new song from Queen, Another Thread Bits the Dust

[MillieDynamite]

So the NC/R thread got closed, and I can't even see the remarks that caused it. In the words of Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along?"

I know I can get caustic, and often my humor can be mistaken for an attack, but can't we manage to debate sticky wickets without all the apparent hate? We are beginning to reflect the real world. That's not something we should aspire to do in a forum for and about writers, is it? Come on, Man, Woman, Transgders, Queers, Queens, and Kings. Let's do better!

 

[AchtungNight]

[nod] At the same time I won’t miss that thread.

 

[Bamagan]

[nod] At the same time I won’t miss that thread.

I was certainly reluctant to keep reading the new entries, which I interpreted as an objective win for the people advocating dubious consent as a thing.

 

[lovecraft68]

TBH, I saw nothing in that thread that was a personal attack, shaming anyone or any real insults. It was a serious conversation about a serious topic and people's use and motivations for using it in stories. In other words it was the exact type of conversation that should go on in a writing forum.

If you go back and read the post I made about the MC section, I added in yellow "If this post is deleted I'm right"

Now, I'm not claiming that's the reason, but its part of it. The site does not want discussions involving its content. It doesn't want its faux 'rules' pointed out, and lately every post being deleted is about 'kink shaming' and a lot of them involve discussions about LW, specifically BTB stories and the crowd of animals over there.

In the past this site has protected trolls like Scouries and Freddie, let them do disgusting things, drive people away. They allow the BTB crowd, they allow the true rape tales and the crowd it brings, and that is their business to do so, but they are sensitive about it because as they allow it they also want this image of having some type of ethics.

BTW, its not the mod deleting most of the posts lately. So that leaves one other person. They used to claim to be a free speech site, they claim 'heated discussions' are fine, but when the conversation goes down the road of "I thought they say this...and Why is this here, and why is allowed and..."

The don't emperor doesn't like to be shown as having no clothes. Lit now has the media version of free speech. Free until they don't like it.

Moving forward just keep the topics light and all threads sounding like they belong in the playground.

Real discussion is a thing of the past.

 

[lovecraft68]

I was certainly reluctant to keep reading the new entries, which I interpreted as an objective win for the people advocating dubious consent as a thing.

As long as they're advocating it in story form only, that's not an issue. The site has a category for it, so its within the rights of authors and readers here to enjoy it at the fantasy level. I don't think anyone here is saying its a good thing in the real world, just like most people who read and write taboo here know that in the real world its abuse and not anything that should happen.

Understand I abhor true rape stories, and not a fan of NC in general here, but I'm not going to judge or censor it or side with others who do because we all know the truth of censorship, you allow it on them, it comes for you.

My only issue on the entire topic here has always been the absurdity of them saying they don't allow it, and have a category named for it. Just admit it, and allow it, and as long as it stays in its own category where people know what to expect, then no harm no foul.

Meanwhile...this is the conversation that should be being had about BTB stories in LW where its sheer violence and torture being glorified, not even in a secual fantasy sense. So while everyone is harping on an actual kink in the proper place...you should be aiming your disdain over there, because rape is a legit fantasy and kink. Violence and hate is not one....and what I just said is now considered kink shaming here. To condemn eroticized violence is wrong.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I want to write a story about real rape. About the victim taking real revenge. I want to do so in a nonerotic way, but erotic tender moments between the victim and their champion. I really want to pen such a story and publish said tale of two lives published here. But fear they'll ban it or make me change in until neither the rape (which doesn't necessarily have to be shown) nor the revenge carries any emotional weight. I have outlined the story. But haven't done any writing on it.

I wouldn't glorify rape or revenge taken on a rapist. It's an exercise in what I'd wished I could have done. I'd never really do it, though.

 

[Bamagan]

As long as they're advocating it in story form only, that's not an issue. The site has a category for it, so its within the rights of authors and readers here to enjoy it at the fantasy level. I don't think anyone here is saying its a good thing in the real world, just like most people who read and write taboo here know that in the real world its abuse and not anything that should happen.

Understand I abhor true rape stories, and not a fan of NC in general here, but I'm not going to judge or censor it or side with others who do because we all know the truth of censorship, you allow it on them, it comes for you.

My only issue on the entire topic here has always been the absurdity of them saying they don't allow it, and have a category named for it. Just admit it, and allow it, and as long as it stays in its own category where people know what to expect, then no harm no foul.

Meanwhile...this is the conversation that should be being had about BTB stories in LW where its sheer violence and torture being glorified, not even in a secual fantasy sense. So while everyone is harping on an actual kink in the proper place...you should be aiming your disdain over there, because rape is a legit fantasy and kink. Violence and hate is not one....and what I just said is now considered kink shaming here. To condemn eroticized violence is wrong.

Serious question: would your response to my statement have been different it I had remembered to append

 

[lovecraft68]

I just want to add really quick, that generally when the AH Mod closes a thread they do so with a message saying its devolving etc...

No message indicates it probably wasn't them that closed it.

 

[Bamagan]

It's been wiped now, but there was definitely an exchange of insults in the thread. Or perhaps more accurately, one person made a rather tone deaf but undirected remark about terminology, which somewhat understandably provoked another poster into responding with a scatological epithet (but not in the literal scat sense)

 

[MillieDynamite]

There were, however, several messages removed claiming abuse by one person toward another.

I just want to add really quick, that generally when the AH Mod closes a thread they do so with a message saying its devolving etc...

No message indicates it probably wasn't them that closed it.

 

[alohadave]

TBH, I saw nothing in that thread that was a personal attack, shaming anyone or any real insults.

It was a serious conversation about a serious topic and people's use and motivations for using it in stories. In other words it was the exact type of conversation that should go on in a writing forum.

If you go back and read the post I made about the MC section, I added in yellow "If this post is deleted I'm right"

Now, I'm not claiming that's the reason, but its part of it. The site does not want discussions involving its content. It doesn't want its faux 'rules' pointed out, and lately every post being deleted is about 'kink shaming' and a lot of them involve discussions about LW, specifically BTB stories and the crowd of animals over there.

In the past this site has protected trolls like Scouries and Freddie, let them do disgusting things, drive people away. They allow the BTB crowd, they allow the true rape tales and the crowd it brings, and that is their business to do so, but they are sensitive about it because as they allow it they also want this image of having some type of ethics.

BTW, its not the mod deleting most of the posts lately. So that leaves one other person. They used to claim to be a free speech site, they claim 'heated discussions' are fine, but when the conversation goes down the road of "I thought they say this...and Why is this here, and why is allowed and..."

The don't emperor doesn't like to be shown as having no clothes. Lit now has the media version of free speech. Free until they don't like it.

Moving forward just keep the topics light and all threads sounding like they belong in the playground.

Real discussion is a thing of the past.

Why are you here if you can't stand it? You take every opportunity to tell everyone how poorly the site is run and how awful the posters in the AH are.

I wonder in your distaste do you decline prize money when you win?

 

[MillieDynamite]

Win money? Not me. I've won so little in my life that I feel like a loser. Actually, that's not true. I have won a string of monthly contests at a site I no longer hang out at, and I quit entering them for months to let others win. My God, if they vote me a winner repeatedly, as bad as I pen a story, how can respect the other writers who keep voting for me?

 

[EmilyMiller]

I want to write a story about real rape. About the victim taking real revenge. I want to do so in a nonerotic way, but erotic tender moments between the victim and their champion. I really want to pen such a story and publish said tale of two lives published here. But fear they'll ban it or make me change in until neither the rape (which doesn't necessarily have to be shown) nor the revenge carries any emotional weight. I have outlined the story. But haven't done any writing on it.

I wouldn't glorify rape or revenge taken on a rapist. It's an exercise in what I'd wished I could have done. I'd never really do it, though.

I wrote a real rape story for therapeutic reasons. Won’t ever publish it and there was no justice / revenge for the victim, just ongoing trauma response. Just like RL.

Em

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I understand that literotica is its own entity and can make any rules that it wants. That doesn't mean that any of us can't call out hypocrisy that we see in said rules.

The point in the other thread was made (if I may generalize it) that rape is bad so it shouldn't be written about. It's a fair opinion but I do not share it. It's the age old argument that anything bad should be swept under the rug. In reality nothing could be so dangerous. If there is a threat in society don't hide it. In fact, don't let it hide. Keep it out in the open where we can all see it coming. Not only does it make it much easier to avoid, but having it out in the open makes it so much easier to understand the issue and find the best way(s) to deal with it. If something is shushed and tabooed it subverts. When it subverts it grows out of sight, secretly gaining strength. A wolf doesn't hang out in the open meadow and say "come on sheep, I'm ready to eat you". It hides in the shadows of the thicket and strikes when it's not expected. If you shove that threat under the rug you are actually helping that threat.

If more men were able to read a realistic bad end rape story and begin to learn the true fear and horror of the experience of the victim our society would have much less tolerance of rape. Men are humans too. They can empathize. I could venture to guess that most men have never had to think about just what it's like to be that victim. That's not necessarily their fault. Society doesn't expect them to. Society would rather shove the issue under the rug. I would venture to guess that it has never occurred to most men that a rape victim is often the only witness to a crime that would put the rapist behind bars for many years. Just that fact alone means that her life could be in danger the moment that the act is done. Just that alone is beyond fucking scary. I would bet that there are a few million men out there right now who if had given that concept one good sober thought would de-fetishize any rape fantasies that they might have otherwise had. But that won't happen if we don't allow honest realistic rape fiction (in whatever medium).

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil is always a terrible strategy for a society. We need enlightenment, not secrets.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I wrote about my real rape in a forum on another site and was told I was fear-mongering. Most women never experience rape or sexual abuse, and making them afraid it would happen to them wasn't productive. Take a guess what sex the person with that attitude was.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I wrote about my real rape in a forum on another site and was told I was fear-mongering. Most women never experience rape or sexual abuse, and making them afraid it would happen to them wasn't productive. Take a guess what sex the person with that attitude was.

FUCK THAT SHIT!!!

Em

 

[Bamagan]

I wrote about my real rape in a forum on another site and was told I was fear-mongering. Most women never experience rape or sexual abuse, and making them afraid it would happen to them wasn't productive. Take a guess what sex the person with that attitude was.

Don't spook them!
(To clarify, I'm guessing this was the other party.)

 

[AchtungNight]

I am a man, and also a victim of near-rape. I say near because the offender wasn’t committed to the deed, I have martial arts skills, and it was a summer camp bully situation where witnesses showed up before things got too complicated. Naturally, I am thankful for all this. I understand the need for quiet regarding such matters, but I will speak while I can and hope I’m heard. Congrats on surviving a similar situation to those with the experience, empathy if it went worse for you than me. And yes, it is thanks to that situation that I keep non-consent stuff out of my erotica.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I debated putting the love icon rather than like. But someone told me that only the likes count. I'm not sure what they count or how they count. But to your point, I have dozens of therapy stories about the abuse I've had. I may, at some point, alter them and publish them at BookApy. May as well make money for my pain if I can.

I wrote a real rape story for therapeutic reasons. Won’t ever publish it and there was no justice / revenge for the victim, just ongoing trauma response. Just like RL.

Em

 

[MillieDynamite]

I am a man, and also a victim of near-rape. I say near because the offender wasn’t committed to the deed, I have martial arts skills, and it was a summer camp bully situation where witnesses showed up before things got too complicated. Naturally, I am thankful for all this. I understand the need for quiet regarding such matters, but I will speak while I can and hope I’m heard. Congrats on surviving a similar situation to those with the experience, empathy if it went worse for you than me. And yes, it is thanks to that situation that I keep non-consent stuff out of my erotica.

But you shouldn't have to keep it out if you feel inclined to write it. I don't want censorship.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Don't spook them!
(To clarify, I'm guessing this was the other party.)

LOL

 

[AchtungNight]

But you shouldn't have to keep it out if you feel inclined to write it. I don't want censorship.

Yeah, well, I can’t publish it here. Read between the lines and you’ll know why.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Alterations are on the second floor. Refits, rearrangements, and redux are on the third floor. And there are other sites you can post on.

Yeah, well, I can’t publish it here. Read between the lines and you’ll know why.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I wrote about my real rape in a forum on another site and was told I was fear-mongering. Most women never experience rape or sexual abuse, and making them afraid it would happen to them wasn't productive. Take a guess what sex the person with that attitude was.

It's hard for people to be reminded of what terrible things their race, sex, group, etc. is capable of.
Last July 4th, I was at a get-together with neighbors, and a woman began spouting about how wonderful it was for America to fight for their freedom and create a country based on it. I remarked off-handedly that it would have been even better if they could have done it without enslaving millions of Africans and committing the worst mass genocide of a native people, in the history of our planet. I'm fairly certain I won't be invited back next year. I kinda killed the festive mood.

 

[SimonDoom]

I would like the site owners or their designated forum moderators do a much better job of making clear to us the rules for regulating threads and when they decide to shut them down.

I agree fully with this as a basis for eliminating someone's post to a thread:

[No personal attacks or trolling - including creating accounts for this specific purpose. Heated discussions are fine, even welcome. However, personally attacking / kink-shaming a fellow author or reader is not allowed within the Author's Hangout. Threads which devolve into the exchanging of insults will be closed and repeat offenders will be given a timeout, per the AH rules.]

But this rule is not applied clearly or fairly or evenly. In the case of the thread to which everyone is referring, the OP's opening post did not fall under this prohibition. There's a big difference between kink-shaming a fellow author or authors, on the one hand, and asking a general question about the appeal of a particular kink, on the other. The latter should be permitted. I strenuously disagree with those who feel that stories that indulge the fantasy of nonconsensual sex should not be allowed, but I see nothing wrong with allowing discussions about the subject. It's an important, and very interesting subject. Discussion of this subject allows us to get to the bottom of why this uncomfortable subject is an appealing kink to many. That's a legitimate subject.

The OP's comment to another poster in the thread, however, was inappropriate and rightly deleted. In my opinion, the Site should shut down personal insults and attacks immediately. Doing so in no way impairs people's ability to engage in a debate on the merits.

But why should a post like that cause a thread to be closed down? Some of these discussions are interesting and worthwhile.