Stories that appeal to women

KenNicottii said:

.... Pro Tip: (Most) women don’t find it sexy when a man gets cum in her hair, as I’ve been informed by my female editors......

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No joking! Do you know how hard it is to get that stuff outta your hair!!!!!

Now I aim for both segments of the market. The guy shoots in the girl's hair and the girl gives him total crap about it afterwards!!!!

LargoKitt said:

I am working on a story, more than one actually, that I hope will ring the chimes of women readers. I am following several self imposed guidelines:

Tease - that is, develop the relationships slowly, with some stops and starts.
Avoid the cliché terms in the sex scenes.
Lots of dialogue.
Some risky romance
Make sex about how people feel.

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Yeah, okay, so I will just state right off the bat that I would not be considered a 'typical female' in any aspect of life and especially as a reader. I read stories in all categories, I write what comes to me without sticking to any stereotype and I pretty much do whatever I feel like.

That being said, if you want a story to appeal to a female reader, here is a simple tip: write a good one. It doesn't need to be dumbed down or changed because your target audience has a cunt instead of a cock, if you write a great story, women (and men) will read it.

If you're looking for things to avoid, as far as what irritates (me) a female reader, then here's a list:

• Chances are, in real life, your chick is not going to cum through sex. It takes work, just like real life and frankly I'm pretty sure if a woman is lucky to get one orgasm she'd call it a night and not push her luck.

• Please, for the love of all that is holy, if you write a story with a female virgin, look up where the hymen is located. I can't tell you how many stories I've read (by men AND women) where the author has no clue what this actually is.

• If your female character is overly whiny, or has zero character flaws it will probably irritate more people than it attracts. Same goes with men...so I second the notion of make your characters believable.

• I'm not one who enjoys a tease...we're on an erotic fiction site, give me fucking. (Please.)

• As far as cliché terms, I suppose it depends on what you consider cliché ...if you use the word 'button' or 'nub' to refer to a clit, or vagina instead of cunt, it jars me (at least, others I'm sure) from the comfort of reading erotica and I'll move on to the next story. I use the word cunt all the time (in real life too!) and haven't run into any issues yet.

• And for feelings, I think there's this perception that women are 'emotional' all the time...we're not. Our emotions are dictated by our cunts. Whether or not women will admit it, our cunts rule the roost as much as a man's cock controls him. I have to deal with female emotions all the time, frankly, and I don't really want to listen to someone else blathering on about it. Now, if you want to get more detailed about sex scenes, aim for what they are feeling physically instead of emotionally; I think often this gets left out or skipped by men as they simply say "it feels good" or whatnot. So, describe the physical enjoyment of it more.

I apologize if this came off overly snarky. I choose to blame my cunt for it if it did.

SimonDoom said:

This is an interesting observation. I would describe my stories as the opposite: if you take the sex out, the meat of the story is gone. There's nothing left. I like writing with an emphasis on the sex (or whatever aspect of sex, etc. is the focus of the story), because for me personally, that's what erotica is, but writing with this focus entails the risk that characters get short shrift. I have to be on guard against that and I'm not always as successful at it as I'd like to be.

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I've been playing with the ratios of sex to plot in my stories; I'd say there's appeal for pretty much all ratios, but it would be interesting to know if there was a difference among the categories where lower sex content stories do worse/better.

Don't want to sound schizophrenic but 'sometimes' there is another person who occasionally contributes under this pseudonym, and very VERY rarely, a totally different person again.

...'I' could tell you something about 'from a woman's perspective' and you know, frankly, there are more women who aspire to writing than who actually end up doing it or making what they write public. That is, even though there are a lot of women who do romance fiction but a lot of other stuff as well. There could be more. They think about it, they don't do it, or maybe - as in the case of my own mother - generally expose what they do that publicly.

'Stories that appeal to women.' Hmn.

'Once Upon A Time...' Nup, no good, not really.

Hence we have Sc-Fi and FUTURISM: 'Tonight, We Shall Be...' A LOT better.

There is a secret about women writing stories, especially erotic stories:

...they keep things they 'invent, create, or pioneer' to themselves for use in RL.

What they know has power in it. For them as individuals.

And so, for a women to 'give' it out (in a 'FULL HD QUALITY' sense, with nothing held back) in the format of a fiction story is an act of some generosity.

Many of the posts at LIT are psychotic and ignorant jibber-jabber.

FEELINGLUCKYPUNK said:

Many of the posts at LIT are psychotic and ignorant jibber-jabber.

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Only to you.

There are two aspects to the question, and they don't exactly overlap:

1.Writing believable female characters
2. Writing erotica that's specifically designed for women

The consensus seems to be that you can't have the second without the first. I'd agree with that.

As an experiment, I once wrote a story twice. The main characters were a man and a woman. I wrote the first one from the man's POV and the second from the woman's. I remember my (female) editor analyzing the second story more rigorously and questioning what I might have thought was going on in the woman's mind. It took a couple of re-writes before she was satisfied, whereas she let the first one pass without comment.

I really can't say that I have a handle on writing stuff that would specifically turn a woman on, since almost all of the commenters have been men, as far as I could tell. But I do try to keep the female characters in the real world, along with the guys they're attracted to.

Athalia said:

I think you're on the right track, although my often contain hardly any dialogue or "risky" (risque?) romance. My feeling is that if you make the character believable as a person, stressing not their sexuality but their view of the world, you're more than half-way there, and you can then "flesh it out" with sex as it proceeds from the circumstances in which the MC finds herself.

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Back in the day, I remember Athalia remarking that she started writing stories was because there weren't enough stories that appealed to her, and she figured that there were other women out there who felt the same, and that would be her readership. So there's part of your answer right there. I'd start with her stories, see who favorited them, and see what other favorites those readers had. From that, you might be able to construct some idea of the kind of story that appeal to female readers.

AfterDusk said:

I've been playing with the ratios of sex to plot in my stories; I'd say there's appeal for pretty much all ratios, but it would be interesting to know if there was a difference among the categories where lower sex content stories do worse/better.

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I'm not talking about the ratio of plot words to sex words, but about the focus of the story. If I write an exhibitionism story, then the exhibitionist act is the heart of the story. There may be lots of buildup and surrounding plot, but none of it will mean anything without the exhibitionist act. It's impossible to take out. All my erotic stories are like that, although some of them do feature plenty of buildup. The sex and the plot are inseparable.

SimonDoom said:

I'm not talking about the ratio of plot words to sex words, but about the focus of the story. If I write an exhibitionism story, then the exhibitionist act is the heart of the story. There may be lots of buildup and surrounding plot, but none of it will mean anything without the exhibitionist act. It's impossible to take out. All my erotic stories are like that, although some of them do feature plenty of buildup. The sex and the plot are inseparable.

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I wasn't necessarily talking about word count either, but more percentages; for example, your In the Hallway story has a substantial amount of build up. It isn't just fucking right from the start, but there's a bit of plot and back story to it; yes, removing the actual sex scene would lessen the overall greatness of the story but to me, at least, that story wasn't about out right sex but more the chase, the pushing of the character's comfort zones, etc. While the entire story has an erotic tone to it and climaxes at the actual fucking bit, I'd say maybe (?) it is about 80% about plot.

Does this make sense or am I just another crazy person rambling on?

AfterDusk said:

I've been playing with the ratios of sex to plot in my stories; I'd say there's appeal for pretty much all ratios, but it would be interesting to know if there was a difference among the categories where lower sex content stories do worse/better.

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Successful stories in Romance are typically high on plot compared to sex. That also seems to be true in SciFi and Fantasy. I'm told it can be true in Mature, but I can't vouch for that myself.

Romantic stories (or maybe 'sentimental' would be better) can succeed in a lot of categories, and that usually comes with more plot compared to the sex. I even have successful stories in I/T where the plot heavily outweighs the sex.

NotWise said:

Successful stories in Romance are typically high on plot compared to sex. That also seems to be true in SciFi and Fantasy. I'm told it can be true in Mature, but I can't vouch for that myself.

Romantic stories (or maybe 'sentimental' would be better) can succeed in a lot of categories, and that usually comes with more plot compared to the sex. I even have successful stories in I/T where the plot heavily outweighs the sex.

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So, would you say that it boils down to successful/good writing more than a hot sex scene?

AfterDusk said:

So, would you say that it boils down to successful/good writing more than a hot sex scene?

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Different writers succeed with different approaches. It's all in what you want to do. If you want to write more plot and characterization then you can be successful with it -- and probably in any category.

40 years ago almost all women read Harlequin romances. In recent times they devoured 50 SHADES OF GRAY. Any other proposition submitted here is ass cracks talking.

AfterDusk said:

So, would you say that it boils down to successful/good writing more than a hot sex scene?

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Good story telling will always get readers. Good erotic story-telling should add a tingle or two.

FEELINGLUCKYPUNK said:

40 years ago almost all women read Harlequin romances. In recent times they devoured 50 SHADES OF GRAY. Any other proposition submitted here is ass cracks talking.

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As always, wise, helpful, and temperate.

I'm about 45 pages into my first story (which may or may not ever get published here as I seem to need a way to explicitly state what seems like 30 disclaimers without it being narrative breaking).

For me it's less about appealing to one gender or another, and more about trying to write authentic characters and good story. Towards this end, I self impose a set of rules:

1. Any named character must have defined (though not necessarily written) motivations and personality
2. That defined motivation cannot be sexual in nature
3. Avoid visual descriptions unless they are strictly necessary.
4. Characters should grow and change.
5. Conflict is key.
6. Conflict must be resolved
7. I like happy endings, so everything works out in the end.

There are probably a few more, but I haven't bothered formalizing them.

ChasingAnna said:

2. That defined motivation cannot be sexual in nature

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Why? Did you not realize this is an erotica story site?

You lost me on the last two also. I think you limit yourself in ways that fiction writing doesn't limit writers.

I'm continually amazed at seeing posters here try to limit rather than expand fiction in offering up how-to-write advice.

AfterDusk said:

I wasn't necessarily talking about word count either, but more percentages; for example, your In the Hallway story has a substantial amount of build up. It isn't just fucking right from the start, but there's a bit of plot and back story to it; yes, removing the actual sex scene would lessen the overall greatness of the story but to me, at least, that story wasn't about out right sex but more the chase, the pushing of the character's comfort zones, etc. While the entire story has an erotic tone to it and climaxes at the actual fucking bit, I'd say maybe (?) it is about 80% about plot.

Does this make sense or am I just another crazy person rambling on?

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I think we may be in agreement but are using "sex" differently.

"Sex", to me, is not the act of intercourse and its description. It's whatever the erotic focus of the story is. In an exhibitionism story, it's somebody getting naked. In a BDSM story, it's somebody getting tied up or dominated. In my stories, "sex" understood in this way is the focus and object of the story, and everything else is meant to lead up to it, so without it the story doesn't mean anything. That to me is what an erotic story is.

KeithD said:

I'm continually amazed at seeing posters here try to limit rather than expand fiction in offering up how-to-write advice.

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ChasingAnna wasn't giving advice. She was describing her approach to writing stories that she hasn't yet published. Her list is understandable and entirely appropriate for this thread.

KeithD said:

Why? Did you not realize this is an erotica story site?

You lost me on the last two also. I think you limit yourself in ways that fiction writing doesn't limit writers.

I'm continually amazed at seeing posters here try to limit rather than expand fiction in offering up how-to-write advice.

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As for #2, main characters are going to have sex, sure. But if that's their primary defining trait, they are going to be paper thin and not terribly interesting characters.

#6 comes down to basic sorry telling for me. When you set up a conflict, have something actually happen. Show us the fall out.

#7 is explicitly personal preference.

NotWise said:

ChasingAnna wasn't giving advice. She was describing her approach to writing stories that she hasn't yet published. Her list is understandable and entirely appropriate for this thread.

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We (not just you and me, but a bunch of posters and me) continue to have a disconnect on that issue. Any time someone posts a "how they do it" on a discussion board they are trying to give guidance advice. We'll just have to disagree on that if you don't "get it."

And as a professional (and trained) writer and editor, I stick with my observation that there's a propensity on this discussion board to try to limit the writing of fiction rather than expand it, sending it into the new, fresh areas where the award winners are writing.

NotWise said:

ChasingAnna wasn't giving advice. She was describing her approach to writing stories that she hasn't yet published. Her list is understandable and entirely appropriate for this thread.

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All her points can be argued for, against, or sideways, as can points I list of my writing tricks and strategies. IMHO we authors set ourselves guidelines, ranges within which to write -- and those bounds likely vary with our intended effects. Different elements work into narrative arcs of tragedy, comedy, redemption, romance, stroker, farce, horror, etc. My story cookbook has many recipes but I still improvise a lot. Too many burnt messes must be tossed out. Sad.

KeithD said:

We (not just you and me, but a bunch of posters and me) continue to have a disconnect on that issue. Any time someone posts a "how they do it" on a discussion board they are trying to give guidance advice. We'll just have to disagree on that if you don't "get it."

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There's a fine line sometimes between stating and opinion and giving advice. You draw it differently than I do.

The thread is titled "Stories that appeal to women," and the OP asked for the opinions of women. ChasingAnna's opinion was more appropriate than input from either of us -- both of us being guys and all.

ChasingAnna said:

As for #2, main characters are going to have sex, sure. But if that's their primary defining trait, they are going to be paper thin and not terribly interesting characters.

#6 comes down to basic sorry telling for me. When you set up a conflict, have something actually happen. Show us the fall out.

#7 is explicitly personal preference.

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I'd disagree with #2...sure, some characters need to have a drive beyond sex but it is perfectly doable to have sex be their entire driving force. I've done it before successfully, others have done it before successfully, characters were interesting and encompassed an amount of depth beyond several others who had different motivations.

Of course, it goes without saying that it can also be done wrong. When it comes down to it, it is a matter of how it works with the actual plot and the author's writing style.

I'd agree with #6, conflict needs resolution, it is ingrained in us. However, that resolution doesn't need to be all unicorn, rainbows and warm fuzzies. It can be resolved with more conflict.

And #7...yes, I will admit, I want a happy ending, what girl doesn't? Does that mean that it is necessary for me to read a story? No. Farwalker and Deadgirl does not have a happy ending (in fact it doesn't really have sex either) but it has the ending the story needs and it is a very beautiful and well written tale.

NotWise said:

There's a fine line sometimes between stating and opinion and giving advice. You draw it differently than I do.

The thread is titled "Stories that appeal to women," and the OP asked for the opinions of women. ChasingAnna's opinion was more appropriate than input from either of us -- both of us being guys and all.

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I'd disagree with you on this one...I think that male author's opinions are just as valuable as female author's opinions. If he wanted to know how to appeal to strictly female readers, then, obviously, he should ask female readers (not authors). I think there is a large difference between someone who writes and reads and someone who just reads.

Frankly and I'm not sure I can put my finger on it but I don't look at the author's gender before I read but once I start; I can pretty much figure it out by their writing style. I'm more likely to enjoy stories written by men but don't really like stories written by men from the POV of the woman.

...and this is where KeithD makes the statement that we cannot truly know the gender of the writer because this is the internet and that he (or so he claims to be male ) has written successfully under a female pen name, etc. Yes, I know there isn't really an easy way to prove gender on a website. Take my words for what they are.

AfterDusk said:

If you're looking for things to avoid, as far as what irritates (me) a female reader, then here's a list:

• Chances are, in real life, your chick is not going to cum through sex. It takes work, just like real life and frankly I'm pretty sure if a woman is lucky to get one orgasm she'd call it a night and not push her luck.

• Please, for the love of all that is holy, if you write a story with a female virgin, look up where the hymen is located. I can't tell you how many stories I've read (by men AND women) where the author has no clue what this actually is.

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I'm in accord with these two, at least.