Understand the wife's sex drive

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First, she should see a doctor and rule out medical issues. If her hormones are fine, it’s psychological and therapy may help. Asexuality is real but not that common.

The truth is she’s links ‘touched out’ from kids and exhausted.

If she is not interested in repairing this aspect, it’s unfortunate but you could ask about an open marriage.

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Might there be some aspects of your life together, some aspects of your pattern of behaviour, which have eroded her sexual attraction to you?

There are days when going back to work would be a welcome break from wrangling our small children. Love them endlessly of course, but the mental and physical exhaustion is all-consuming at times. Don’t think that work and volunteer are her outlets for excess energy. They may be her only sanctioned routes of release and escape right now.

I suspect more issues on her end. Marriages often suffer during those intense years of raising small kids. I feel alone quite a lot myself. If I didn’t have high drive, I could see myself struggling to be sexual with my husband. It’s hard when you feel pulled in all directions by so many needs and alienated and missing the man who once cherished you.

I’m clearly inserting too much of my marriage issues into yours. But take this away from it: Analyze unforgivingly how your behavior towards her has changed. I guarantee that sex didn’t just dry up in her mind. Little by little you’ve both slipped away from each other. Now you’re paying attention to it because it affects an aspect of life that you highly prize. On her end, there could be a wife working a job and volunteering her time to find a moment’s peace and to stave off the sad longing for the man she used to know.

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I am going to break up your post into four sections as there are four examples and indications of where you may be not helping the situation.

Speedylinks2015 said:

I got frustrated when she wanted "her" money because I've never denied her something because of money, except maybe for a huge vacation.

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Your words "I got frustrated" and that is a flag right there. Your frustrations could imply impositions. Do you like someone trying to influence how you think?

Speedylinks2015 said:

If there was something big that needed to happen, we worked it out.

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Did "we" work it out or did you, based on the control you had over the finances?

Speedylinks2015 said:

I've always desired her and she will admit that she knows that. She won't say that she desires me either.

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In you reaching out to her how often do you push the "but I desire you..." as a way to bridge the divide? If so that can also come across as imposing, because if you do is she then expected to match you in response? If she does not, is it possible she is picking up more indications of frustration from you?

Speedylinks2015 said:

She is always up for cuddling though. I asked her what the difference was and she said with cuddling there are no expectations......

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I will be blunt "I asked her what the difference was" would be about the worst possible statement/question you could say. I guarantee she would have taken it as a statement and not a question. Another example of you imposing your frustrations on her. You knew the answer to that statement before you made it. Certainly would not have made your wife feel great upon hearing it.

Think carefully through what I have written. You can either take affront for my suggestion of putting it on your shoulders or you could look very closely how your attitudes may be perceived as controlling and how this may impact on your wife's attraction toward you.

You may believe you are the perfect husband, provider and protector of the family but if that comes at a cost of your wife feeling her own life choices are being imposed upon by your desire for control then your relationship is going to take a dive.

I am not implying you are a bad person or that your heart is not genuine, but it is possible in order to help your situation you may need to step back. Encourage and support your wife in her choices such as going back to work. Let her know she is most definitely an equal part of the relationship and family decision process. Let her know you will respect her wishes and desires simply because they are hers to have and not to be shaped by your personal standards, goals or frustrations.

How often do you have the house spotless, the kids organised, meal ready and a glass of wine waiting for your wife when she gets home from work? This without any expectation than you are providing her a space to relax and do whatever she chooses. Maybe it would provide her a chance to read a book, watch a tv show uninterrupted, go to bed early. It really does not matter what she may choose for her own time, what matters is that you have thought enough of her to offer that opportunity.

How often have you organised a romantic night? The kids off with the grandparents, the house spotless and romantic setting in place, go out for a meal, show, go dancing - somewhere you know will bring laughter and smiles to her face. Not with the expectation that she will put out for you but purely displaying how much you love her.

Ask her from time to time "what can I do to make your life better today?". She will need to feel comfortable you are not negotiating for anything, you just want to gift joy toward her.

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(silly comment removed, sorry)

Speedylinks2015 said:

I'll admit that this is the hardest one for me. I feel I can only give so much before you're either exhausted or just give up because you see nothing in return. I never even get something as small as a note saying "thanks for all that you do".

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continuing the discussion

I have a sense that while you say "but we are seeing a sex therapist/counsellor" you are struggling with the suggestions offered? One reason I make that statement is that you have turned to an online forum to seek answers beyond a highly trained person in the area. For the country I live in I am aware that to be a sex therapist requires solid qualifications in the general counselling area as well. The sex therapy is like a specialist qualification above and beyond counselling qualifications, which can be as extensive or more in study and time to acquire. Point being most sex therapists are highly trained in relationship counselling. By asking your questions here may indicate you are feeling you are making no headway with the therapist. Why?

From the brief insight through a few posts I think it fantastic that you are seeing a sex therapist. When I have responded to similar posts as you have written that would often be my very first suggestion. I am an observant person offering an opinion, but I would never consider myself to have the breadth of knowledge and skills someone who has taken six years or a lot more to train in the area of counselling specialising in sex therapy. You should wholeheartedly trust the therapist. Give it a go, what have you got to lose, your marriage, your family and perhaps your children witness the breakdown of your relationship? Children sometimes can be left with emotional and mental life time scars for witnessing the deterioration of parents' relationship if the breakup is handled poorly. It is that important, your willingness to actually just listen can have a tremendous impact on the lives of many, your family.

If you are going to the therapy sessions with "I want sex and she needs convincing to want it and like it so I can have it" you will be divorced in no time. If you feel your pride is at stake every time a suggestion is made by the therapist on how you may be contributing to the problem then you will be divorced in no time.

You appear to be genuinely reaching out so I will offer more of my untrained opinion on some of your responses that may give you some understanding why I wrote the above paragraphs.

Speedylinks2015 said:

it was a pride thing to me that I was able to support my family of 5 on my salary

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Have you ever thought that being looked after/taken care of may eventually feel demeaning for your wife? Yup - having children will probably be the most rewarding, yet exhausting and frustrating time of your whole life. If you felt stressed during this time of juggling finances, lack of sleep, balancing the load of family responsibilities you just may need to give consideration to the fact your wife was on the front line of child birth, feeding, nappies, fevers, snotty noses, bumps and bruises 24 hours a day, with someone perhaps placing their values on how well she was attending to that and all the while placing her own life, dreams and aspirations on hold. Every financial decision had to be vetted through your "what is best for the family" control.

Maybe your wife is silently screaming "I am exhausted, I am tired of this responsibility, I want a life again, I want control over my destiny, I want "me" back again".

Try to imagine "oh, he wants sex again and he just does not get it that it is the farthest thing from my mind" happening over and over and over again. If your wife is indeed screaming "I want a life again" she may have no control over her lack of interest or desire for sex but she does have control over saying "I don't want it, I don't enjoy it, I would be content never to have it again" and the more you push the more you hear it. Perhaps you should stop pushing and start listening. Really listen.

Speedylinks2015 said:

She also freely admitted that I was better with finances and let me have control of them

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Have you considered that was actually "I give up, you are just going to have your way anyway". Maybe she was just too exhausted to give a damn.

Speedylinks2015 said:

I've realized that her desire will never be as strong as mine.
I will also admit there are times that I let my frustration show. This is mainly because she was all over me when it came to having sex to get pregnant.
She has now used the words that "sex has no purpose now" and that she could probably go the rest of her life without sex.

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Put it this way - she is certainly standing up to you at the moment and displaying monumental strength. This is finally one situation she has control over and she is wielding it with all her might and obviously prepared to sacrifice possibly a marriage over the issue. She is telling you "You are not listening to me!".

Speedylinks2015 said:

I was trying to compare the two because she is always wanting to snuggle and pretty much lay on top of me in bed. I was trying to understand why touching her then was OK, but not in a sexual manner. Mind you, I've told her before that it does not always have to be the actual insertion of sex to mean something to me.

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You are pushing it again... and you risk losing the cuddles as well.

Speedylinks2015 said:

Me trying to control that was perceived as too "dad like" and therefore made me not attractive to her

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You so need to lay yourself totally open over this situation. Through the guidance of a therapy session I would suggest you ask your wife to open up on all the ways she finds you controlling. I have a feeling this is something that has occurred in many subtle ways over the years, especially since the children came along. Just be willing to listen, take everything on board and leave your pride well away from this. Don't criticise or argue against any comment or reply. Listen listen listen then muster up all your powers to understand why the comments are being made. Even if you feel something is unjust, try to imagine why your wife feels that way. Her feelings are very real to her. State that you want your wife's thoughts to flow freely and you are not going to respond unless directly asked to do so. Let the therapist and your wife know you are intent on just listening without any rebuttal and prove that to them. With a little bit of trust gained then maybe more will flow.

Speedylinks2015 said:

I work out of town so it is hard to do things for her during the week. I try to do as much as I can when I am home. She only does laundry during the week if she absolutely has to. I usually do that on the weekends,
I will wash and she folds them. There have been plenty of times I have come home to a sink overflowing with dishes, I know it's been a long week so I just load the dishwasher and then wash what needs it by hand.

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You talk of these things as if they are negotiating terms. Just get stuck in and do them. If you are working out of town for the week and your wife has employment now as well - do the math - she is doing by far the majority of hands on with the kids and working on top of that - ha and don't even contemplate "well she does not have to work", that is her sanity. Regardless of actual $ amount income, right now she is contributing far more to your family than you are. Respect that and don't let your pride get in the way of acknowledging that fact. She is actually doing way more than you.

So now that household income is not a stress factor as it was, maybe you could consider hiring a house keeper for a number of hours per week. This could ease the situation immensely. After all the years your wife has put in on parenting, especially since you work away from home during the week she probably deserves it.

So now that household income is not a stress factor as it was, maybe you could consider getting a job closer to home where you come home every night. "Oh, but the money" is probably killing your marriage. When your wife and mother of your children needs you the most you are simply not there.

Curious, did your own mother have a career over and above being a mother and looking after home life? Are you imposing values that are not of your time of now being a parent, husband?

Speedylinks2015 said:

I'll admit that this is the hardest one for me. I feel I can only give so much before you're either exhausted or just give up because you see nothing in return. I never even get something as small as a note saying "thanks for all that you do".

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Ah - right now you are exhausted because your approach is just not working. You have expressed your desire for her to come around to your terms and jolly well like it while she is attending to it. Say goodbye to your marriage and watch the disintegration of your family beyond what has already happened.

How does "thanks for all that you do" really stack up to what your wife actually does? Maybe your wife could work away from home all week and you stay and look after the kids while trying to maintain a life and sanity for yourself as well.

Oh, and remember the best sex is about giving and how it is received. Anything else may as well be called masturbation even if it involves another person. To be very good at giving, you have to be very good at listening.

From what I have read of your posts on this I believe you need to be willing to throw all your ideas of what a relationship should be out the window and start on a totally new and learning approach. Tell your wife and counsellor you are willing to do this, be strong and a man enough to ask for guidance and listen listen listen then prove to both of them in actions. What have you got to lose...?

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I was in the company of friends recently, their marriage fell apart 25 years ago while their children were very young. To this day he is heartbroken. She made the following comment to him "I'll tell you why our marriage fell apart, you just didn't see me. I was standing before your very eyes and you just did not see me".

Now he, similar to you, had been working two jobs ticking off all the boxes of what he thought correct as a provider and a husband. The extra employment hours provided an income for the house ownership, renovations, and the needs of a growing family. He was devoted to his wife and his children yet she said after all these years (and probably many times leading up to) "you just did not see me, who I was".

I was saddened on witnessing this exchange as I immediately thought how a lack of simple communication was still playing out over 25 years later.

She claimed to have expressed herself and that he did not listen. He responded "I thought I was doing the right thing, I was so busy doing that I didn't see".

Speedylinks2015, to "understand the wife's sex drive" you both need to learn how to communicate again or even start in way both of you have never tried before. Trust your counsellor and listen with the view to understand not to defend and accuse.

Having children can change a woman's hormones in a big, BIG way. I have lots of friends who are in sexless, or near sexless marriages and feel entirely guilty/responsible for it.

I have other friends who have had kids who are secret sluts (like me) and others who totally cheat on their husbands because their libidos have gone in the other direction.

Simon's question is valid. But so are many of the other responses you've received so far. Marriage, sex and children is a very complicated soup. Seeking professional advice is a good idea, but, my two cents from talking with many who have gone that route (more women than men in my experience so please take that into consideration) is that there is no built-in incentive for therapists to help you get well.

Now, in my experience, most therapists I've worked with in my life have been motivated by the desire to help and heal, but I have definitely encountered and heard of many situations where the therapist(s) can and are part of the ongoing problem.

imho it all boils down to communication. What do you want? What does she want? Where do those wants intersect? The greatest myth out there is that men are hornier than women (after 30 at least lol). Talk with her, not to her and maybe she'll talk with you too.

If she truly is like many women and has sort of gone asexual after having children, talk with her about your needs, ask if there are any fantasies she might like to explore (don't expect an answer to that one right away - it might take a month or even three!) and if there are, offer to help her explore them even if you're shocked by them. Chances are, your support will mean more to her than actually going thru with some of them.

Anyway, good luck and best wishes and remember to keep your lines of communication open. Do NOT shut down because you think that she has!

Doctor "That's Why I'm Paid The Big Bucks" Liz

Speedylinks2015 said:

We have been married for 9 years, known each other for about 10. While we were dating and trying to get pregnant, sex was great. Often and with oral too. After our third was born, she drops the bomb on me that the only reason she had sex with me was to get pregnant. Now she said she gets nothing out of sex and will do it to keep me happy because she knows I enjoy it. I've tried explaining to her that I'm past just wanting to get off and want her to enjoy it as well.

Many times she can't tell I've cum until I tell her and it's more of a "hurry up and get done" feeling when things are going on. She won't let me go down on her and now considers BJs disgusting. She will let me get her off and I always make sure to do it at least once before I get off.

Is there anything I can do to turn things around?

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Let me get something out of the way. NightL is insinuating for you to shoulder this issue and that its YOU that needs to do this, YOU that needs to do that. No, fuck that, if the other person isn't putting their best foot forward, and are rather putting that foot away from you, creating distance? You need to have an open 1 on 1 with her and ask just what exactly shes looking for in her future. I say "her" future because it seems that whatever shes doing is dissociating herself from you (ie:the family) in a variety of ways (via earning her own money, volunteering, taking time to deliberately avoid being at home).

Also, you may need to come to terms with the idea that whatever this relationship between you and your wife has devolved into, may end out breaking the marriage (even post therapy).

You should never, under any circumstances, stay with someone if you aren't satisfied with the way things are going, this can cause future damage to your mental well-being. Why should you always have to accomodate someone else? This isn't a matter of "being a man" or how "you're expected to be strong" nonsense. It really grinds my gears when people try to give good advice while they corner you and force the captains hat and expect you to "deal with it".

NightL has also used shaming language, saying that she does more and you do less, which couldn't be further away from the truth. Being a mother is hard work, but so is keeping the fridge full of food, the power and water on, buying clothes when needed, paying for repairs if something breaks. I'd be curious to know what NightL's politics are, because I get an incredibly obvious impression that they have feminist values mixed in, but that's either here nor there. It's incredibly counter-productive arguing "who does more than the other", because both roles are integral to a successful family. Compromising is important, but not to the point where you sacrifice everything you believe in so that the other person can have their way. Don't let anyone discredit what you do for your family, this includes working your job.

Hiring a maid or caretaker is counter productive, especially to supplement it for free time that your wife spends wherever else. Building wealth to sustain 3 kids (if you plan on helping them develop a future in college or leave them something when you pass on, etc) is quite the math game as well. I also disagree with changing jobs so that you can spend more time with your wife, where will it end? Working closer? Working less? Taking more responsibilities at home, while she goes off and does her own thing? Lol its unbelievable, this kind of attitude is childlike. She needs to get a grip, she's not in her early 20's anymore, she's an adult and should conduct herself like one. If she wanted more of this "freedom" she probably shouldn't have had the inclination to have kids.

My opinion is to give her tough love, you tell her if she wants to spend all that time away and not work on the marriage/family? Give her the boot and take the matters to courts with either divorce/separation and work towards custody. If she craves power and freedom all that much, give her exactly what she wants. As destructive as it sounds, its not any better than living out the rest of your days unhappy, having sex with an uninterested partner who would rather be sightseeing in spain. There was a mention of staying together for the kids, but your personal life with your wife will trickle into your kids eventually, they aren't stupid, they will observe how you both interact and could adopt just as damaging of experiences as if you were to divorce, the potential means have the same potential ends.

You're obviously too deep to clean slate, you should probably prepare your financial situation for possible divorce/paying alimony, because once those paper are served (whether by you or her), your finances will be in for an absolutely rude awakening. Maybe move a bit of money into one of your parents ghost savings account or lock money into a private account for your children, you need to make sure you have a plan B (no pun intended *cough* pregnancy), something you can rely on if turmoil hits. Nobody is safe, the danger of losing your hard work is always a possibility, and the courts will show very little mercy, if at all.

My uncle experienced something similar to your situation, except his wife did travel alone after the kids grew up after 18, met someone in a foreign country and demanded a divorce, he lost a massive chunk from his pension, and 10 years of 1/2 his annual salary as alimony, his kids now treat him like a cash cow, pretty horrendous behavior.

I personally disagree with 80% of what NightL has typed, it is what it is. Sometimes even therapy cant save a damaged relationship, not all wounds heal properly.

I dont have a degree, but a hobby of mine is reading up on psychology and studying human behavior for fun. In no way should you accept ANY advice on here as professional or medically accurate, just a disclaimer ofc.

LizVegas79 said:

there is no built-in incentive for therapists to help you get well

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From the actual therapists I know who work in the area, and I know several, the path to that training was like a calling. They are exceedingly passionate about their profession and for their desire of continual study and gaining knowledge.

Their professional reputations are at stake, of course they have an incentive. I personally view them as relationship and romance junkies as they just wish the very best happiness and outcomes for their clients for which they have trained extensively to help assist.

I know these people through friendships and business association and they are most certainly not "lets string this one out for the next overseas holiday" - never ever!

I would hate for someone to dismiss the idea of seeking therapy based on a comment like that. I do strongly suggest that research into a good fit is as sound as it would be for finding a new mechanic or GP. Of course there has to be a willingness to change and learn otherwise it is pointless in attending. A therapist/client relationship that has worked for one couple maybe not the right fit for another. People get 2nd opinions on health matters all the time, if someone is not happy with a therapist/counsellor they should do some research and try another if they wish to continue on that path of assistance.

NightL said:

From the actual therapists I know who work in the area, and I know several, the path to that training was like a calling. They are exceedingly passionate about their profession and for their desire of continual study and gaining knowledge.

Their professional reputations are at stake, of course they have an incentive. I personally view them as relationship and romance junkies as they just wish the very best happiness and outcomes for their clients for which they have trained extensively to help assist.

I know these people through friendships and business association and they are most certainly not "lets string this one out for the next overseas holiday" - never ever!

I would hate for someone to dismiss the idea of seeking therapy based on a comment like that. I do strongly suggest that research into a good fit is as sound as it would be for finding a new mechanic or GP. Of course there has to be a willingness to change and learn otherwise it is pointless in attending. A therapist/client relationship that has worked for one couple maybe not the right fit for another. People get 2nd opinions on health matters all the time, if someone is not happy with a therapist/counsellor they should do some research and try another if they wish to continue on that path of assistance.

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Interesting, I could combat that with sex therapists I know personally that blatantly laugh about how stupid some people are that buy common sense as "therapy". Therapy is great to administer, when the person administering it is taking the job seriously. There are bad eggs in pretty much every job industry, psychology isn't void of them. Its similar to how lawyers could care less about solving your legal problems, money is the leading motivator.

ConfusedSheep said:

I'd be curious to know what NightL's politics are, because I get an incredibly obvious impression that they have feminist values mixed in

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so you are suggesting "Hey Bitch, pack the fucking fridge and get me a beer while you are at it. Now lay down while I fuck you and display some of that gratitude!"?

Wow, there is a recipe for domestic violence... especially when the "little lady" doesn't acquiesce.

NightL said:

From the actual therapists I know who work in the area, and I know several, the path to that training was like a calling. They are exceedingly passionate about their profession and for their desire of continual study and gaining knowledge.

Their professional reputations are at stake, of course they have an incentive. I personally view them as relationship and romance junkies as they just wish the very best happiness and outcomes for their clients for which they have trained extensively to help assist.

I know these people through friendships and business association and they are most certainly not "lets string this one out for the next overseas holiday" - never ever!

I would hate for someone to dismiss the idea of seeking therapy based on a comment like that. I do strongly suggest that research into a good fit is as sound as it would be for finding a new mechanic or GP. Of course there has to be a willingness to change and learn otherwise it is pointless in attending. A therapist/client relationship that has worked for one couple maybe not the right fit for another. People get 2nd opinions on health matters all the time, if someone is not happy with a therapist/counsellor they should do some research and try another if they wish to continue on that path of assistance.

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I've known (and had) a few therapists too. I agree with you to a point. Many are indeed passionate about their work and truly did get into therapy to help people rather than just make money.

Many, but not all.

That's all I was really saying. Seek advice and if that advice isn't working for you, seek other advice.

In my experience, advice is like boners, it comes in all shapes and sizes and is available pretty much everywhere you look.

What is often more important than the advice (or the boner) is the receptiveness to it (much like his wife's receptiveness to his boner).

Wow, I just sort of blew my own mind. Maybe I should become a therapist

(I was a bartender for seven years - that's kind of like getting PhD in psychology, right?)

NightL said:

so you are suggesting "Hey Bitch, pack the fucking fridge and get me a beer while you are at it. Now lay down while I fuck you and display some of that gratitude!"?

Wow, there is a recipe for domestic violence... especially when the "little lady" doesn't acquiesce.

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Ouh, I love me a good strawman.

It doesn't surprise me that you're disingenuous about representing what I suggested, especially since I typed it further along in my post, but forget facts or telling the truth, this is the internet after all.

She openly admitted to having sex just for kids, this means it was never about the mutual engagement of pleasure, but a means to her own end, and now that she has accomplished whatever she planned to do, the natural step was to just start doing w/e she wants.

People should take pride in knowing that following your advice is the perfect recipe for financial ruin, let us all hand over the buying power to the mothers in the home and see what happens

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Speedylinks2015 said:

We have been married for 9 years, known each other for about 10. While we were dating and trying to get pregnant, sex was great. Often and with oral too. After our third was born, she drops the bomb on me that the only reason she had sex with me was to get pregnant. Now she said she gets nothing out of sex and will do it to keep me happy because she knows I enjoy it. I've tried explaining to her that I'm past just wanting to get off and want her to enjoy it as well.

Many times she can't tell I've cum until I tell her and it's more of a "hurry up and get done" feeling when things are going on. She won't let me go down on her and now considers BJs disgusting. She will let me get her off and I always make sure to do it at least once before I get off.

Is there anything I can do to turn things around?

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Same here. Started a thread and there are a lot of people in the same boat and some interesting thoughts and ideas on it. Check it out
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1399669

Speedylinks2015 said:

why is it ok for her to just say this is how it is?

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Actually it is ok for her to say that and it is also ok for you to not like the situation.

If it has been a year seeing a therapist without acknowledgement that it is a situation she wants to change, or indeed sees an issue with, then you have to decide how long you can be patient.

To be honest, stay right away from "but she had twenty guys". This was not an issue when you fell in love with her and it only makes you appear to be using it as leverage now. Not cool. If she had 2 partners prior or twenty makes zero difference to the situation you are in now. The more you leverage issues that you deem negative (or she thinks you deem negative) the higher the barrier may go. Maybe the self esteem issues are still solidly in place. The debt cycle could be an indication of that. Perhaps she is feeling that she is letting you and the children down. Have you considered or are you having sessions individually? Maybe more productive for self esteem issues be addressed without you present, once acknowledged then joint strategies can be developed.

The question you should ask clearly is "are you willing to try?" State you want a yes or no answer. If "yes" then you have something to work with, if it is "no" you can ask why. You can ask "would you like to enjoy sex?" and "what do you want as an outcome?" I would suggest asking those questions in the presence of the therapist and perhaps talk them through on your own with the therapist first on how best they can be delivered. Ultimately you have to make decisions based on the answers to those questions.

Why did she originally agree to attend the counselling sessions? Ask her if she still feels the same about attending.

You can't force, coerce, or bribe for change on someone unwilling to try - don't go down that path. You do realise that if she is not feeling loved by you (not saying you don't) and only seeing pressure you are unlikely to get praise back.

In your words here you are displaying there is negativity being directed from both of you toward each other. Compromise implies reluctance to me, so you both need to and want to pull those negative barriers down completely before you can start to heal.

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Based on personal experience...

1. Prepare to cut your losses. Especially financially.

2. Watch your back; you may get sandbagged.