koalabear
~Armed and Fuzzy~
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i wasn't offering, i was saying to make mine a beer.
I don't make beer either.
That Pipeline
- Thread starter JohnnySavage
- Start date
I don't make beer either.
Wrong Element
Sentient Onion
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Is this a serious question? You're asking this on a board where dozens of people believe the obvious scientific fact of climate change is a socialist conspiracy?
I don't really have an opinion on the pipeline, but I agree with Perg that pretending there are no negative side effects to projects like this is pure myopia, unless you think people are opposing it just for the hell of it. And the belief that the earth will either never run out of petroleum or that it will never become prohibitively expensive to extract is sheer pie-in-the-sky.
koalabear
~Armed and Fuzzy~
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koalabear
~Armed and Fuzzy~
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JohnnySavage
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I'm not sure why Perg is slamming on US energy policy in this case. The issue isn't "to drill or not to drill", the US has no say in that, and it seems to be a done deal that the oil is going to be extracted.
The issue is where the oil goes to get to market, and the choice is: a US refinery or to be loaded on ships at Canadian ports. Given those choices I think it better that the oil hits the market here, rather than there.
The issue is where the oil goes to get to market, and the choice is: a US refinery or to be loaded on ships at Canadian ports. Given those choices I think it better that the oil hits the market here, rather than there.
geronimo_appleby
always on the move
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I don't make beer either.
they serve beer in atlanta though, eh?
please say it's so.
Peregrinator
Hooded On A Hill
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I don't.
Or what's left over after the average bunch of assholes goes "hunting."
Peregrinator
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The point is that by framing the discussion the way you outline, we avoid asking the larger and more important question. It's like asking whether the brand of cigarettes you smoke is the best choice, rather than asking whether Chantix or Nicorette might be a better alternative.
It's easy to get distracted by discussions like this. The truth is the whole idea of drilling and burning is idiotic, so far from wise that it beggars belief that we're still even talking about it.
koalabear
~Armed and Fuzzy~
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MeeMie
No Spam Here
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Because IT IS political.
Obama has been delaying the issue until after his re-election bid next year for political reasons.
Labor unions that usually support Democrats back the pipeline project, while environmentalists who are also allied with the political left oppose it.
GOP Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said, "The pipeline shouldn't be thought of as controversial. The labor unions like it. Many Democrats want it. It strengthens our national security by decreasing amount of oil we get from unfriendly countries. And it wouldn't cost the tax payers a dime."
JohnnySavage
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But you should be asking that question in Canada, not with respect to building a pipeline in the US to transport oil that has already been extracted.
Peregrinator
Hooded On A Hill
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Why can't I ask it on a forum with members all over the world?
garbage can
North by Northeast
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You're thinking with your emotions instead of your brain.
New technology has a way of solving old problems.
Maybe it's a nuclear powered car.
Peregrinator
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Ah, yes, the great Randian myth beloved of the wingfruit.
That island of petroleum-product trash in the Pacific will just disappear, right?
JohnnySavage
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You certainly can ask it, but the question is irrelevant because the oil can't be put back in the ground. The issue is what to do with it.
Peregrinator
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That's a kind of fatalism in which I don't choose to engage.
It would go on the World market to the highest paying purchaser if the pipeline went as planned.
Just think of the jobs created to fix the leaks like the Trans Alaska pipeline.
Nice target map in case of a W.W.
trysail
Catch Me Who Can
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W.W. hell.
In 20 minutes I can take you to an isolated, unguarded, exposed ( partially by erosion and partially by a stream crossing ) section of 30" trunk pipeline carrying 20% of the Northeast United States' natural gas supply.
It wouldn't take a great deal for someone with malevolent intent to give the U.S. ( particularly NYC and New England) a major economic hickey.
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garbage can
North by Northeast
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We're talking about the Keystone pipeline which I fully support.
Peregrinator
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And what do nuclear powered cars have to do with that, exactly?
I wonder how many pipelines like that are decomposing?
garbage can
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I was off topic.
trysail
Catch Me Who Can
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It isn't decomposing. It's an isolated section and the streambeds have eroded from repeated freshets.
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coastal-boy
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You can tweak the numbers however you want, but the bottom line is that less than 2% of the daily US oil requirement in barrels is projected to flow through this pipeline at max. Then comes the sad fact...it is tar oil and for the most part, unusable for refining into "high-quality petroleum" products because of the expense. So it will be used for producing low-quality petroleum products and will do so creating 45% more carbon dioxide.
Will the price of oil decrease? No.
Will this help us move to a more sustainable fuel? No.
Will it increase greenhouse gases? Yes.
Will it be an economic boom? No.
How many construction jobs in South Dakota were filled by South Dakotans when the first pipeline was built? Less than 5%? Could this be right? And those were low-paying? Really? Could this be true? Yes. Google is your friend.
Will the price of oil decrease? No.
Will this help us move to a more sustainable fuel? No.
Will it increase greenhouse gases? Yes.
Will it be an economic boom? No.
How many construction jobs in South Dakota were filled by South Dakotans when the first pipeline was built? Less than 5%? Could this be right? And those were low-paying? Really? Could this be true? Yes. Google is your friend.
