That Pipeline

[JohnnySavage]

I'm as big of a cheerleader as anyone for alternative fuels, but the simple fact is that we (humanity) are going to use oil until it's gone. Realistically, Canada isn't going to let that oil remain insitu.

 

[Peregrinator]

I'm as big of a cheerleader as anyone for alternative fuels, but the simple fact is that we (humanity) are going to use oil until it's gone. Realistically, Canada isn't going to let that oil remain insitu.

I agree. That's the unfortunate, dumbass-driven, selfish-thinking reality.

 

[JohnnySavage]

God gave us just enough oil to better the human condition. Something else will come along to take us to the next level.

 

[koalabear]

Only the very dumbest kind of asshole doesn't see the problem with thinking like this:

Get a job.

 

[Peregrinator]

God gave us just enough oil to better the human condition. Something else will come along to take us to the next level.

Define "god." Give three examples.

 

[koalabear]

Define "god." Give three examples.

Your gods, Oblamer, Pelosi and reid.

 

[thør]

I'm as big of a cheerleader as anyone for alternative fuels, but the simple fact is that we (humanity) are going to use oil until it's gone. Realistically, Canada isn't going to let that oil remain insitu.

Yesterday was the first time I've noticed that biodiesel was available in Anchorage (and I believe, only at a single station). I don't know if it's B5 or B100, but it's 3 cents a gallon more than regular winter diesel.

 

[Peregrinator]

Yesterday was the first time I've noticed that biodiesel was available in Anchorage (and I believe, only at a single station). I don't know if it's B5 or B100, but it's 3 cents a gallon more than regular winter diesel.

If you buy it, your family will starve.



Right?

 

[koalabear]

If you buy it, your family will starve.



Right?

Depends on your income level. Bio-fuels suck on mileage.

 

[thør]

If you buy it, your family will starve.



Right?

It's at an inconvenient location. But they can stand to lose a pound or two.





I need to research the actual fuel that they are selling before I buy it. Prolly fine in summer, but in winter, I don't want any cold temperature fuel problems with my vehicle when I'm substantially north of Anchorage. If they sell the same stuff in FBX and there's no problem with gelling or waxing, I will buy the stuff. Canola runs smoother than ULSD.

 

[thør]

Depends on your income level. Bio-fuels suck on mileage.

So does winter diesel.......

 

[trysail]

The indiputable fact of the matter is that burning food for energy drives up the cost of food. If you happen to be one of the billion and a half humans eeking out a precarious living, the oh-so-sanctimonious world savers whose fondest wish is to drive up the cost of fuels are apparently trying to kill you. Ditto for the billions who cook with wood fires and the percentage who suffer premature death as a result of smoke inhalation.


The Energy Content of a Bushel of Corn ( maize )

1 Barrel of Petroleum= 5,800,000 BTUs
1 Bushel of Corn ~= 300,000 BTUs (approximate)
0.0517 BTU content of 1 Bushel of Corn ( Maize ) relative to 1 Barrel of Petroleum

@ $40.00/Barrel of Petroleum			
=$2.07— BTU Value/Bushel of Corn ( Maize )			
					
					
@$100.00/Barrel of Petroleum			
=$5.17—	BTU Value/Bushel of Corn ( Maize )			
					
					
@$95.64/Barrel of Petroleum			
=$4.95—	BTU Value/Bushel of Corn ( Maize )

 

[coastal-boy]

But if Canada is going to build it as depicted in Trysails picture above, why would it be better there, than here? Seemingly, the environment in the PNW is much more sensitive than the environment in the Gulf where there are already a lot of refineries.

Speaking of it's terminus I mean.

The problem with the Canadian pipeline as I hear it is that it crosses tribal territory and no one asked them. Then when they started building it, they said not across our ground.

 

[Peregrinator]

It's at an inconvenient location. But they can stand to lose a pound or two.





I need to research the actual fuel that they are selling before I buy it. Prolly fine in summer, but in winter, I don't want any cold temperature fuel problems with my vehicle when I'm substantially north of Anchorage. If they sell the same stuff in FBX and there's no problem with gelling or waxing, I will buy the stuff. Canola runs smoother than ULSD.

Heh.

We used b99 all winter in PDX and had no trouble down to ~20F, which is as cold as it ever gets there. I've heard it's not so great in places like AK. But running it all summer will still substantially decrease your carbon footprint.

You probably already know this, but after a week or so, change your fuel filter. We had the Golf faint on us unexpectedly. Bio is such a great solvent that it dissolves all the crud that's in the fuel lines and clogs the filter.

 

[Peregrinator]

The indiputable fact of the matter is that burning food for energy drives up the cost of food. If you happen to be one of the billion and a half humans eeking out a precarious living, the oh-so-sanctimonious world savers whose fondest wish is to drive up the cost of fuels are apparently trying to kill you. Ditto for the billions who cook with wood fires and the percentage who suffer premature death as a result of smoke inhalation.


The Energy Content of a Bushel of Corn ( maize )

1 Barrel of Petroleum= 5,800,000 BTUs
1 Bushel of Corn ~= 300,000 BTUs (approximate)
0.0517 BTU content of 1 Bushel of Corn ( Maize ) relative to 1 Barrel of Petroleum

@ $40.00/Barrel of Petroleum			
=$2.07— BTU Value/Bushel of Corn ( Maize )			
					
					
@$100.00/Barrel of Petroleum			
=$5.17—	BTU Value/Bushel of Corn ( Maize )			
					
					
@$95.64/Barrel of Petroleum			
=$4.95—	BTU Value/Bushel of Corn ( Maize )

The problem with the Canadian pipeline as I hear it is that it crosses tribal territory and no one asked them. Then when they started building it, they said not across our ground.

Sanctimonious indeed. Fuck the brown people. Americans are starving!

 

[trysail]

A competent petroleum engineer will tell you that we won't wake up one morning and suddenly discover that all the petroleum is gone. It doesn't work that way.

Rising prices create supplies, conservation, substitutes, innovation and alternatives.

The world proved reserves estimate of ~ 1.383 trillion barrels of petroleum includes ~143.1 billion barrels of Canadian oil sands and ~94.168 billion barrels of Venezuelan heavy oil from the Orinoco Oil Belt. Production of ~80 million barrels per day equates to ~29.2 billion barrels per year. Daily world production of ~82.1 million barrels equals ~29.96 billion barrels per year. As seen in the chart, the current derived reserve/production ratio of 46.2 years has grown over the past thirty years from under 30 years in 1980.​

Souce: BP Statistical Review of World Energy 2011
​

 

[thør]

Heh.

We used b99 all winter in PDX and had no trouble down to ~20F, which is as cold as it ever gets there. I've heard it's not so great in places like AK. But running it all summer will still substantially decrease your carbon footprint.

You probably already know this, but after a week or so, change your fuel filter. We had the Golf faint on us unexpectedly. Bio is such a great solvent that it dissolves all the crud that's in the fuel lines and clogs the filter.

Temps at the cabin (or on the road to the cabin) can drop below -30°F. I have been in the situation (twice) where we needed to add gasoline to the diesel to drop the gell point so it would flow through the filter. I don't want to go there again.

 

[JohnnySavage]

A competent petroleum engineer will tell you that we won't wake up one morning and suddenly discover that all the petroleum is gone. It doesn't work that way.

Rising prices create supplies, conservation, substitutes, innovation and alternatives.

The world proved reserves estimate of ~ 1.383 trillion barrels of petroleum includes ~143.1 billion barrels of Canadian oil sands and ~94.168 billion barrels of Venezuelan heavy oil from the Orinoco Oil Belt. Production of ~80 million barrels per day equates to ~29.2 billion barrels per year. Daily world production of ~82.1 million barrels equals ~29.96 billion barrels per year. As seen in the chart, the current derived reserve/production ratio of 46.2 years has grown over the past thirty years from under 30 years in 1980.​

46.2 years IS essentially over night when we are talking about re-tooling a global economy based on oil. Further, the 46.2 years is most likely based on current consumption. As the LDC's (and China) develop, the rate of consumption will go up. Even further, as oil becomes scarce toward the middle of the century, costs will skyrocket and alternative fuels will become economically viable - assuming we have developed those products in today's dollars.

 

[coastal-boy]

Depends on your income level. Bio-fuels suck on mileage.

the mileage associated with a fuel depends on the energy content associated with the fuel and the efficiency of the engine running it. Volumetrically, Biodiesel has the same energy unit (if not slightly better) than gasoline. Specific energy density units, it is slightly less. I can show you algal-based biofuels that runs circles around gasoline (and biodiesel). But you won't believe this so carry on with your ranting.

 

[trysail]

46.2 years IS essentially over night when we are talking about re-tooling a global economy based on oil. Further, the 46.2 years is most likely based on current consumption. As the LDC's (and China) develop, the rate of consumption will go up. Even further, as oil becomes scarce toward the middle of the century, costs will skyrocket and alternative fuels will become economically viable - assuming we have developed those products in today's dollars.

They keep finding more of the stuff. The history of "proved reserves" is that they tend to keep growing. Petroleum engineers are conservative folk. Recovery factors grow as technology is applied. Look at shale natural gas and shale petroleum; a decade ago, they weren't considered "proved reserves."


There's a whole lot of hydrocarbons out there. GTL is on the cusp of widespread adoption.

The reason the world is round is because it's full of [natural] gas.

-Mobil geologist response to Trysail in ~1988 when asked if the then current oversupply of natural gas would persist.​

Q: How much petroleum does the world consume in a year?

A: A little more than one cubic mile.

It is a fine line we tred between being widely understood and technically correct.

When one talks about phase changes and the heat released or absorbed when they occur, most people's eyes glaze over and they tune out. If one says that it takes less heat to boil alcohol than water, they seem to get it.

I don't really know how to deal with the fact that even most "educated" people don't have a solid grounding in math, chemistry and physics. A person can get a Ph.D. today and never even be exposed to the term "heat of vaporization," much less understand the implication of it in practical terms.

Hell, most people don't even have a feel for orders of magnitude - they bandy around millions, billions and trillions like they are about the same. They are just generic "big numbers" in most minds.

The sad result of this lack of well-rounded education among so-called educated people is they (and the people who follow them) are vulnerable to superstition based on emotion.

I'm amazed about how little the average person knows about the "size" of things....I've asked smart people to guess the approximate size of the container that could hold all of the humans in the world, in cubic miles. The guess is always hundreds or thousands of cubic miles....The answer is a little more than a tenth of a cubic mile.

The volume of petroleum produced each year is a little more than a cubic mile.

86,350,000.................Barrels/Day ( 2010 world consumption )
365..............................Days/Year
31,517,750,000...........Barrels/Year
1,323,745,500,000.......Gallons...............@42 Gallons/Barrel
305,785,210,500,000....Cubic Inches.......@1 Gallon=231 Cubic Inches
6,554,038,291...............Cubic Yards.........@1 Cubic Yard=46,656 Cubic Inches
1.20..............................Cubic Miles.........@1 Cubic Mile=5,451,776,000 Cubic Yards

 

[unregistered]

 

[JohnnySavage]

I don't go to parties

 

[Peregrinator]

Temps at the cabin (or on the road to the cabin) can drop below -30°F. I have been in the situation (twice) where we needed to add gasoline to the diesel to drop the gell point so it would flow through the filter. I don't want to go there again.

Yeah, no, I can imagine. Building a fire under the oil pan and shit. Fuggedaboutit.

 

[Karen Kraft]

What is the argument against it?
Why does it go all the way to the Gulf?
Why doesn't Canada build a refinery nearer the source?
Why can't it go to Illinois where there is already excess refining capacity?

Why is this night different from all other nights?

 

[nyxie]

The real reason Obaham is waiting the year out to allow the pipe line is because he has vested interests in Brizillian Oil companies.

Duh, Money....

-rolls eye's-