Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
I love me a shaggy dog story....
*happy sigh*
*happy sigh*
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So anotherwords, this dude posts bragging about how he did this "total Vanilla Conversion", without explaining any details, and then when we point out that without details, Vanilla Conversion can be considered a Bad Thing, suddenly he doesn't want to post those details? Huh. Kinda figured.
Step up to the plate.
Speak your piece.
Ignore the naysayers and pay attention to the people who want to hear your story.
First of all, a statement of fact is not bragging, particularly in the absence of any outlandish claims.
Your words "total Vanilla Coversion" in quotation marks suggest the words were mine...they were not...they are Yours.
You used words to make what I said sound more definititive ("total" versus "pretty much complete")...so the suggestion of bragging and the implication of bullshit is actually Yours. That is, you miss marie are the bullshitter in this exchange, not me.
I think your suggestion that you speak for the group in assuming any statement without details is or can be a "Bad Thing"...is, like your word twist on "total"...just more bullshit. Take your anger elsewhere; it has no effect on me...though I do reserve the right to kick you around this forum like a ragdoll if I feel like it.
I'm neither a masochist nor an idiot, so no, I'm not interested in discussing the details of something quite lovely with a group of angry posters.
If/when you find yourself wondering why the amount of traffic in the BDSM Forum has reduced itself to a trickle of its former size, even though more people than ever are interested in BDSM...maybe you should look at the way you treat people outside your core circle here.
It's really ugly of you and quite the opposite of the way real BDSM people behave towards each other in discussion.
First of all, a statement of fact is not bragging, particularly in the absence of any outlandish claims.
Your words "total Vanilla Coversion" in quotation marks suggest the words were mine...they were not...they are Yours.
You used words to make what I said sound more definititive ("total" versus "pretty much complete")...so the suggestion of bragging and the implication of bullshit is actually Yours. That is, you miss marie are the bullshitter in this exchange, not me.
I think your suggestion that you speak for the group in assuming any statement without details is or can be a "Bad Thing"...is, like your word twist on "total"...just more bullshit. Take your anger elsewhere; it has no effect on me...though I do reserve the right to kick you around this forum like a ragdoll if I feel like it.
I'm neither a masochist nor an idiot, so no, I'm not interested in discussing the details of something quite lovely with a group of angry posters.
If/when you find yourself wondering why the amount of traffic in the BDSM Forum has reduced itself to a trickle of its former size, even though more people than ever are interested in BDSM...maybe you should look at the way you treat people outside your core circle here.
It's really ugly of you and quite the opposite of the way real BDSM people behave towards each other in discussion.
BUT, if anyone else would like to chime in on their experience introducing vanillas to BDSM. Please share. Thanks!
Hey now!! I didn't mention his damn stupid "real BDSM people" comment, because I STILL want to hear his damn story.
It was hard not to do it, and Netz went and did it anyway.
Also, I meet a lot of D/s couples where....you can tell that the guy is rising to the occasion to meet the needs
of the female sub. You can tell that her needs are the master of the relationship, no matter what the participants are saying. You can tell that if I pulled this guy aside and said "if I could wave a wand and just turn her into a mild bring me a beer and blow me kind of submissive would you want me to?" The answer would be "please." They have a tired vibe. I'd say these are converted vanillas, as close to that as I can fathom.
Those people are the ones that need to read my rant. Hopefully before they get all stuck in these roles, expecting their partners to magically read their intentions....
Also, I meet a lot of D/s couples where....you can tell that the guy is rising to the occasion to meet the needs of the female sub. You can tell that her needs are the master of the relationship, no matter what the participants are saying. You can tell that if I pulled this guy aside and said "if I could wave a wand and just turn her into a mild bring me a beer and blow me kind of submissive would you want me to?" The answer would be "please." They have a tired vibe. I'd say these are converted vanillas, as close to that as I can fathom.
Those people are the ones that need to read my rant. Hopefully before they get all stuck in these roles, expecting their partners to magically read their intentions.
But yeah, I have a submissive friend who is on the way out of her marriage, although she's still trying real hard to pretend it's not so.
She really truly needs to have a master. It's just not happening with him. And they tried really hard-- went to a couple of Butchmans weeks even, trying to teach him how to be dominant-- that shit isn't cheap.
I think this years' event did, actually. They have some tough times ahead, working it out.Noooo it's not. And Butchman's you'd think would put the light bulb over that guy's head, but people are going to try everything and try everything twice for relationships.
But obviously Michelangelo was full of shit when he said that.
My unpopular position is that everyone (who is kinky) is converted at one point or another, but nothing is concrete anyway. It's more akin to drug addiction than anything like sexual orientation, which cannot be "converted". However, you can "convert" a clean person into a crackhead and they may very well come clean again at some point. Because like harder drugs, harder sex is more intense on a neurological level (adrenaline, dopamine, etc), therefor more pleasurable, more desirable. So they keep pursuing it, the lesser (vanilla) becomes more unfulfilling.
Thanks for the warm welcome; back to the topic at hand.
So-called lifestylers often take the position that there is no such thing as a "vanilla conversion".
The response is either the person already was kinky but repressed or unaware.
Or there has actually been no "conversion" and the the person is really just dallying, a tourist who read the 50 Shades trilogy or watched The Secretary.
Of course the trouble with those knee jerk reactions is they do the very thing a BDSM Lifestyler rails against...they are labels, judgements, preconceived notions, etc.
I'bve always thought lifestyler women dislike coverted vanilla newby subs partly out of a form of competitive jealousy, just as old Doms look down their noses at noob Doms.
As if there's a BDSM Union and you need a certain number of Hours in before you can pass Probation.
Silly stuff, really.
Another thing that disgusts me with this whole meme is this notion that vanilla people do not maintain the fundamental right to be left the fuck alone to enjoy whatever cupcake of a sex life makes them happy. Because we're what - better?
Well, at least you're aware that your position is unpopular coz I disagree.
Maybe for *some* people kink might be like a drug addiction, but what about those (like myself) that discovered our kinky penchants during childhood? As far as I'm aware, rolling myself up in a rug and imagining I couldn't get free didn't feel sexual at the time, it just felt good, right and comforting. It most probably didn't stimulate the production of adrenaline, dopamine etc., therefore your theory that the sole reason we are kinky is because we need the thrill seems redundant to me.
I persue kink coz it gets me off. I NEED it to get off. I can have vanilla sex but I've got to fantasise about something kinky to actually orgasm. I have always been this way, since the first time I masturbated (which was long before I had sex with another person, let alone kinky sex).
My position is that for *some* people, like myself, kink is a fundamental part of who they are and it is painfully concrete. There is no conversion, we were born this way and will die this way. I have tried not to be kinky - tried so really, really, really hard to deny this part of myself and it almost distroyed my relationship. Apparently for me denying my kink renders my sexual indentity defunct and I am unable to be aroused at all.
But for other people, like my partner, kink is a fun activity we do together. He doesn't fantasise about it or need it to get off, but nonetheless really enjoys what we do. Before being with me he had never done anything kinky or even thought about trying anything kinky. When I suggested we try some things he wasn't so enthused or excited but gave it a go and enjoyed himself.
Did I convert him? No. He will probably never need kink like I do or have it form part of his identity, but that's ok. Fuck, it's more than ok. Who the fuck I am to go round telling people who they should be and what they should feel?
If anything, people might convert themselves. Just like with religion. Sure you can baptise someone, make them go to church, force them to pray, but can you MAKE them BELIEVE? Nah, only the individual can make that happen and only the individual will know when it has happened.
So to the OP: maybe you introduced someone to the idea of submission and helped them explore it. But you sure as hell didn't reach inside them and flip a submissive switch. If that happened she did it herself and that has very little to do with you at all.
Yes. Relationship ending impasse. Whether I was top/bottom/voyeur - it was completely outside of his makeup and his abilities and it was deeply disturbing to him in any format that actually turned me on. Basically take the worst emotional suckitude of sexual incompatibility where people otherwise truly DO love one another, and pile it on. We were both early 20's - so the whole idea that it's not that important was untrue. It WAS that important.
Other experience that strikes me - myriad male clients whose "wife is a domme, but...." The but is either "but only up to a point" "but not in the way I fantasize about" but most commonly "but isn't as passionate about it / doesn't NEED it / is doing it for me and we both know it."
Also, I meet a lot of D/s couples where....you can tell that the guy is rising to the occasion to meet the needs
of the female sub. You can tell that her needs are the master of the relationship, no matter what the participants are saying. You can tell that if I pulled this guy aside and said "if I could wave a wand and just turn her into a mild bring me a beer and blow me kind of submissive would you want me to?" The answer would be "please." They have a tired vibe. I'd say these are converted vanillas, as close to that as I can fathom.
These conversion experiments can be rather tricky. Fortunately I found the online formula through a Google search:
V/1 X (potential submissive’s age) –BDSM = M/1 X (potential master’s claimed age + 10) + d/s/TPE
For anyone claiming this has worked for them, please show your work. At least that way you can receive partial credit.
OMG you win the internets.Warning: that formula is only good for US units. I tried using it in metric and accidentally converted my partner to Scientology instead :-/
Warning: that formula is only good for US units. I tried using it in metric and accidentally converted my partner to Scientology instead :-/