M
miles
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A friend of mine from South Philly sounds just like Joe Pesci - without trying.
If Gitmo is a key to terrorist recruiting...
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Ishmael
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Should we close the prisons and release all of the prisoners?
Isn't that how organized crime recruits?
If you get caught, you go to the big house for the best years of your life! It's a sweet deal!
That IS the convoluted logic they'd have us believe.
Ishmael
4est_4est_Gump
Run Forrest! RUN!
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And now, el Presidente is parsing;
It is/was a great recruiting tool for al Qaeda...
So what is the tool for their subset, ISIS if it is not the weakness of western leadership?
It is/was a great recruiting tool for al Qaeda...
So what is the tool for their subset, ISIS if it is not the weakness of western leadership?
M
miles
Guest
The only recruiting tool in existence.
Ishmael
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Their recruiting tool is their philosophical view of the Qu'ran, all else falls into the "on top of that" category.
Ishmael
M
miles
Guest
Jon Lovitz is a far better liar.
Brollyanna
Doo-wop thou wilt.
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Should we close the prisons and release all of the prisoners?
Isn't that how organized crime recruits?
If you get caught, you go to the big house for the best years of your life! It's a sweet deal!
Most of the people in Guantanamo were brought there by "extraordinary rendition" (newspeak if ever there was any) and are held there without any charges and without the chance to defend themselves. This is not the case for the general prison population.
We're either better than the terrorists, or were just the same.
Disgustipated
LAWLZ
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It's a good thing you know your place on the Lit because it's the only thing you're worth a damn for.
The only recruiting tool in existence.
To you, this is like having a One Direction poster on the wall like schoolgirl would.
Colonel Hogan
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Most of the people in Gitmo were captured in a foreign combat theater and were/are held under the law of war which (even the Geneva convention) allows for removal from the battlefield and held without charge until "cessation of hostilities."
Under the early 1950s Supreme Court decision Johnson v. Eisentrager, detainees held under the law of war in a detention facility on foreign soil did not have the right of habeas corpus to challenge the legality of their detention.
That precedent was over turned by the Supreme Court in 2008. Now any person in U. S. custody has habeas rights. Obviously, that is not the same as a defense if they have not been charged with a crime.
The whole point of indefinite military detention in war is that no country should have the moral right to capture enemy forces as an act of self-defense and then be compelled to release them only to have them return to fight against their captors.
This has already happened with several former detainees released by the United States, and it is patently absurd.
You either know the law or you don't. And you clearly don't,
Sean
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Which "law of war" covers locking people up in a concentration camp without trial for over a decade and repeatedly torturing them for wearing the wrong make of watch?
Colonel Hogan
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Gee, I believe you are alleging a fundamental human rights violation that has absolutely nothing to do with the accurate principle of law I cited.
Other than making you feel all righteous and stuff, what did you specifically accomplish?
Sean
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You're the one defending your country's use of kidnapping, concentration camps and torture. What do you think that accomplished?
Sean Renaud
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I think the reality here is that the legality of GITMO isn't particularly important at this juncture. It has long since become a symbol that is synonymous with torture, unlawful imprisonment and other bad things. Closing down GITMO with a huge ceremony with Obama and Bush and whatever prominent Islamic individuals could make the photo op then moving them to an identical prison in Alaska would be a victory in most ways.
Neither administration has done a good job of even attempting to educate the masses. Maybe it's because both sides see it as a good wedge issue. People on "our" side think we should be moral and right and people on "our" side think we should do anything to win. So here is another issue where it's been over a decade, the media has had more than enough time to drill this information into our skulls with actual drills if need be. I also happen to live in a world with youtube, twitter, facebook and hundreds of government officials in the know. I don't buy that at no time between now and 2001 (or whenever it opened) that not one of them COULD spare the time to educate the public because when 60% (being generous I think it's probably in the high 90's) are pretty damn ignorant on a subject and also emotionally involved and making decisions based on it some fucking body has an obligation to unfuck things.
Neither administration has done a good job of even attempting to educate the masses. Maybe it's because both sides see it as a good wedge issue. People on "our" side think we should be moral and right and people on "our" side think we should do anything to win. So here is another issue where it's been over a decade, the media has had more than enough time to drill this information into our skulls with actual drills if need be. I also happen to live in a world with youtube, twitter, facebook and hundreds of government officials in the know. I don't buy that at no time between now and 2001 (or whenever it opened) that not one of them COULD spare the time to educate the public because when 60% (being generous I think it's probably in the high 90's) are pretty damn ignorant on a subject and also emotionally involved and making decisions based on it some fucking body has an obligation to unfuck things.
Colonel Hogan
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Are you out of your fucking mind??? I am defending no such thing. Try reading my post to Brollyana one more time.
I merely cited the international legal principle of indefinite detention of combatant detainees as well as a prior legal precedent (since reversed) that denied habeas rights for those same detainees.
The law of war (and any other laws for that matter) remain in force for even those people and countries who adhere to it in part and violate it in part.
I'm almost certain you know and understand that, but why let it get in the way of grandstanding, right?
Sean
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I just think it's a complete non sequitur. The majority of GITMO detainees weren't taken on the battlefield, they were sold for cash by the Northern Alliance. Or rounded up in the former Yugoslavia. Or arrested in Kabul for wearing the wrong kind of watch, or for having the wrong passenger in their taxi. Or kidnapped from the streets of major European cities. So you can keep your specious bullshit and shove it up your ringpiece.
Ubiquitious_too
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For terrorists, the entire world is their battlefield. You obviously have never had your life endangered.
Sean
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Can you not fucking read? The vast majority of those locked up in the US concentration camp in Cuba had fuck all to do with terrorism. And I think after living through the US funded mass terrorism campaigns of the Irish republican terrorists, I've probably been closer to it than you ever will.
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
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This is precisely why it cannot be treated as a war. The entire planet cannot be a legal battlefield for a myriad of reasons.
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
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Aside from you repeating it over and over again is there any reason why we should believe this?
Sean
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Google Noraid and IRA and pick any source you trust.
Colonel Hogan
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War is wherever opposing forces choose to fight it. Go back and look at a map of the active combat fronts in the European and Pacific theaters in World War II.
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
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Aside from the generic it's your claim you get to show your work I wasn't clear. Given our countries are still allies someone on your side obviously thought you deserved it if us funding the IRA is true, known and yet the status quo is. However I meant that the majority of GITMO detainees were captured under any given circumstance.
ms_ann_thrope
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Obama had 8 years to close it down, but didn't. I guess when they actually show you the daily security briefings, you understand why not.
Sean
We'll see.
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Say, seaniepoo: could you enlighten us in regards to "your country's" role in rendering jihadis?
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