Curious about dom/mes and subs in "vanilla" relationships

ultimatebliss said:

This lady gets what I'm saying! The fact that so many people I've encountered aren't even honest enough, or string enough to talk to their loved one about it is what gets me. "Oh, she'd never understand" how would you know if you didn't ask?!

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ultimatebliss said:

We are all on the same site ABOUT KINKS! It's odd to me that you don't think sex is extremely important. I'm single because I am not in need of a relationship, I would rather be single than with an unsuited match. Just because someone is perfect on paper it doesn't mean I want to spend my life with them. Until I meet that person or perhaps reconnect at a better time I shall remain single. My question was and remains to be one of curiosity, some people have answered the rest have "picked on me" ( as stated by a gentleman above). If you are on a site focused on kink it leads me to believe it is important to you. I'm just curious as to why so many I've encountered are not comfortable sharing with their mates. It's one thing to meet someone that blows you away and hen compromise because that is what makes you happy, it's quite another to be with someone that you Are not happy with and seek outside satisfaction. That's what I'm talking about. The men who have complained to me about their vanilla relationships, where sex is very important to them and they're not getting it. Don't judge me because sex is a big factor for me just as I won't judge you if it isn't. I lead my life honestly, that's what is important to me. Maybe it's weird that I don't need a long term relationship, but if I do meet someone and when I do engage in sexual acts with anyone I'm honest about what I like and I ask them to be with me. I've said no to certain things just like I've been said no to.

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I'll say what's been said before: every situation is different. You make it sound like everyone has the ability to bring their kink out.

A good example of this would be a woman who came to lit for advice. She simply wanted to know how to take care of her sexual needs because she couldn't go to her husband. Many people encouraged her to talk to her husband in hopes that they could share some great sex.

She appreciated the encouraging but revealed it just wasn't going to work. She had tried to tempt him and get him to do something she felt wasn't too bad, she just gave him the hint that he could pull her hair. His responses, "you are my wife, not a whore."

When everyone had encouraged her to speak with him they hadn't known her background. Her marriage was arranged and culturally what she wanted wasn't right. Divorce wasn't an acceptable answer, either. She admitted he was a wonderful father and husband and the only thing that wasn't satifying was their sex life.

You can live however you want and like what you like, I never knocked it. I simply stated my own opinion . As for sex, I never said it was completely unimportant, I simply think it's not the most important. At some point my sex drive may dissappear completely and I don't want to be stuck with someone whom I can't even have a descent conversation with.

I also wouldn't tell someone to divorce their spouse in persuit of a selfish desire when life brings about different/difficult situations.

Curious_in_Cali said:

Man, that is one tall horse. Hope you are wearing a helmet.

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It's a fantasy horse. He's never actually ridden a real one. He may not ever encounter a single submissive woman in his lifetime.
But folks, really;

KoPilot said:

The "S" in BDSM doesn't stand for "sex".

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ultimatebliss said:

It's odd to me that you don't think sex is extremely important.

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Ah, yeah. This is where we get into the "your sex is good for you, my sex is good for me" part of being sex-positive.

I would say that the S in BDSM does indeed stand for Sex, along with standing for Sadism and Slave and Submissive.

Everyone's mileage WILL vary, and that's okay. The trick, ultimatebliss, is not to talk about your own experience in universal terms.

Meek me

MeekMe said:

I'll say what's been said before: every situation is different. You make it sound like everyone has the ability to bring their kink out.

A good example of this would be a woman who came to lit for advice. She simply wanted to know how to take care of her sexual needs because she couldn't go to her husband. Many people encouraged her to talk to her husband in hopes that they could share some great sex.

She appreciated the encouraging but revealed it just wasn't going to work. She had tried to tempt him and get him to do something she felt wasn't too bad, she just gave him the hint that he could pull her hair. His responses, "you are my wife, not a whore."

When everyone had encouraged her to speak with him they hadn't known her background. Her marriage was arranged and culturally what she wanted wasn't right. Divorce wasn't an acceptable answer, either. She admitted he was a wonderful father and husband and the only thing that wasn't satifying was their sex life.

You can live however you want and like what you like, I never knocked it. I simply stated my own opinion . As for sex, I never said it was completely unimportant, I simply think it's not the most important. At some point my sex drive may dissappear completely and I don't want to be stuck with someone whom I can't even have a descent conversation with.

I also wouldn't tell someone to divorce their spouse in persuit of a selfish desire when life brings about different/difficult situations.

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Why is sex a selfish desire? Why shouldn't we all feel empowered enough to delve into their kinks. It's not a dirty little secret. It's wonderful! I just don't get why people stay in relationships where they aren't comfortable enough to share themselves completely. I don't buy the stay for the kids argument, nor the displeasing the family, we've got this life to make the best of it. I'm not saying sex is the most important, I'd feel the same way if I met someone that had completely different family values. There are certain things that make us, us. Sex is one of those. I wouldn't change that for anyone. That being said I do believe in compromising as long as both parties have shared completely. For example,the man I sleep with regularly wants me to use a strap on on him, this wouldn't be my thing normally but with him everything turns me on so much that I'll do it. What turns me on the most is that he's so comfortable with me, as I am him that we can ask each other to do anything without judgement.

Stella_Omega said:

Ah, yeah. This is where we get into the "your sex is good for you, my sex is good for me" part of being sex-positive.

I would say that the S in BDSM does indeed stand for Sex, along with standing for Sadism and Slave and Submissive.

Everyone's mileage WILL vary, and that's okay. The trick, ultimatebliss, is not to talk about your own experience in universal terms.

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This.

ultimatebliss said:

Why is sex a selfish desire? Why shouldn't we all feel empowered enough to delve into their kinks. It's not a dirty little secret. It's wonderful! I just don't get why people stay in relationships where they aren't comfortable enough to share themselves completely. I don't buy the stay for the kids argument, nor the displeasing the family, we've got this life to make the best of it. I'm not saying sex is the most important, I'd feel the same way if I met someone that had completely different family values. There are certain things that make us, us. Sex is one of those. I wouldn't change that for anyone. That being said I do believe in compromising as long as both parties have shared completely. For example,the man I sleep with regularly wants me to use a strap on on him, this wouldn't be my thing normally but with him everything turns me on so much that I'll do it. What turns me on the most is that he's so comfortable with me, as I am him that we can ask each other to do anything without judgement.

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Again, your situation is unique to you. How can you spout "open minded-ness" when you're discounting another's VALID reasons to not being open about their kinks.

Sex isn't a selfish desire and everyone should be free to do as they please. Sadly it's not a perfect world and not everyone has the right or ability. I don't judge people or call them weak for keeping their kinks to themselves.

Curious about dom/mes and subs in "vanilla" relationships
I'm always curious about how/why someone with certain desires would date/marry someone who doesn't fulfill said desires. I think sex is a huge part of any relationship, why be with someone that doesn't enjoy the same kinks you do?


Many people answered with reasons why they would. You've done nothing but call their reasons invalid. (p_-)

Stella_Omega said:

I would say that the S in BDSM does indeed stand for Sex, along with standing for Sadism and Slave and Submissive.

Everyone's mileage WILL vary, and that's okay. The trick, ultimatebliss, is not to talk about your own experience in universal terms.

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I'm saying that it stands for a lot of stuff that can exist completely independently from sex. And I kinda like it that way. Skeeves me out that fuckin' everything else in the goddamn world is full of it. I should be able to get away from it in the privacy of my own home, yes? ;P

Sex positivity includes being enthusiastic and accepting of people's decisions to not have sex and their wish to limit the amount of it in their lives. Anything else is compulsory sexuality/rape culture.

--

The thread is funny.

"Why does anybody do X thing?"

"Because--"

"No. Not a reason."

"Well I--"

"I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU."

"Me and my partner have--"

"I'm not saying that I'm judging you? But I'm judging you."

"We--"

"Doing X is the dumbest thing ever and I still don't understand why the heck anybody would do it. Nobody's explaining properly!"

"Why is sex a selfish desire?"

Because nobody except you experiences your orgasm ripping through your body.

That's not to say that sexuality is utterly selfish. Many of us are perfectly able to empathically share our lover's pleasure.

I am fully cognisant that my sexuality is mostly selfish. I have no problems with that, and I am willing to make the trade offs kinda dictated by our society, to get what I want sexually. I know that a lot of people would consider my choices to be immoral. I don't mind. I wouldn't try to force anyone else to live the way I do, -- I will tell tell people who are struggling with that decision themselves, that it's possible.

Wow!

Stella_Omega said:

"Why is sex a selfish desire?"

Because nobody except you experiences your orgasm ripping through your body.

That's not to say that sexuality is utterly selfish. Many of us are perfectly able to empathically share our lover's pleasure.

I am fully cognisant that my sexuality is mostly selfish. I have no problems with that, and I am willing to make the trade offs kinda dictated by our society, to get what I want sexually. I know that a lot of people would consider my choices to be immoral. I don't mind. I wouldn't try to force anyone else to live the way I do, -- I will tell tell people who are struggling with that decision themselves, that it's possible.

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I for sure experience others orgasms. Watching someone cum hearing them feeling them all adds to the pleasure.

ultimatebliss said:

I for sure experience others orgasms. Watching someone cum hearing them feeling them all adds to the pleasure.

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Empathy is one of the human race's best assets.

Double wow!

KoPilot said:

I'm saying that it stands for a lot of stuff that can exist completely independently from sex. And I kinda like it that way. Skeeves me out that fuckin' everything else in the goddamn world is full of it. I should be able to get away from it in the privacy of my own home, yes? ;P

Sex positivity includes being enthusiastic and accepting of people's decisions to not have sex and their wish to limit the amount of it in their lives. Anything else is compulsory sexuality/rape culture.

--

The thread is funny.

"Why does anybody do X thing?"

"Because--"

"No. Not a reason."

"Well I--"

"I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU."

"Me and my partner have--"

"I'm not saying that I'm judging you? But I'm judging you."

"We--"

"Doing X is the dumbest thing ever and I still don't understand why the heck anybody would do it. Nobody's explaining properly!"

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When do I call anyone dumb? No one on here is in the situation to which I'm referring. Everyone seems to be in happy relationships where they talk about their desires. Infact I go on to say that I understand compromise as a mutual decision.

ultimatebliss said:

When do I call anyone dumb? No one on here is in the situation to which I'm referring. Everyone seems to be in happy relationships where they talk about their desires. Infact I go on to say that I understand compromise as a mutual decision.

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I just don't get why people stay in relationships where they aren't comfortable enough to share themselves completely. I don't buy the stay for the kids argument, nor the displeasing the family, we've got this life to make the best of it.

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You wanted answers, people gave you answers, you claim these answers are insufficient. Don't know what more you want?

I feel bad for all if you who think you can't have it all.

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^silly and unrealistic.

And yes, sex is hugely important!

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I'm not saying sex is the most important

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???

You're full of weird preaching and backpedaling. In one post you say none of the answers people have given you are good enough. And then in another you say that you don't know because you're "not them". Make up your mind?

KoPilot said:

In one post you say none of the answers people have given you are good enough. And then in another you say that you don't know because you're "not them". Make up your mind?

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They are working on that.

Sex is very important but not the most important thing in a relationship. If wanting it all is silly and unrealistic then I am both silly and unrealistic. I want to make the boat of this life and for me connecting physically in an honest way with people I care about is a big part of that!
The answers that have been given to me here have made me question even more. Why are people so much more expressive of there wants to strangers than their partners?! I'm not, not saying that there's a right or wrong just that it's something I don't understand. For example any post I've started about wanting to be dominated has been something I've asked for in real time as well. I post about wanting to be tied up and used, in my sex life I ask to be tied up and used. So for me I find it hard to understand why it's hard for anyone to ask for what they crave. So perhaps for me it's an unanswerable question because for me none of the reasons are fathomable in my life. That's not to say they aren't valid.
Perhaps you are all happy in your separate lives, if so kudos to you. In my experiences with talking to people on here they have expressed their unhappiness and that's where the question came from.
So goodnight all. Best wishes and I just hope that for all of us we stay honest and true to ourselves.

ahaha I just... naw, no.

Ugh! Sorry again for all the typos.

As for you Mr. Omega, perhaps you don't understand my side, it's pleasant over here. Lots of smiles and mutually orgasmic orgasms.

Stella_Omega said:

They are working on that.

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Yes, I think that's it.

Curious_in_Cali said:

Man, that is one tall horse. Hope you are wearing a helmet.

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If basic moral judgements are equivalent to sitting on a high-horse for you...

ultimatebliss said:

Sex is very important but not the most important thing in a relationship. If wanting it all is silly and unrealistic then I am both silly and unrealistic. I want to make the boat of this life and for me connecting physically in an honest way with people I care about is a big part of that!
The answers that have been given to me here have made me question even more. Why are people so much more expressive of there wants to strangers than their partners?!

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You're a stranger to most people here, and vice versa. Hence, the people you hear from are going to be the ones who are willing to express their wants to strangers.

Doesn't mean that's all there is, doesn't even mean it's especially common, just means that by its nature it's more visible. Like the people who ask "why do all the gay/kinky/poly/etc folk have to tell everybody about it?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

But, yeah, some people are more comfortable talking to strangers. That might be because it feels safer talking to people who aren't involved in your life - if I say something that makes you think I'm a horrible sick person, I lose a lot less than if I'm getting that reaction from my partner.

And sometimes, when you're talking to someone you know really well, it's hard to have a conversation without tripping up on baggage. A talk about "why don't we do X in bed" turns into "why are you always up and about when I'm in bed ready to make sweet lurve" turns into a discussion about household chores... and maybe that's an important discussion to have, but sometimes you just want to talk about one aspect of life without getting dragged into everything else.

Stella_Omega said:

ahaha I just... naw, no.

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You make me smile (o^^o)

HussarVanburen said:

If basic moral judgements are equivalent to sitting on a high-horse for you...

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To me, it's the judging according to your own moral code as if ecstaticsub and her husband have no right to make up their own rules for their relationship, that puts you on a high-horse.

I work doubles for a long weekend and miss so much fun

ultimatebliss said:

I think most if you have said basically "I met my mate before I realized my kinks and while they don't share them exactly they are willing to indulge at least a little". This is not what I'm asking. I'm talking about the people I've encountered that are miserable in their sexual lives with their mates, do not bring up their kinks to them, and seek outside stimulation. That is my question. Why if you are so unhappy with any aspect of your relationship would you stay. In this case the sex. I would rather be single than compromise something that is important to me. Perfect example; a gentleman I have been sub to and friend to is now in a relationship. The lady does not like toys or kink, he says that's fine but seeks outside stimuli. He cheats. So why stay? Are "we" so scared to be alone? I don't get it. In most if the cases you all have shared I get it, it's been a long time and you have been honest and sharing with your mates it sounds like most are willing to try at least a bit. That's awesome! We obviously change over time.

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I read through this whole thread. I have a question for you. You are in a relationship with a married man who..as you call it "cheats". You ask why would someone like him stay. Have you asked him? It almost sounds to me like you are angry or disappointed that he isn't leaving his wife to be with you. Maybe staying with his wife has many advantages other than sex that you can not provide.

You say you are not into long term relationships. That's good, it fits your attitude.

I am in two long term relationships. A 27 yr marriage and a almost 9 yr long D/s relationship. I have been 100% honest about my sexual needs and desires as I knew them at the time in both relationships. Both have had their ups and downs emotionally and sexually through the years. Both have been very happy in the long run and are much more than I ever could have dreamed for.

In my marriage there were two extended periods of time where we were not having sex. This was due to various reasons including physical health, mental health, job requirements. At these time our sex drives were unmatched by the other. Are you saying we should have divorced and found others? Are you saying we were dishonest about our needs? I call bullshit. It was real life. We love each other and that is more important than sex. Each time we eventually found our way back to our own kind of kinky vanilla-ish that works for us.

The same has been true in my D/s relationship. Even when being owned real life happens and all is not whips and chains and non-stop screaming orgasms. Did he disown me when my son got seriously sick and I was not as sexually available? No, he believes in reality...and he loves me. Did I ask to be released when circumstances in his life interrupted our usual sexual frequency? No. I blieve in reality too...and I love him.

Love and compassion firmly grounded in reality leads to happiness.

Something else I will add...Ten years ago or so I joined a wife-sharing site. I talked with many, many men (and some women) who had extramarital relationships with, but mostly without, their spouses permission. Before that I used to be appalled by "cheaters". After really hearing their side of the story and why they do what they do I became much more understanding. It's not so black and white. It is also not necessarily a question of being honest or dishonest. Try seeing a situation from other's point of view by really talking to them before you pass judgment on their dishonest lives.

IrisAlthea said:

To me, it's the judging according to your own moral code as if ecstaticsub and her husband have no right to make up their own rules for their relationship, that puts you on a high-horse.

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Exactly!

Curious_in_Cali said:

Man, that is one tall horse. Hope you are wearing a helmet.

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IrisAlthea said:

I'd say that's for her and her husband to decide.

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IrisAlthea said:

Where does it say that she betrays him?

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Thank you!

HussarVanburen said:

Why do you find it appropriate that you betray your husband by being owned by another, whereas you would never be married to someone who was "poly"?

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First off you don't know me or how my relationships work. Also as the OP ultimatebliss keeps telling us--honesty is the key to happiness-- I was being honest. I am in love with two men. I love them in different ways but the love is equal. My husband is not poly-minded. He, by his own admission, can not romantically love more than one woman at a time. Therefor, he is not poly. He has no issue whatsoever with me being poly under the guidelines we have agreed to. That "we" includes my dominant. My husband is not submissive. He and my dominant are friends after all these years and everyone is happy. They have agreed upon boundaries.

HussarVanburen said:

She is owned by another man. This is a betrayal.

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It would only be a betrayal if my husband thought is was. Or if I ever lied to him. I have always been truthful. He does not feel betrayed, so therefor it is not betrayal.

HussarVanburen said:

If basic moral judgements are equivalent to sitting on a high-horse for you...

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Basic etiquette is at least get the whole story before making a judgement. Better yet, keep your judgements to yourself.

HussarVanburen said:

If basic moral judgements are equivalent to sitting on a high-horse for you...

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Yes indeed, that's exactly what sitting on a high horse is. "Basic," as you assume, moral judgements.

You and ultimatebliss both-- you both speak as though you think that the inside of your minds is the universe everyone lives in.

Stella_Omega said:

Yes indeed, that's exactly what sitting on a high horse is. "Basic," as you assume, moral judgements.

You and ultimatebliss both-- you both speak as though you think that the inside of your minds is the universe everyone lives in.

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Well, I mean... isn't everyone in cishetero male-led relationships where he gets to fool around because it's his nature, and the woman is docile and stupid and has no libido because its hers?

And isn't everyone in relationships where they can "have it all" (not to be confused with compromise), and those who are unhappy for any reason whatsoever are luckless saps for not breaking it off and wow aren't they just so jealous?

KoPilot said:

Well, I mean... isn't everyone in cishetero male-led relationships where he gets to fool around because it's his nature, and the woman is docile and stupid and has no libido because its hers?

And isn't everyone in relationships where they can "have it all" (not to be confused with compromise), and those who are unhappy for any reason whatsoever are luckless saps for not breaking it off and wow aren't they just so jealous?

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And isn't everyone 19 but playing a 40-year-old on the Interwebz?