Being compelled to write a certain way, vs deciding what to do

[EmilyMiller]

This is me taking a discussion out of my positivity thread to somewhere more appropriate.

Some people refer to a story taking over. It needing to be told. It’s contents and plot taking on a life of its own.

Does this really happen, or do we not - as authors - have full control over what we write and how we write it?

For context, the original discussion was around whether or not it is possible to modify your writing to stick within Lit guidelines.

Em

 

[samhasstories]

I think my stories do have a certain amount of autonomy. I'm the boss - I have veto power, if I really want to force it a certain way then I can. But sometimes, in the process of writing, the story starts to push and pull, and if I let it things start to veer in one direction or another. I enjoy that process. Sometimes what ends up being written is not at all what I sat down to write.

As for Lit guidelines, and any other concern you might have for what you really want to show up in the final, that seems to me like a job for revision. As Hemingway supposedly said, "write drunk, edit sober." I think that applies to not only literal intoxicants - write without your active brain, without inhibition, and then go back and adjust as needed, employing all those boring powers of reason.

 

[onehitwanda]

Mm.

I create, or imagine, or dream my characters. But that's I think where my direct control stops; from there on, besides introducing dramatic incidents or plot points, my stories evolve in the way I imagine my characters would behave, react etc.

So kinda / kinda not?

 

[alohadave]

In general, I firmly believe that the author is in control of what they write. You come up with the premise, the plot, characters and story.

However, there are times where you let go. As I mentioned in the other thread, the WIP has violence, and it may be allowed, maybe not.

Something that I realized while writing it, is that it is semi-autobiographical (not literally as the main character is a lesbian and i'm cis-het male), but the incident of sexual violence and responses to that has mirrors with my own history. So I want to see where it lands while pushing it where I want it to be.

 

[HordHolm]

I hesitate to describe stories as 'things demanding to be written', but I do think there are times when the idea is, in one's mind, so 'good' as to demand to be written/created. That's one side of it. The other side is whether a story 'needs' to be published in a certain way or place. And that, clearly, has to be no. I write modern, urban fantasy, and the places I submit those stories would not welcome the material I have written and submitted to Lit. That's fair enough and I recognise that. However, it's clear that some people want to push at the boundaries of any publisher/site. It's a dynamic we should expect (and sometimes welcome. When? Ahhh... that depends ), without necessarily expecting any particular publisher to cave.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Mm.

I create, or imagine, or dream my characters. But that's I think where my direct control stops; from there on, besides introducing dramatic incidents or plot points, my stories evolve in the way I imagine my characters would behave, react etc.

So kinda / kinda not?

I know. And I do that too. But… is it not just a way of describing an active, intellectual process? We don’t really get taken over by muses. We write what we want to write, surely. No matter what it might feel like.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think my stories do have a certain amount of autonomy. I'm the boss - I have veto power, if I really want to force it a certain way then I can. But sometimes, in the process of writing, the story starts to push and pull, and if I let it things start to veer in one direction or another. I enjoy that process. Sometimes what ends up being written is not at all what I sat down to write.

As for Lit guidelines, and any other concern you might have for what you really want to show up in the final, that seems to me like a job for revision. As Hemingway supposedly said, "write drunk, edit sober." I think that applies to not only literal intoxicants - write without your active brain, without inhibition, and then go back and adjust as needed, employing all those boring powers of reason.

Much as I’m not a fan of Hemmingway’s writing, that statement resonates.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

In general, I firmly believe that the author is in control of what they write. You come up with the premise, the plot, characters and story.

However, there are times where you let go. As I mentioned in the other thread, the WIP has violence, and it may be allowed, maybe not.

Something that I realized while writing it, is that it is semi-autobiographical (not literally as the main character is a lesbian and i'm cis-het male), but the incident of sexual violence and responses to that has mirrors with my own history. So I want to see where it lands while pushing it where I want it to be.

So - I empathize - there can be something cathartic about writing. But - to go back to Hemingway - there is the editing process. And there is the decision whether or not to publish things written as therapy (I have a few stories that will never see the light of day).

Em

 

[samhasstories]

I know. And I do that too. But… is it not just a way of describing an active, intellectual process? We don’t really get taken over by muses. We write what we want to write, surely. No matter what it might feel like.

Em

I think you're right, we do write what we want to write. But, at least for me, sometimes my subconscious and conscious disagree. And when I have a head of steam it's my subconscious that's driving. It sounds more romantic maybe to say it's the story itself that's doing it.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

if a character's complex, sometimes their personality can make for surprises. a bully might be acting out of fear of being bullied themselves. there could be backstory to explain whay the bully is otivated to behave that way. when that happens a story can shift into another gear and go off in another direction that takes the writer off the map.

not that i write complex characters. i'm usually stuck on mature blonde ladies with large boobs...

there's some backstory to that...

 

[EmilyMiller]

I hesitate to describe stories as 'things demanding to be written', but I do think there are times when the idea is, in one's mind, so 'good' as to demand to be written/created. That's one side of it. The other side is whether a story 'needs' to be published in a certain way or place. And that, clearly, has to be no. I write modern, urban fantasy, and the places I submit those stories would not welcome the material I have written and submitted to Lit. That's fair enough and I recognise that. However, it's clear that some people want to push at the boundaries of any publisher/site. It's a dynamic we should expect (and sometimes welcome. When? Ahhh... that depends ), without necessarily expecting any particular publisher to cave.

Of course I get that. My point - not a judgmental one I hope - is that “the story demands to be written this way” is just a way of dissociating the author from the reality that “I want to write it this way.” It’s more palatable to blame an external agent, the story, your muse. In reality, no one is writing your story but you.

Em

 

[HordHolm]

I know. And I do that too. But… is it not just a way of describing an active, intellectual process? We don’t really get taken over by muses. We write what we want to write, surely. No matter what it might feel like.

Em

You can see why the Ancients invented the idea of the Muses - it's such a powerful feeling. In the dim and distant past I may have indulged in certain intoxicants, but none of them gave me the same buzz as some moments of creativity have given me. But we aren't swept away by something outside ourselves, surely: what we are feeling is a hormonal rush kickstarted by the hemisphere's of the brain having a ball.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think you're right, we do write what we want to write. But, at least for me, sometimes my subconscious and conscious disagree. And when I have a head of steam it's my subconscious that's driving. It sounds more romantic maybe to say it's the story itself that's doing it.

I have no quibble with connecting with your own subconscious. I do that too. Maybe that’s what the language about muses is all about.

Em

 

[AwkwardlySet]

When it comes to any major plot or character points, I don't think they ever come out as a result of my "active" thinking. Most of the time the idea just comes to me, often when I am about to go to sleep or when I'm in the shower. My subconscious is better at it, it seems.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You can see why the Ancients invented the idea of the Muses - it's such a powerful feeling. In the dim and distant past I may have indulged in certain intoxicants, but none of them gave me the same buzz as some moments of creativity have given me. But we aren't swept away by something outside ourselves, surely: what we are feeling is a hormonal rush kickstarted by the hemisphere's of the brain having a ball.

Yes - exactly that. The rush of creation is explicable without recourse to the supernatural.

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

I definitely do NOT have the experience of stories and characters taking on lives of their own and heading off in directions I don't plan. I tend to come up with a plan and pretty well stick with it. Sometimes as I write I change the plan because something new and better comes up, but it never feels like the story is writing itself. I always feel I am in firm control.

 

[EmilyMiller]

if a character's complex, sometimes their personality can make for surprises. a bully might be acting out of fear of being bullied themselves. there could be backstory to explain whay the bully is otivated to behave that way. when that happens a story can shift into another gear and go off in another direction that takes the writer off the map.

not that i write complex characters. i'm usually stuck on mature blonde ladies with large boobs...

there's some backstory to that...

I experience that too. My point is that it’s my brain surprising me. Not anything else.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

When it comes to any major plot or character points, I don't think they ever come out as a result of my "active" thinking. Most of the time the idea just comes to me, often when I am about to go to sleep or when I'm in the shower. My subconscious is better at it, it seems.

Again - I can identify with that.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

I definitely do NOT have the experience of stories and characters taking on lives of their own and heading off in directions I don't plan. I tend to come up with a plan and pretty well stick with it. Sometimes as I write I change the plan because something new and better comes up, but it never feels like the story is writing itself. I always feel I am in firm control.

I agree 85.3%. What does happen to me is I add adornments or sub-plots more spontaneously within the plan I have written. That feels more organic. But I know it’s me in control of the process. No one is guiding my “pen”.

Em

 

[Duleigh]

Some people refer to a story taking over. It needing to be told. It’s contents and plot taking on a life of its own.

Does this really happen, or do we not - as authors - have full control over what we write and how we write it?

Yes, it happens to me all the time, and yes, it really happens.

Do we not - as authors - have full control over what we write and how we write it?
Of course we do, but what fun is that? I write because I want to see different worlds, meet new people, only by letting a story go and lead me am I able to do that. Otherwise I'm stuck with some boring characters that I made out of memories of someone else, place them in places I've been and find nothing new, nothing exciting.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yes, it happens to me all the time, and yes, it really happens.

Do we not - as authors - have full control over what we write and how we write it?
Of course we do, but what fun is that? I write because I want to see different worlds, meet new people, only by letting a story go and lead me am I able to do that. Otherwise I'm stuck with some boring characters that I made out of memories of someone else, place them in places I've been and find nothing new, nothing exciting.

But where do these different worlds come from if not you?

Em

 

[Stimtheone]

The closest I came was when my first series posted here gripped me with an utter determination to finish it. One straight month of nothing else but writing. But to have characters "have a life of their own" and such... no, not really. I have particular archetypes in me, but they are just tools. I get random ideas of stories, but often have them leave me as soon as the 40 minutes of clearing a mind end.

 

[EmilyMiller]

The closest I came was when my first series posted here gripped me with an utter determination to finish it. One straight month of nothing else but writing. But to have characters "have a life of their own" and such... no, not really. I have particular archetypes in me, but they are just tools. I get random ideas of stories, but often have them leave me as soon as the 40 minutes of clearing a mind end.

I think we use mystical language to describe normal brain function (or slightly abnormal in my case).

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

Yes, it happens to me all the time, and yes, it really happens.

Do we not - as authors - have full control over what we write and how we write it?
Of course we do, but what fun is that? I write because I want to see different worlds, meet new people, only by letting a story go and lead me am I able to do that. Otherwise I'm stuck with some boring characters that I made out of memories of someone else, place them in places I've been and find nothing new, nothing exciting.

This process works differently for all of us. This doesn't describe the choice for me. I like giving free rein to my imagination, but I always feel it's me in control and not some other force or muse. To use an analogy, when I write I don't feel like I'm a mystic who received a revelation from God; I feel like I'm God, and I like it that way.

 

[samhasstories]

I think we use mystical language to describe normal brain function (or slightly abnormal in my case).

Em

I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but I would be surprised if many people mean that mystical language literally. The Muse, the writing gods, the whims of the characters themselves, these are all just more fun ways of describing the subconscious, aren't they?