Writing as the opposite sex

[TheMalevolence]

Hey guys, I've been having a little trouble with a story lately; I decided to try my hand at some Lesbian scenes, but, since I'm male and there are no male characters, it's hard to know that the characters I'm focusing on are realistic, since I really have no experience of ever being female. I'm writing the story from a 3rd person point of view, and I'm wondering if anybody has any random tips, or possibly examples of good female storytelling. Cheers!

 

[sr71plt]

Well, sure. I suggest you turn off your bold key.

 

[Carnevil9]

I've written a few lesbian scenes. I feel more comfortable writing a lesbian scene than a hetero scene from a woman's perspective, because sometimes I feel like a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

One piece of advice: try writing it in first person. That way you avoid pronoun issues. It's "my pussy" vs. "her pussy" rather than having to use character names every time you want the reader to know whose pussy/boob/tongue/tentacle is being discussed.

 

[TamLin01]

I gather there's no inherent sensory distinction. If you remember kissing a woman, the experience should not be terribly dissimilar for a woman kissing a woman either.

If you feel like you want firsthand testimony, there are a great many women who write erotica whose work can furnish that in a few clicks.

 

[Learin]

If you're really serious about it, you might try and read stories by author Colleen Thomas and SweetestThing. Their lesbian stories are well-written.

I don't see much of a difference between a male and a female perspective. A few minor additions such as a better focus on dresses, make-ups and other girly stuffs should convince the reader that it is from a female POV. It isn't a major thing, but one of the minor things that act as pointers for me when I enter the character's shoe.

Good luck.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Become transsexual as all the female stuff blossoms when you sprout tits and add lipstick.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Paco Fear, with both chromosomes, wrote very popular lesbian fiction here as a guy. Check him out.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Become transsexual as all the female stuff blossoms when you sprout tits and add lipstick.

Yeah. Or, Bruce Jenner has a lot of info for you that he - or she, that is - can help you with.

Like how women like to go to firing ranges and shoot guns, and especially, how they like to go into full contact boxing matches and damage their faces.

No doubt, this will also particularly apply to lesbian chicks, who are very aggressive and violent. And stoopid too, like Bruce. Bruce therefore, is unquestionably, a female...

And should have his balls cut off.

 

[49greg]

I've done a couple of what I think of as pseudo woman to woman scenes. But I wrote in third person, and after re-reading one of them recently I think it sounds like a young man's fantasy of what two women would do. Especially since for most of the time they're talking about the nineteen year old son of one of them.

Another one I did was also third person, from the point of view of the young man watching his mom with a slightly dominant woman, and only watching long enough to bring himself off as he was peeking through a gap in the doorway, most of the action was afterward and "off screen" so to speak.

I know any lesbian scenes I have done or will write will be coloured by me being a male and will be male fantasies of what lesbians do, and as such I am sure haven't been, and won't be anything like true to life.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Not necessarily.

If you're a straight dude, then you're in a better position to write lesbian than a straight woman, I think.

You get it. You desire women. You have the same love/sex object. So you're in a good position to imagine what a woman loving women feels.

Maybe you're just talking actual sex acts. Still, a lot of men can write it well.

I know any lesbian scenes I have done or will write will be coloured by me being a male and will be male fantasies of what lesbians do, and as such I am sure haven't been, and won't be anything like true to life.

 

[TheMalevolence]

Not necessarily.

If you're a straight dude, then you're in a better position to write lesbian than a straight woman, I think.

You get it. You desire women. You have the same love/sex object. So you're in a good position to imagine what a woman loving women feels.

Maybe you're just talking actual sex acts. Still, a lot of men can write it well.

Thanks, but it's not necessarily the lesbianism that's the problem; It's just the fact that the story's protagonist is female. I've seen enough people get chastised for writing out 19 year old boys' fantasies to be a little bit scared of getting it wrong.

 

[PS_Alexandria]

You already know what attraction to women is like, and writing a woman who is attracted to women isn't much different. But that's already been covered by other posters here. I think the biggest mistake to avoid would be having your viewpoint character ogle herself too much. You can and should show how she looks, but having her say something like "I know I'm hot because I'm 115 lbs with 38DD boobs," having her introduce herself purely in terms of physical attributes, or having her be aroused by looking at her own body will all make her viewpoint sound inauthentic. Female-bodied people are accustomed to being female-bodied. A man who's just been turned into a woman by magic might be like "ooh, boobs!" when he/she sees him/herself, but a woman has had those boobs since at least the beginning of high school, and hasn't gotten excited about the fact that she has boobs since she was 12.

 

[sr71plt]

If you're a straight dude, then you're in a better position to write lesbian than a straight woman, I think.

Hadn't thought about it, but this rings true.

 

[TheMalevolence]

You already know what attraction to women is like, and writing a woman who is attracted to women isn't much different. But that's already been covered by other posters here. I think the biggest mistake to avoid would be having your viewpoint character ogle herself too much. You can and should show how she looks, but having her say something like "I know I'm hot because I'm 115 lbs with 38DD boobs," having her introduce herself purely in terms of physical attributes, or having her be aroused by looking at her own body will all make her viewpoint sound inauthentic. Female-bodied people are accustomed to being female-bodied. A man who's just been turned into a woman by magic might be like "ooh, boobs!" when he/she sees him/herself, but a woman has had those boobs since at least the beginning of high school, and hasn't gotten excited about the fact that she has boobs since she was 12.

People who do that really irritate me. It's a very rare occurrence when I come across a female writing from a male's point of view and he's lovingly describing his 9 inch cock. Although that, admittedly, is equally infuriating.

 

[sr71plt]

People who do that really irritate me. It's a very rare occurrence when I come across a female writing from a male's point of view and he's lovingly describing his 9 inch cock. Although that, admittedly, is equally infuriating.

But . . . but . . . I do think that men are more prone to admire and glorify (and overrate) their cocks than women are to admire or glorify any of their sexual attributes.

 

[TheMalevolence]

But . . . but . . . I do think that men are more prone to admire and glorify (and overrate) their cocks than women are to admire or glorify any of their sexual attributes.

Fair point. Let me rephrase:

I rarely see female-written stories where a male scientifically rattles off his penis length and width right at the start of the story.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I just find some of the casual comments here are very narrowing of what people are like - across the entire span of what they are, which is, very different in many cases.

I really don't know about this 'women are not excited about their boobs' because they have had them since they were 12...

What woman with prominent breasts hasn't felt the glare of irritation from some of those other women who appear to maintain a constant rage or jealousy because they think their own breasts are not large enough? Or what about those women who permanently believe their breasts are NOT large enough - even though they really are! (Not to mention what woman with large breasts has never had mid-back pain?!! People don't just 'disregard' their breasts.)

There seems to be this general tendency for a lot of writers to assume erotica or porn stories are all about some mythical general standard of turn-on that applies to: all straight males (1 set of), all gay males (1 set of), all lesbians (1 set of), all straight women (1 set of), and so on. Sort of 'one size fits all in each specific category.'

And I don't think that's right.

Sure, if you are a straight guy, and you are naturally interested in lots of women and therefore maybe also lesbian women and what they are going to do inside a graphic erotic context, then, okay, I totally think yes, some insights from actual lesbians would be very useful.

The trouble is though, people can be VERY different one to the other, and this is no less true of any one particular sexual grouping.

What works in the mind of one person will be totally anathema to another in some instances although okay, there is a broad (meaning ill-defined) centre ground there somewhere.

Secondly, the OP may be talking about things that are OBVIOUSLY incongruous to lesbians but seemingly might be okay to the minds of some males - so, the test of authenticity will be failed.

This area is actually also fraught with enormous 'sexual economy' issues.

And it is not a simple area to traverse. Psychologically and in terms of sociology especially economic sociology. There are questions of power, tribal power, financial convenience and power, all kinds of things. Very complicated.

One thing I will tell you though that stands out to me based on my own experiences - I have never met a stupid lesbian. Never. But I have met a lot of stupid 'gay' males; indeed many. There are those gay males who exaggerate their interest in intellectual or artistic things - it seems to be a compensation thing or part of the lifestyle territory - but they can never match the natural intelligence of lesbian women as far as I'm concerned.

For me, a lot of the usual publicly-available gay male image profile leans towards outward aesthetic expression and very ego-demonstrating showiness even when indeed intelligent, whereas virtually every single one of the lesbian and the bisexual women I know or have met at one time of another have an inner core of pretty daunting intelligence which is much more subtle - they are like coiled snakes, really. And I must quickly add that I don't share the usual religious bias against snakes as such. I say males goes, should also say as far as super intelligent gay males goes, well I just have never met one. I've met a lot who think they are...

When it comes to sheer authenticity, you cannot do better than reflect in stories some actual experience of some person - or 'type' of sexual person - rather than just have someone else back up an entirely imagined event or set of erotic actions.

I don't think there's a way out for writers - I know there are successful writers who manage to do it without the actual 'real' experience - but I believe writers are required to go out and get as much real experience as they are able to.

And if anyone tries to argue with me about this they would be wasting their time - are there lesbians who would allow themselves to be intimate with you for the purposes of writing research? Absolutely no question there are.

 

[sr71plt]

One thing I will tell you though that stands out to me based on my own experiences - I have never met a stupid lesbian. Never. But I have met a lot of stupid 'gay' males; indeed many.

Well, so much for your objectivity and objection to "narrowing" casual comments.

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

I've known a few writers who write well in the other sex successfully in my humble opinion. As acting often requires one to play a role that's very much unlike our own experiences I cannot think it's much different. Then I am a believer that despite oyr gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation and general tastes people are pretty much the same and tend to want the same things out of life.

If you can touch something in the reader that enables them to identify with the you I think the story has succeeded.

Wether it's written as a woman pretending to be male, or a man pretending to be female I doubt it matters. I myself have found good examples of both.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I really don't know about this 'women are not excited about their boobs' because they have had them since they were 12...

What woman with prominent breasts hasn't felt the glare of irritation from some of those other women who appear to maintain a constant rage or jealousy because they think their own breasts are not large enough? Or what about those women who permanently believe their breasts are NOT large enough - even though they really are! (Not to mention what woman with large breasts has never had mid-back pain?!! People don't just 'disregard' their breasts.)

Sure, I don't think anybody was saying women don't care about their breasts. Like you say, some women think about them a lot. I think the complaint there was about stories that read like "I looked at myself in the mirror, admiring my firm perky breasts with my rock-hard nipples the size of quarters, and my pouty lips".

That sort of stuff, IMHO, reads like it's been written by a guy who doesn't get to see a lot of naked women and who's preoccupied by the thought that if he was a woman, he'd have one naked female body that he could stare at whenever he liked.

Sure, if you are a straight guy, and you are naturally interested in lots of women and therefore maybe also lesbian women and what they are going to do inside a graphic erotic context, then, okay, I totally think yes, some insights from actual lesbians would be very useful.

The trouble is though, people can be VERY different one to the other, and this is no less true of any one particular sexual grouping.

There's also the issue that just about anything you can think of happens somewhere out there in real life. So it's often not so much "this would never happen" as "this is massively overused".

Example - strap-ons in lesbian stories. Yes, some women (including straight women) love wearing/receiving them. They're not a myth! But if every single "lesbian" scene you write involves a strap-on, I may start suspecting that you're a guy who has trouble figuring out how sex could happen without a cock going into somebody.

One thing I will tell you though that stands out to me based on my own experiences - I have never met a stupid lesbian. Never.

That you know of. Observations like this are sometimes more about who is and isn't visible than about what's really going on.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

But . . . but . . . I do think that men are more prone to admire and glorify (and overrate) their cocks than women are to admire or glorify any of their sexual attributes.

I can tell you that women are probably more fixated than men. Boobs, ass and waist, and are always sizing up the opposition.

Anthropologists tell us it's because we're competing with our sisters to find the most virile male for breeding.

Isn't that why guys get so fixated by the size (or lack of it) of their family jewels.

The biggest tool gets in the box.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I can tell you that women are probably more fixated than men. Boobs, ass and waist, and are always sizing up the opposition.

Anthropologists tell us it's because we're competing with our sisters to find the most virile male for breeding.

Isn't that why guys get so fixated by the size (or lack of it) of their family jewels.

The biggest tool gets in the box.

This is what I why think too... Although I agree with Bramblethorn about his other points re overuse of some things, the bit about women not standing in the mirror admiring their breasts, hmn, well, okay not ADMIRING, but definitely looking at and definitely thinking about comparisons.

I guess the takeway from this to the OP ought to be along the lines of, 'don't have the female character appear to look at, and think about her own body the way a guy would ogle it!' And even then, I'm not sure they wouldn't SOMETIMES... They might sometimes.

But okay that now makes sense.

As far as my own generalization goes, I did mean about the technical aspects of sex acts, not the psychology behind various sexual or gender mindsets.

As far as the psychology goes, I stand by what I said, namely that in my own experience these things seem reliably the case. Could there be the odd few exceptions? Possibly.

Do I simply know what stands out as opposed to what IS out there and relatively hidden?

That is a gratuitous and slightly tendentious comment in the event the person making the comment doesn't know a whole lot about 'me...' Here's an example: a long-time girlfriend of mine goes to a club, just to hang out for a few hours and drink some French 75 cocktails. I'll be in there too but I'll be an hour later getting there. In the meantime she has been sitting in one place, and you can't even tell she's scanned the whole joint. She has had one, at most two drinks. When I turn up, after another thirty minutes she walks over to this woman who is in a group, and the two of them just plain walk out together and I go back home after about another hour knowing what I'll find there when I get back there. So I buy a couple of large pizzas on the way and make sure I've got some chocolate for me because I'll barely be getting a look at the pizzas.

Next morning I quietly ask when the new kid on the block is in the shower, trying not to show I'm too dumb, 'okay what the fuck happened - how did you pick up so quickly and how did you know she would and how come so quickly?'

And she just tosses off the answer 'aw you know; you're an expert at this.'

And I grunt. But inside I'm going 'no I'm fucking not too!!'

And THEN she says: 'and hands off - she's purely interested in women only.'

There's some cold pizza left, not much but a few pieces anyway.

I mull over this and it takes me years - has taken me YEARS to get it. Now I get it.

Are there any dumb lesbians out there? Could be. Just not any that are getting laid a lot though. So of those that ARE getting laid a lot, they far outclass men for knowing how to get it, and where to get it, and what all the subtle signs are by as far as you can throw a stone backed by a howling gale. Gay males are clumsy oafs pretty much just like hetero males mostly are too.

Which basically also means, at least it does for me, that the well-experienced in practice, lesbians, know more and are better in action than those that are only lesbians in their minds or in their desires, mostly unfulfilled.

And so the OP wants to know from THESE sorts, the experienced ones, what stuff goes on... (I mean 'ought to want to know,' of course).

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Over to you, Pilot. Do me a gay pick-up scene. I'm open to greater enlightenment.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Do me one of those and I'll try and get one of the girls to contribute here.

 

[sr71plt]

Over to you, Pilot. Do me a gay pick-up scene. I'm open to greater enlightenment.

I've posted over 600 GM stories here, many with pickup scenes. Read those, if you want--and think as you like. Other than that I think you're too far gone for me to try to convince you of anything.