how sex would play into her personality, were it introduced, is part of the fascination.

All of these justifications for why you chose Swift are compelling, and they serve as the basis for a really interesting story with a great central character arc. But it simply does not have to actually be Taylor. You can't know her thoughts. Your protagonist is already 100% fictional. Tacking on Taylor's name only hurts your chances. You've done the heavy lifting: you've made your character. All you need to do is change the names and some specific life facts about Taylor, and you're well and truly set.

It can be Taylor Swift in your mind. Readers might even make that connection.

I don't say this to be condescending. You've put a lot of pages (and clearly a lot of thought) into this story. Don't waste it.