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The BDSM Book Club Discussion Thread

FurryFury said:
I think it would have been written better for her to be drawn to him because of that past connection in which she worshipped and loved him. He should have cared more for her in the past and present IMO.

If the character development had covered what she needed and why better, the book would have been MUCH better. She could have had what seemed like irrefutable reason to doubt him later but I'd rather that proof to have been wrong in the end.

Fury :rose:
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I agree. I just didn't get enough of an emotional connection -- I had to supply it all myself. I have personally experienced such strong chemical/physical attraction to people that I didn't trust or like that I couldn't stay away, but I don't think Reese even really did a good job of showing that. I imbued the characters with that because it was necessary to believe in their actions.

And since when does he love her? There are a couple of moments when he shows affection for her, but she goes into this situation believing that he beat her so badly that he broke nearly every bone in her face. He broke her jaw IN SIX PLACES and SHATTERED BOTH HER EYE SOCKETS and she doesn't run from him when he tells her he knows who she is. Reese gives no plausible explanation for this so I had to provide it myself.

Some part of Carly does know him, does remember. She's in denial and it's why she can't consciously bring those memories forth, but if she truly were a blank slate she'd have to be insane to do what she does. There's no impetus for her to behave as she does rather than to involve the police from the very start.

At any rate, I thought there could have been a lot more character development. I never felt like I knew any of them very well.

-B
 
Maybe it was my need to believe he loved her that etched that idea into my brain?

I would read another book of her's just for the sex scenes.

*L*

Fury :rose:
 
FurryFury said:
Maybe it was my need to believe he loved her that etched that idea into my brain?
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Yes, that was where I was at too --- I didn't mean to imply that I disagreed with you. Quite the opposite. I believed he loved her because he said so and I wanted to believe that he loved her, not because he truly showed her much love.

FurryFury said:
I would read another book of her's just for the sex scenes.

*L*

Fury :rose:
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And that's exactly why I'm going to read the other book --- for the sex. ;->

-B
 
bridgeburner said:
Yes, that was where I was at too --- I didn't mean to imply that I disagreed with you. Quite the opposite. I believed he loved her because he said so and I wanted to believe that he loved her, not because he truly showed her much love.


And that's exactly why I'm going to read the other book --- for the sex. ;->

-B
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It looks like we agree about this, cool!

I wanted more from the book. I wanted a more realistic view of BDSM and more details.

I think we might get that only in a real story form in the next selection.

I hope someday to be able to write what is doing on in the Doms mind as well as in the subs.

I think that would make a much stronger book.

Make us care about the people in the story, that is one thing you have to do for me to enjoy the story.

Fury :rose:
 
I think she used the title Panic Snap because it sounded cool to her, she found out what it was and that was cool to her and it was innocuous sounding enough to be commercial while also pulling in the BDSM novel seekers.

Fury :rose:
 
FurryFury said:
I think she used the title Panic Snap because it sounded cool to her, she found out what it was and that was cool to her and it was innocuous sounding enough to be commercial while also pulling in the BDSM novel seekers.

Fury :rose:
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She talks very specifically about her amnesia being her own internal Panic Snap --- that it protects her from the knowledge of her past and what kind of person she was. Except that I think she's still pretty much that same person.

That was something that never really came together for me. The pre-coma Carly was selfish and immature enough to have pursued James in spite of his wife. She then did nothing to save the woman's life, didn't come forward with the truth about her death and proceeded to try and blackmail or bully James into marrying her instead. Carly's own wants and desires were more important than anyone else's.

18 years later, she has no memory of those events and yet she shows up and, true to form, she pursues things in her own way for her own purposes getting everything she possibly can get for herself and taking no one else into consideration although this time around she tries to at least pretend she has some sympathy for the dead wife.

In the end, though, she still doesn't come clean about that because she isn't willing to take responsibility for her own actions. She walks away free and clear while everyone else is either dead or suffering irreplaceable loss and grief.

Carly's amnesia protects the reader more than it ever protects Carly because I don't think Carly really cares what kind of person she is. At heart she's a narcissist. Her world consists of herself alone and what she wants and how she can get it. It's only the reader that wants Carly to turn out to have been an innocent to begin with or a changed woman now. The amnesia allows us to hold onto that hope until pretty much the very end of the book.

Or am I being entirely too hard on the woman?

-B
 
bridgeburner said:
She talks very specifically about her amnesia being her own internal Panic Snap --- that it protects her from the knowledge of her past and what kind of person she was. Except that I think she's still pretty much that same person.

That was something that never really came together for me. The pre-coma Carly was selfish and immature enough to have pursued James in spite of his wife. She then did nothing to save the woman's life, didn't come forward with the truth about her death and proceeded to try and blackmail or bully James into marrying her instead. Carly's own wants and desires were more important than anyone else's.

18 years later, she has no memory of those events and yet she shows up and, true to form, she pursues things in her own way for her own purposes getting everything she possibly can get for herself and taking no one else into consideration although this time around she tries to at least pretend she has some sympathy for the dead wife.

In the end, though, she still doesn't come clean about that because she isn't willing to take responsibility for her own actions. She walks away free and clear while everyone else is either dead or suffering irreplaceable loss and grief.

Carly's amnesia protects the reader more than it ever protects Carly because I don't think Carly really cares what kind of person she is. At heart she's a narcissist. Her world consists of herself alone and what she wants and how she can get it. It's only the reader that wants Carly to turn out to have been an innocent to begin with or a changed woman now. The amnesia allows us to hold onto that hope until pretty much the very end of the book.

Or am I being entirely too hard on the woman?

-B
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I do like the thought on the amnesia protecting us in a way at least after you read the book it does have a certain ring of truth. The question is why do you hate Carly?? Yes from you view she is totally self absorbed, but she wanted something, her past, and everything that she does furthers this objective.

Now in the past as a kid on her own she did whatever it took to survive. I think the younger Carly makes James into a sort of god for her. Her whole exsitance was hindged on being with him. Maybe for her it was love, but whatever it was it was an all comsuming fire, it threatened both Carly and James.

Now lets fast forward to the present, she can't remember who she is but how does that effect her personality?? When she woke up in the hospital was she a clean slate?? I say nay, I am sure she could remember how to talk and feed herself so what is to say that the core of Carly was not somehow still intact?? I think because of the amnesia she never got past being who she was as a little girl, its almost like she had a second childhood but as an adult.
 
I didn't like her either.

I found the amnesia to be an interesting but far too convenient plot point along with the facial surgery.

As previously mentioned I didn't like anyone (that is a BIG problem too) in the story except perhaps the mother character.

Fury :rose:
 
FurryFury said:
I didn't like her either.

I found the amnesia to be an interesting but far too convenient plot point along with the facial surgery.

As previously mentioned I didn't like anyone (that is a BIG problem too) in the story except perhaps the mother character.

Fury :rose:
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Well thankful then the second book far outshines the first then.
 
leeroy jenkins said:
Well thankful then the second book far outshines the first then.
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Do you mean the April selection or some other book, a second one by Reese for instance.

Fury :rose:
 
FurryFury said:
Do you mean the April selection or some other book, a second one by Reese for instance.

Fury :rose:
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The April selection Fury, its like sun to moon the differences are so striking.
 
leeroy jenkins said:
The April selection Fury, its like sun to moon the differences are so striking.
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I agree. Sadly I was too tired to even read last night.

So what else can be said about THIS selection? We can't start talking about the next one YET.

Fury :rose:
 
leeroy jenkins said:
Now lets fast forward to the present, she can't remember who she is but how does that effect her personality?? When she woke up in the hospital was she a clean slate?? I say nay, I am sure she could remember how to talk and feed herself so what is to say that the core of Carly was not somehow still intact?? I think because of the amnesia she never got past being who she was as a little girl, its almost like she had a second childhood but as an adult.
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I agree, I don't think she IS a different person. I think she gets to pretend that she's different for awhile, but she is essentially the same and we don't see any kind of re-education for her to become someone different. We don't know how she became who she was before --- we don't really even know who she was before ---- and we are mislead about who she is now because she's in denial.

I didn't hate Carly while I was reading most of the book but I didn't especially like her either. She had the advantage of being the protagonist and so I was on her side because I was supposed to be and also because I thought she'd been wronged and was pursuing justice even if I thought she was being stupid about it. But the more she went about it, the less I liked her and at first it was only because I thought she was an idiot. But that's not really about Carly, that's about the author......only I can't focus my irritation on the author because I don't know the woman. All I've got to focus on is Carly.

So, the more I turn the book over in my mind and the more irritated I get with things the more I come to dislike Carly not because she as a character is necessarily such a wicked entity, but because I'm mad at the author for not giving me more complete characters.

I'm confused because I think I'm supposed to like Carly or sympathize with her and I don't so that makes me wonder about the author and what kind of person she is that she thinks it's okay or excusable for Carly to behave the way she does.

As I said, I don't think Carly is evil, but she's selfish and she's childish and she lies to herself. There isn't anything admirable or noble about her. Those kinds of characters only work for me if they are somehow charming or entertaining which Carly is not.

And now I think I'm just rambling and repeating myself. ;->

I've got the other book -- Topping from Below -- and maybe reading it will give me a better handle on the author, but it's not starting out well for me. I may end up skimming it for the naughty bits. If they're good I promise to share!

-B
 
bridgeburner said:
I've got the other book -- Topping from Below -- and maybe reading it will give me a better handle on the author, but it's not starting out well for me. I may end up skimming it for the naughty bits. If they're good I promise to share!

-B
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The other book is her first so I would assume it might be the worse of the two. You know as we get more into our professions we are supposed to get better and if that is correct then it stands to reason topping from below would be a worse book. Then again maybe its better, I cant read it as my library does not have it I think.


=FurryFuryI agree. Sadly I was too tired to even read last night.

So what else can be said about THIS selection? We can't start talking about the next one YET.
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Sure we can Fury rules are made to be broken. :devil:
 
leeroy jenkins said:
The other book is her first so I would assume it might be the worse of the two. You know as we get more into our professions we are supposed to get better and if that is correct then it stands to reason topping from below would be a worse book. Then again maybe its better, I cant read it as my library does not have it I think.
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Entirely possible, but I've also found that sometimes an author who writes a tolerable first book will write a worse second book because he's had his head filled with garbage by critics singing his praises. All of a sudden he thinks he's a literary genius and so he starts writing "literary" works rather than just telling the damn story. We'll see. I had only just barely started when I got distracted by four other books. I'll get back to it in a couple of days.

-B
 
bridgeburner said:
I agree, I don't think she IS a different person. I think she gets to pretend that she's different for awhile, but she is essentially the same and we don't see any kind of re-education for her to become someone different. We don't know how she became who she was before --- we don't really even know who she was before ---- and we are mislead about who she is now because she's in denial.

I didn't hate Carly while I was reading most of the book but I didn't especially like her either. She had the advantage of being the protagonist and so I was on her side because I was supposed to be and also because I thought she'd been wronged and was pursuing justice even if I thought she was being stupid about it. But the more she went about it, the less I liked her and at first it was only because I thought she was an idiot. But that's not really about Carly, that's about the author......only I can't focus my irritation on the author because I don't know the woman. All I've got to focus on is Carly.

So, the more I turn the book over in my mind and the more irritated I get with things the more I come to dislike Carly not because she as a character is necessarily such a wicked entity, but because I'm mad at the author for not giving me more complete characters.

I'm confused because I think I'm supposed to like Carly or sympathize with her and I don't so that makes me wonder about the author and what kind of person she is that she thinks it's okay or excusable for Carly to behave the way she does.

As I said, I don't think Carly is evil, but she's selfish and she's childish and she lies to herself. There isn't anything admirable or noble about her. Those kinds of characters only work for me if they are somehow charming or entertaining which Carly is not.

And now I think I'm just rambling and repeating myself. ;->

I've got the other book -- Topping from Below -- and maybe reading it will give me a better handle on the author, but it's not starting out well for me. I may end up skimming it for the naughty bits. If they're good I promise to share!

-B
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I feel the same way about Carly that you state above!

Fury :rose:

leeroy jenkins said:
The other book is her first so I would assume it might be the worse of the two. You know as we get more into our professions we are supposed to get better and if that is correct then it stands to reason topping from below would be a worse book. Then again maybe its better, I cant read it as my library does not have it I think.





Sure we can Fury rules are made to be broken. :devil:
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No, they really aren't.

Fury

bridgeburner said:
Entirely possible, but I've also found that sometimes an author who writes a tolerable first book will write a worse second book because he's had his head filled with garbage by critics singing his praises. All of a sudden he thinks he's a literary genius and so he starts writing "literary" works rather than just telling the damn story. We'll see. I had only just barely started when I got distracted by four other books. I'll get back to it in a couple of days.

-B
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I usually find writers get better but sometimes I do find they only had one idea really which they are basically repeating over and over, not making for a better book.

Fury :rose:
 
Ok whatever you say, I am sure most of the populas believes as you do that is why we have red light camera and unmanned ticket photo machines. We all just do the right thing.
 
FurryFury said:
I usually find writers get better but sometimes I do find they only had one idea really which they are basically repeating over and over, not making for a better book.

Fury :rose:
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Yes, they do generally get better and Leeroy was on track with that, I'm just taking a gamble that this is one of those writers that got less enjoyable for me with her second book. Of course you can see I've made all kinds of progress in reading the first one. ;->

I can't help it. I found a Richard Laymon title available that I hadn't read yet and I wanted to read it more than I wanted to give Reese another try. I've got 'til Sunday though unless I want to check them out again.

-B
 
bridgeburner said:
Yes, they do generally get better and Leeroy was on track with that, I'm just taking a gamble that this is one of those writers that got less enjoyable for me with her second book. Of course you can see I've made all kinds of progress in reading the first one. ;->

I can't help it. I found a Richard Laymon title available that I hadn't read yet and I wanted to read it more than I wanted to give Reese another try. I've got 'til Sunday though unless I want to check them out again.

-B
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Oh believe me, I know how it is! *s*

Fury :rose:
 
Here's something I'm curious about, what do you think Reese either feels or really knows about BDSM from a personal and experiential standpoint?

Before I read this book or even saw the blurb for it I saw the blurb for her first book and had determined from the way it was presented that Reese would be one of those authors who is outwardly disapproving and horrified by BDSM but has no qualms about using it to promote her book --- describing everything in the most explicit detail to titillate her audience but then distancing herself from the "sleaze" by punishing characters who enjoyed the acts or making pronouncements about how dangerous and psychologically unsound everyone involved in BDSM must be.

I don't think that's a fair assessment for me to make at this point since that was not really the tone of her second book although I can't say that it's particularly a pro-BDSM book either. I'm still thinking that the kinky sex is something of a lure.

I'm not sure how much the book really has to do with BDSM, at all. I mean, clearly the sex is of a BDSM nature and clearly Carly's relationship with James is all about power exchange, but as has been pointed out there are no safe words, there's no discussion of what will or won't happen and the nature of the sex and the relationship are never really discussed. Also, the things that happen are kind of arbitrary.

For instance, why does James want her to eat out of a dog dish? I know why it's done in general, but I don't know why James specifically would want Carly to do such a thing. It seems kind of arbitrary. Like "Oh, here's a stock BDSM humiliation tactic to put in," and then he does something as reckless as pouring scalding water on her vagina when he has no way of judging what the temperature is.

Anybody else wonder what Reese's position and experience really are?

-B
 
These were some of my first questions but I don't have any answers based on facts.

Based on the book itself, I'd say she knows about some BDSM "activities" but has no understanding of why anyone would enjoy or participate in such things. I would hope if she did understand we could read it in the character development.

Imagine if the amnesia and discovery of the past has been used for Carly to "learn" again why she wanted and needed such activities with James? The whole book could have been a testament of sorts to BDSM love relationships but it would have gone a whole other way. The death of his wife might have been handled differently and Carly's "accident" as well.

I can only imagine how much I might have loved this book if it had done that. If it had taken a blank slate, had her realize her needs, find them and love again with someone I could like and respect as a character.

I do believe she is "using" the tasty details to sell and promote her work. I'm glad I got the book from the library, so I don't encourage her. If a book is good enough, I buy it for friends during the holidays.

Fury :rose:
 
Calling all readers, by my calendar it looks like we have one more week to read this month's (April) selection Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey.

I NEED you to tell me if you want to make this a two month book or not since it is over 700 pages.

If not I will take nominations for next month's book selection and announce the choice April 30 as well as begin the discussion of this month's book May 1.

Let me know, I love reading along with others and discussing!

Fury :rose:
 
I need some feedback from anyone who is interested in reading these books.

Please?

Fury :rose:
 
FurryFury said:
I need some feedback from anyone who is interested in reading these books.

Please?

Fury :rose:
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I really have not had time to read this month's selection so I will wait until You come up with the next one. :rose:
 
raven2 said:
I really have not had time to read this month's selection so I will wait until You come up with the next one. :rose:
Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts!

*hugs*

Fury :rose:
 
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