Ishmael
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"Women's Right's"
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Harastal
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"rights" in quotes, I don't know, because the word becomes ironic, as intended.
It is fairly self explanatory as an actual right. Males can choose to not reproduce without being picketed, legally delayed or invasively medically scrutinized.
Males can choose to overly produce without having to fight against "religious rights" of the prescriber or pharmacist.
Ishmael
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Might selective righteous indignation there. Your battle ground is very shaky there. Women have all those choices too. Don't want a pregnancy? Use birth control or just don't fuck. All of those services and/or drugs are available to women, apparently there a more than a few out there that believe it's their "right" to demand that others, others including the taxpayer, pick up the tab for them.
If you read the Bill of Rights with care you will see that there is NOTHING in there that requires that some one else pay your bills or that they are obligated to perform any service for you or provide you with goods of any sort.
Let's make up a make believe amendment to the Constitution. "Congress shall pass no law restricting any citizens access to contraceptives, fertility enhancements, abortions, tubal ligation's, or vasectomies."
There ya go, there's our "rights." But I hope you didn't fail to notice that there is nothing in there obligating ANY ONE else to pay for the exercise of your newly created "rights."
Ishmael
ms_ann_thrope
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She's just bitter. Her ex fucked her; got her pregnant; left her with an autistic son; and then split.
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Harastal
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Once a service is given to one gender free of social stigma, that's why there are laws to enforce the same service is provided to other groups.
This has to do with how reproductive rights are treated legally and socially. It is the woman's role in reproduction that is under assault, not the male's.
That is why laws are required to counteract a religious and socially pervasive bias to penalize a woman for reproducing or not reproducing according to what has been socially determined.
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Harastal
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Two out of five, still below average on the truth scale.
ms_ann_thrope
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I never, ever hear nuns complaining about reproductive rights.
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Harastal
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Then you haven't been listening.
"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is." - Sister Joan Chittister, O.S.B.
aaaand...
"The National Coalition of American Nuns (NCAN) continued its long legacy of opposing the Catholic Church's positions on abortion and contraception this January when they wrote an open letter declaring support for the abortion drug mandate outlined in the Affordable Care Act. As LifeSiteNews reports the group followed the letter with an online petition they circulated intended in part to promote the mandate leading up to the March 25th Supreme Court case that will determine its constitutionality. A woman cannot have full autonomy unless she has Reproductive Autonomy."
ms_ann_thrope
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Ulaven_Demorte
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To abstain from sex is their choice (Unless it's a really hot Priest that isn't into the alter boys). They have no horse in the race.
Your assertion, as usual, is incorrect as Reci already pointed out.
The Fail is Strong in you, but you missed the 100 Fail target yesterday.
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Ulaven_Demorte
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Stings when someone shows you to be completely misinformed about your faith huh?
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ms_ann_thrope
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Oh look, Beelzebub himself.
Ulaven_Demorte
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Aziraphale actually.
Lucifer was a tool.
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Harastal
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One nun, one bunch of nuns. All nuns. Your ignorance doesn't get to define reality.
4est_4est_Gump
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So, it's okay to end the life of a baby because that has no social stigma?
Ulaven_Demorte
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So not only misinformed about her faith, but other faiths as well.
That's talent.
Ok, not really.
Ulaven_Demorte
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So, it's okay to end the life of a fetus because that has no social stigma?
FYP
The answer is yes, because it's not a baby, yet.
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Harastal
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So, it's okay to end the life of a baby because that has no social stigma?
The medical and social costs to a woman are such that it is up to her, and not up to anybody else.
If you want to see how otherwise that system gets abused, read some history.
4est_4est_Gump
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Social costs to abortion?
How do you measure a thing like that?
How do you measure a thing like that?
Ulaven_Demorte
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Is it physically painful to be so dense?
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Harastal
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Let me ask you how you measure the costs to the individual woman, then "society" can go be disappointed that she gets a choice. The costs are paid by her, not "society" so therefore she gets the choice.
BabblingBrooke
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So, it's okay to end the life of a baby because that has no social stigma?
It does have a social stigma. You know this. Women who've confided in me that they've had abortions only do so when they trust me. I guarantee you that women you know and respect have had them. But, they keep it quiet to avoid judgment. By the way, many women do not regret it, just to tag that along with your earlier post.
I wish people would champion improving foster care and social services for new mothers like they champion being pro-birth. Absolutely I believe in birth control, but you know what I've observed? The very same people in my area of the country who are passionately "Pro-Life" are also passionately anti-Sex Ed, anti birth control via Planned Parenthood or schools including COLLEGES, and pro death penalty. This doesn't make sense to me.
4est_4est_Gump
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Society pays a heavy price.
Children are never born, who never grow up, who never add their contributions to "society."
Which costs are paid by her? Is this your social costs? Her long-term mental health for short term gain?
Is it so important that she be free of the costs of responsibility for a new life to the point that we have to declare our inhumanity? This isn't a man's point of view since it is shared by many women. This is the point of view of those who believe in real rights and not hyper-privileges of specific groups that expect not just hyper-rights, but publicly-funded hyper-rights. That is why no matter how gruesome the videos of Planned Parenthood are, no matter how many Tillers, Gosnells and academics who are very upfront in saying that even a born baby is not viable, the woman is an unassailable victim, not of her own actions, but of (male) society and she has the right to protect her medical well-being on the taxpayer dime.
True rights demand no one else's resources.
Children are never born, who never grow up, who never add their contributions to "society."
Which costs are paid by her? Is this your social costs? Her long-term mental health for short term gain?
Is it so important that she be free of the costs of responsibility for a new life to the point that we have to declare our inhumanity? This isn't a man's point of view since it is shared by many women. This is the point of view of those who believe in real rights and not hyper-privileges of specific groups that expect not just hyper-rights, but publicly-funded hyper-rights. That is why no matter how gruesome the videos of Planned Parenthood are, no matter how many Tillers, Gosnells and academics who are very upfront in saying that even a born baby is not viable, the woman is an unassailable victim, not of her own actions, but of (male) society and she has the right to protect her medical well-being on the taxpayer dime.
True rights demand no one else's resources.
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Harastal
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That's not even true in a socioeconomic sense. Crime rates dropping precipitously have been attributed to the lack of children that are not wanted or loved. This crime rate drop is mirrored in areas where abortion became legal.
Children will always be born to those who love and care and have the resources to raise and nurture them. There are no limitations on that.
This is about the women who do not have the physical, emotional or social resources to raise a child and choose to terminate. It is up to the individual woman who does not have those resources to make that choice, and it saves a life from abuse and neglect.
Even in simple compassion terms that is not hard to grasp.
ms_ann_thrope
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Through a discussion I had yesterday with Ulaven (Satan) he admitted that a fetus carried in a human uterus is human. He then admitted that a fetus cannot survive outside the womb, therefore a fetus is alive.
He then admitted that murder had to be redefined to allow the slaughter of babies legally.
It's all a rationalization to him.
