New and a bit confused

My girlfriend and I have been together for about three years. The sex has always been amazing, and our sexual histories before we knew each other also were filled with amazing sex. She has always been bisexual and always has craved being a sub.

In the past few years, we have explored deeper into true dom/sub sex, starting out with some of the superficialities, such as using toys, restraints, ddlg talk, etc. Recently, this has started to transition into more of the essentials of dom/sub sex where energy is flowing from the dom to the sub and then back to the dom.

About a month ago, we had a threesome which started that day with her and another girl. I had set this up with complete knowledge and agreement of all.

What happened has me scratching my head. To summarize, the girl voiced her strong desire to dom my girlfriend, and that happened with amazing results.

Since then, sex with my girlfriend has continued to progress further down the road to dom/sub sex, but the experience is much closer to vanilla sex with some superficial accoutrements, like a whip here and there and rope, ball-gag, etc. The emotional energy exchange just doesn’t happen.

We have talked about this, using her experience with the other girl as an interesting landmark, but the conversations have been confusing. She has said that her experience with me is “real,” and that is why it is calm, whereas her experience with the girl was “not real,” exaggerated, self-loathing, her trying to please the other girl, not that great, etc. At other times, she says that the girl “ravished” her, would not take “no” for an answer, and that my girlfriend craves that.

By the way, I realized at one point that my home surveillance system captured audio of what happened with the other girl, and the sounds that my girlfriend made were FANTASTIC. I have never heard anything like that from any human, especially for one and a half hours straight. The only thing that comes close is how she sounds about 10 seconds before cumming and about 10 seconds while she is cumming with me.

So, over the past month, we have been having amazing sex, but again it is really more like mutual masturbation without the real dom/sub power transfer/emotions. We have talked about it quite a few times, and she says that what we have is “better,” but then she says that we should try to have what she had with the other girl. I could be fine with either idea, but I can’t figure out which one is true!

Any advice for me (although I really did not formulate a question)?

Hi there. First off, congratulations for finding someone you mesh with so well, it's truly a rare and wonderful thing to find someone that you can communicate so openly with.

Now, I can understand where you are coming from, as beginning forays tend be trying or confusing and it's especially hard when your sub does not seem to be able to quite articulate his/her needs ( hence the flip flopping ). Being a good Dom is mostly psychological ( imo ) and hinges upon an understanding of what your pets need and furthering those needs accordingly. Communication IS a very important part of any relationship, and here even more so, but most subs do not want to have to explain everything or be required to spell things out as it tends to shatter the dynamic.

" We have talked about it quite a few times, and she says that what we have is “better,” but then she says that we should try to have what she had with the other girl. I could be fine with either idea, but I can’t figure out which one is true!"

My friend, they are more than likely both true and not mutually exclusive. What you have is an established relationship, built on love and affection, that has had another layer added to it in the form of the D/s play. She does not sound like a pure sub or hard m, but someone who wants both a lover and a master depending on her mood (during play, you should let her know that she is a selfish little thing, lol ). This is, more than likely, why her answers are coming off as confusing.

The examples you provided are a perfect blue print to build a foundation for the direction you should take. Example,

" such as using toys, restraints, ddlg talk, etc."

This leads one to believe that she might respond well to restrained edging with verbal teasing mixed with positive reinforcement.

Being the one who takes control is a double edged sword, while you call the shots and may feel invigorated at the prospect of having someone at your beck and call, you also shoulder the majority of responsibility and must be able to read your partner well and respond in kind.

I highly recommend, instead of focusing on past escapades, you talk about fantasies and things she is curious about. Discussing fantasies is one of the best ways I've found to get inside your partners head and paint a clearer picture of things without needing much explanation. This will both allow you to be ready with future plays already planned out and keep up the role you have chosen to take on without needing things spelled out.

Hope I was able to help in some small way and wish you all the best.

_Necrosomantic_ said:

This leads one to believe that she might respond well to restrained edging with verbal teasing mixed with positive reinforcement.

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Yes!

It's funny. During our first conversations seconds after we had sex (after she had sex with the girl), she reflexively started explaining why the sex was so different (I think from a desire to try to make me feel good). She said that what "we do" in 10 minutes has all the activity of what she did with the other girl for one and a half hours. Of course, it is better to take that 10 minutes of activity and stretch it out with edging. She would agree 100%.

The problem I found is this. The next few times, I stretched things out to an hour or so. It was amazing. She said it was the most amazing sex of her life (doubt it, but it was still amazing sex). At various times, I used ball-gag, leg restraints, clothespins, flogger, anal hook, butt plug, Hitachi, biting, etc. She begged to cum. I wouldn't let her. I did not do great verbal teasing.

But here is the problem. She was basically in ecstasy for about 10 seconds before cumming and then another 10 seconds after cumming. She probably came hard 5 or 6 times. Inbetween cumming, she was not at all in a state of "complete loss of control" that she told me that she was in from the first minute through the last minute when she was with the other girl.

So, it seems to me that just spreading out 10 minutes of intense sex into one hour of several few-minute episodes, sprinkled with tameness inbetween, is not great.

After having given this some thought, and reading online, I wrote the following (which has *some* copied/pasted text from websites along with some of my own words). This is what I want with her but what I clearly do NOT have:

Once the sub has been “broken down” in the bedroom, she is under the dom's complete control. She has fully abandoned all attempts at composure, all her hesitations, and all of her responsibility to control herself. The sub likes the feeling of having no control and being at the bidding of the dom. It allows them a worry-free state, where they are able to relax and take whatever the dom dishes out.

This state is the purest state of pleasure and ecstasy for a sub. In this state, the sub's thoughts melt away, and they will seem to devolve into a primal zone. The energy from the dom will flow with no resistance into the sub, passed through words, gestures, looks, touch, or toys. This energy is received by the sub without any mental pre-processing by the sub because the sub no longer has any ability to control herself. The energy flows throughout the sub's body where it causes her to feel the most intense pleasure imaginable, culminating in continuous deep groans, uncontrolled screaming, and explosive orgasms.

In this way, the energy is passed back from the sub to the dom. In the best cases, the energy flows continuously in a complete circuit until the dom decides to stop. The main benefit of this experience is learning to trust someone completely enough to let go and give them control. This is a liberating feeling for the sub. Even though there is pain (emotional or physical) involved, it is a good feeling--like being high. The more that the sub is trained, the more it becomes second nature.

You're doing a lot of disbelieving of what she says. You don't believe she thinks your sex together is better. You don't believe that session was the bedt ses of her life. This isn't going to work if you don't believe what she's telling you about her experience. What you're saying is she doesn't behave the same during sex with you as she did with the other woman. So the problem is with you. You are a different person, so you are not going to have thwme same dynamic with her, no matter how much you try. I think you need to stop with the comparisons and believe her when she tells you things.

SpunThings said:

You're doing a lot of disbelieving of what she says. You don't believe she thinks your sex together is better. You don't believe that session was the bedt ses of her life. This isn't going to work if you don't believe what she's telling you about her experience. What you're saying is she doesn't behave the same during sex with you as she did with the other woman. So the problem is with you. You are a different person, so you are not going to have thwme same dynamic with her, no matter how much you try. I think you need to stop with the comparisons and believe her when she tells you things.

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I hear you. There is some truth to what you say.

One of the biggest problems she has in life is managing her anxiety. She is on several prescribed drugs for it and has been in therapy for it. Her anxiety leads her to lie often in order to protect the feelings of others.* This gets her in a lot of trouble. She can't stand to see people hurt.

See where I am coming from?


*In fact, I think that her purest form of pleasure was when she was 100% free of needing to lie about anything during the subsex that she had. During those moments, not only was there no need to lie, it wasn't even an option.

SpunThings said:

You're doing a lot of disbelieving of what she says. You don't believe she thinks your sex together is better. You don't believe that session was the bedt ses of her life. This isn't going to work if you don't believe what she's telling you about her experience. What you're saying is she doesn't behave the same during sex with you as she did with the other woman. So the problem is with you. You are a different person, so you are not going to have thwme same dynamic with her, no matter how much you try. I think you need to stop with the comparisons and believe her when she tells you things.

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^ Very much this.

After learning that she struggles with anxiety and that she has a tendency to bend the truth to spare others feelings, that is something that needs to be addressed. She should not feel the slightest bit uncomfortable saying that she needs something or telling you that she doesn't like certain things. You also might want to dial back the amount and the way you broach the topic as what you feel is simply you trying to be a good partner, she might find stressful, which tends to make people shut down or lie. Be casual and reassure her that she's not going to hurt your feelings by being honest.

The key to building a successful D/s relationship is trust which is earned by being attentive and understanding ( the exerpts you posted are about something you have to work for a long time to achieve, that sort of thing doesn't just happen), constantly wanting/needing to know the score is counter to the goal you seem to have set. The feelings of inadequacy you have are more than likely self invented and only serve as a roadblock in this instance. You're overthinking this, slow down.

hooterbif said:

I hear you. There is some truth to what you say.

One of the biggest problems she has in life is managing her anxiety. She is on several prescribed drugs for it and has been in therapy for it. Her anxiety leads her to lie often in order to protect the feelings of others.* This gets her in a lot of trouble. She can't stand to see people hurt.

See where I am coming from?


*In fact, I think that her purest form of pleasure was when she was 100% free of needing to lie about anything during the subsex that she had. During those moments, not only was there no need to lie, it wasn't even an option.

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You're still going to have to act like you believe her, unless you have very clear evidence that she's lying. I totally understand your perspective, as well as hers. If you bring it up a lot, she very likely is sensing your insecurity. Maybe it's time to stop talking about the threesome. It was wise to stop pursuing it. Then you can work on your relationship together. Both of you can use positive reinforcement to encourage the other to do the things that work for you.

Thank you all for these thoughtful comments.

I am new here, but I can already see that the quality of the comments are higher than I have ever seen on a message board.

(Last night was interesting. We had a great session, or so I thought. I stuffed her wet panties in her mouth, bit her all over, gave her an ear job, edged her, she came hard, etc. She said it was the least favorite time that she had sex with me and that for the first time she felt the same feeling that caused her to not have sex with her past boyfriends. I know what she is talking about because she has told me about that before. She says that if she feels that the man is inhibited or cannot dominate her, then she shuts down and can go on not having sex for several years with a man like that. The crazy thing is that in the moment, I had NO IDEA that it was underwhelming last night. She finished by saying that she desperately wants me to dominate her and that in it our "natural state." No pressure on me, right?).

It sounds like you're over complicating things. I also notice that you don't seem to be dominating, you're topping. By that, I mean you're doing things to her for her (nothing wrong with that, btw). And you're only goal seems to be making her have a mind blowing orgasm (orgasms are good, but it seems you've only engaged her body and not her mind).

She has said that her experience with me is “real,” and that is why it is calm, whereas her experience with the girl was “not real,” exaggerated, self-loathing, her trying to please the other girl, not that great, etc. At other times, she says that the girl “ravished” her, would not take “no” for an answer, and that my girlfriend craves that.

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It sounds like she wants to please and not necessarily be pleased. If she is anything like me, it's a complete turn off for my lover to do things just to please me (topping me because it gets me off better). I want them to do what they like, and have me do things for them that they like. That's not to say I never get things that I like, but that the majority of what we do is me pleasing them.

So, it seems to me that just spreading out 10 minutes of intense sex into one hour of several few-minute episodes, sprinkled with tameness inbetween, is not great.

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^^^You said it yourself. Intense sex does not necessarily translate as dominating or being dominated.

She finished by saying that she desperately wants me to dominate her and that in it our "natural state." No pressure on me, right?).

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You should ask her what she thinks your "natural state" is. Based on the writing you posted and the miscommunications I see here, I'd say you both are not on the same page and that you both may have some unrealistic expectations of what d/s looks like.

Here's a link that may help you with topping, bottoming, dom and sub.

This might also help you.

_____

hooterbif said:

*In fact, I think that her purest form of pleasure was when she was 100% free of needing to lie about anything during the subsex that she had. During those moments, not only was there no need to lie, it wasn't even an option.

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Then don't give her the option to lie. I totally agree with Meek Me and Consilience.

My husband is an awesomely perverted kinky Top. He isn't Dominant. The difference? He never really gets inside my head and pushes - as Consilience said - my "sub-buttons."

I'd love it if at some random time, he'd say that in the next couple of days he was going to put me in my place for some transgression. This leaves me wondering what? when? how? and I like being in that state of anticipation.

Even better would be that whatever transpired wasn't considered a "session." Some play-date we penciled in on a Saturday night with the toys all laid out. Don't get me wrong, I love those too. But to be dominated in - as your girlfriend says - your natural state - it takes some random "crawl over here and suck my cock while I eat dinner" moments.

hooterbif said:

Thank you all for these thoughtful comments.

I am new here, but I can already see that the quality of the comments are higher than I have ever seen on a message board.

(Last night was interesting. We had a great session, or so I thought. I stuffed her wet panties in her mouth, bit her all over, gave her an ear job, edged her, she came hard, etc. She said it was the least favorite time that she had sex with me and that for the first time she felt the same feeling that caused her to not have sex with her past boyfriends. I know what she is talking about because she has told me about that before. She says that if she feels that the man is inhibited or cannot dominate her, then she shuts down and can go on not having sex for several years with a man like that. The crazy thing is that in the moment, I had NO IDEA that it was underwhelming last night. She finished by saying that she desperately wants me to dominate her and that in it our "natural state." No pressure on me, right?).

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It doesn't sound like you thought you were inhibited! I wonder why she thought you were?

The scene you describe above sounds uber-hot. If I had wet panties in my mouth and you rubbed your cock all over my ear, not using my holes, I'd be delirous. It touches a bunch of stuff for me about humiliation and insecurity about being a perfect "hole" and here you're using my ear... and I love to be played with in that way.

It sounds like that wasn't the case for your girlfriend. Consilience said it - it sounds like you're just doing a bunch of stuff that sounds like bdsm. Her body is responding, it feels good but it's not getting in her head. It was just a session.

You guys sound like you're having a lot of fun figuring this out. Someone else mentioned this - don't overanalyze everything. Talk about it, have more fun, try new stuff and keep moving forward.

MeekMe said:

It sounds like you're over complicating things. I also notice that you don't seem to be dominating, you're topping. By that, I mean you're doing things to her for her (nothing wrong with that, btw). And you're only goal seems to be making her have a mind blowing orgasm (orgasms are good, but it seems you've only engaged her body and not her mind).

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Yes yes yes yes yes.

I want to change this. After many years of giving women mind blowing orgasms, it is hard to change gears after realizing that more pleasure would come from other dynamics. I'm trying.

MeekMe said:

It sounds like she wants to please and not necessarily be pleased. If she is anything like me, it's a complete turn off for my lover to do things just to please me (topping me because it gets me off better). I want them to do what they like, and have me do things for them that they like. That's not to say I never get things that I like, but that the majority of what we do is me pleasing them.

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Yes yes yes.

One of the first things she said after being dommed by that girl was that it sounded completely different than sex with me because "I am a people pleaser, and the girl was not going to take no for an answer and she completely needed to dominate me." That is what she wants from me she said.

MeekMe said:

You should ask her what she thinks your "natural state" is. Based on the writing you posted and the miscommunications I see here, I'd say you both are not on the same page and that you both may have some unrealistic expectations of what d/s looks like.

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Here is what she said to me about last night:

Last night was my least good sexual experience with you.... Bc I needed the Dom in you*, and it was clearly absent from you, and I needed to be responding as a sub... Instead it just felt like missionary sex... Just not exciting to me...

You've done it many times
Every time you came close to my ear...

I was desperately pining for you to control me [she told me a few days ago that she needs me to verbally control her like the girl did to her]
I think it's natural for us, actually.

cookiecat said:

Some play-date we penciled in on a Saturday night with the toys all laid out. Don't get me wrong, I love those too.

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She begs me for surprises, instead of scheduled sessions.

In fact, the "threesome" was something that I set up as a surprise for her. I had the girl show up with 20 minutes left on my girlfriend's shift. They were then together without me for about 4 hours. She has asked me to set up more surprises for her (with me or with other girls).

Some thoughts. As has been said, dominating is about authority. What about a dominant who is all about pleasing his/her partner? That dominant uses their authority to do what they want. Perhaps she would not be compatible with such a dom, and not feel dominated by them. My husband is a sadist/top, because he loves doing things to me to get a reaction. He also tells me to do things to him, but more than half of our play is his doing things to me. Thankfully I'm a bottom and masochist too. I have a need for him to be in charge during sex, but that has no relation to what we do. It just means we do what he says we do unless in the off chance I have a problem with something.

So perhaps she does have a specific idea of what a dom is. She's going to have to be much less vague with you for you to determine if you can adopt any of that. A dom can do some changing of their style, but I think too much of trying to fit into the wrong mold will make it feel forced for everyone. You are going to have your own inherent style.

Maybe she can go through some fiction that resonates with her and highlight a few passages for you.

SpunThings said:

Maybe she can go through some fiction that resonates with her and highlight a few passages for you.

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I think that it is as simple as what you see in lez dom porn. That is what she had with that girl, and that was the moment when the lightbulb went off in her head.

She gave me the blueprint for why it happened that way. She said that the girl completely ravished her, restrained her, edged her, was verbal the whole time, spanked her, choked her, deep-throated her with the flogger, etc. The girl was ALWAYS staring at her face, like she was being hunted. (She even went on to say that the girl was not very good with toys, *only* made her cum two times, and barely made her squirt. But, it's not about all those things, right?)

Also, she said that it mattered that she was the hottest girl she had ever been with and she has a nice rack - major turn on for my girl. So, I can't replace the boobs, but she is also very physically attracted to me.

The problem is no matter how I have experimented with the "blueprint" above, it clearly has not done the trick. Like we are all agreeing, it ended up producing explosive mind-blowing sex, usually 5-10 orgasms per session, buckets and buckets of squirt, blah blah blah, but little dom/sub dynamic.

Can someone tell me how to upload an avatar?

You need to have more posts before you can do that - I think it's 100.

If you want to rack up posts quickly, play some of the game threads

LallyH said:

You need to have more posts before you can do that - I think it's 100.

If you want to rack up posts quickly, play some of the game threads

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Thank you.

hooterbif said:

I think that it is as simple as what you see in lez dom porn. That is what she had with that girl, and that was the moment when the lightbulb went off in her head.

She gave me the blueprint for why it happened that way. She said that the girl completely ravished her, restrained her, edged her, was verbal the whole time, spanked her, choked her, deep-throated her with the flogger, etc. The girl was ALWAYS staring at her face, like she was being hunted. (She even went on to say that the girl was not very good with toys, *only* made her cum two times, and barely made her squirt. But, it's not about all those things, right?)

Also, she said that it mattered that she was the hottest girl she had ever been with and she has a nice rack - major turn on for my girl. So, I can't replace the boobs, but she is also very physically attracted to me.

The problem is no matter how I have experimented with the "blueprint" above, it clearly has not done the trick. Like we are all agreeing, it ended up producing explosive mind-blowing sex, usually 5-10 orgasms per session, buckets and buckets of squirt, blah blah blah, but little dom/sub dynamic.

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So basically, not you. I don't mean to be depressing, but that's the impression I'm getting.

SpunThings said:

So basically, not you. I don't mean to be depressing, but that's the impression I'm getting.

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Oh, that doesn't need to be depressing. If that is the answer, then I can focus my energies elsewhere.

For now, I am confused because she says that we have had something like it and she is eager to get to that place again. So, maybe we'll have an answer either way soon.

hooterbif said:

Oh, that doesn't need to be depressing. If that is the answer, then I can focus my energies elsewhere.

For now, I am confused because she says that we have had something like it and she is eager to get to that place again. So, maybe we'll have an answer either way soon.

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Then I'd ask her what specifically you did during those times. Good luck.

hooterbif said:

Oh, that doesn't need to be depressing. If that is the answer, then I can focus my energies elsewhere.

For now, I am confused because she says that we have had something like it and she is eager to get to that place again. So, maybe we'll have an answer either way soon.

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She needs to turn off her damn brain. Because I suspect her brain (xyz = natural domination; abc = great sex, but not dominant sex) is what's getting in the way.

CutieMouse said:

She needs to turn off her damn brain. Because I suspect her brain (xyz = natural domination; abc = great sex, but not dominant sex) is what's getting in the way.

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Well, at the risk of looking like I am psychoanalyzing her.....

I get the feeling that her head got a bit spinned around when she was with that girl. She said many many contradictory things about it, and ever since then she has increased this theme of sex vs. d/s.

I think that she is struggling to understand why her reactions with the girl were so different than with me. She and I both agree that our sex sounds/looks like extreme porn to 99.999999% of the population and that the sex she had with the girl makes our sex look like Sunday school. She completely lost her mind for over an hour.

Like I say, I guess we are going to find out soon.

hooterbif said:

Well, at the risk of looking like I am psychoanalyzing her.....

I get the feeling that her head got a bit spinned around when she was with that girl. She said many many contradictory things about it, and ever since then she has increased this theme of sex vs. d/s.

I think that she is struggling to understand why her reactions with the girl were so different than with me. She and I both agree that our sex sounds/looks like extreme porn to 99.999999% of the population and that the sex she had with the girl makes our sex look like Sunday school. She completely lost her mind for over an hour.

Like I say, I guess we are going to find out soon.

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Because for whatever reason... Her brain probably turned off. Example - I have had more missionary sex with my current partner in the last 9 months, than I have in the previous 9 years. Very few (outside looking in) people would see any degree of power exchange, kink or BDSM in 95+% of our sex life.

But the man can turn off my brain like no one else ever has. And the sex is spectacular... We're just starting to wander down kinky paths, too. lol

CutieMouse said:

Because for whatever reason... Her brain probably turned off.

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Yep.

CutieMouse said:

But the man can turn off my brain like no one else ever has. And the sex is spectacular... We're just starting to wander down kinky paths, too. lol

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What does that to you?