What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[firespin]

Remember, liberals define words on the fly...

Of course you do, too

You turning liberal on us now?

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

You ignore the forces of competition.




In your world, the Chinese would be charging inordinate profit in order to match US prices.

I mean, since pricing has no effect on the Supply/Demand curve and volume never beats quality...

Don't look now, but the era of cheaply made Chinese products is quickly becoming a thing of the past. As Chinese workers demand competitive salaries corporations are looking for other places to manufacture their products cheaply, until those workers get wise..

Many are going to Mexico. Some are even moving back to the US, yes, without the much asked for corporate tax cuts.

Contrary to what you would want to believe manufacturers don't move their operations overseas to make their products cheaper for the consumer, they do so to maximize profits. How else can you explain a pair of sneakers manufactured in China by a worker making $200 per month (at best) selling for $80 apiece?

I'm not sure why it is that you think corporate America has only the best of intentions toward consumers. They don't, they with very few exceptions, ever have. They are out to make a profit, as much profit as they can possibly squeeze out of their product. That isn't a bad thing, but don't try to tell anyone that they have anyones interest at heart except their board of directors and investors. If that means convincing the government to lower the tax they have to remit so that they can squeeze an even larger profit out of their product without affecting consumer pricing one way or the other than that is what they will do.

They as much as said this in the article you posted. They want the corporate tax lowered across the board so that they can then use the extra windfall to their own advantage. There was no mention of passing that savings along to the consumer, that is never their intention.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

You mean like hiring and product development?

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

You mean like hiring and product development?

Corporate profits have been accelerating all year. How much hiring have you seen? I know, they're "scared" to hire people..

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-06-21-morehours21_ST_N.htm

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

A simple Conversation with firespin...

AJ: I live in an oak forest...

fs: AJ, I'm standing in front of this tree and it's clearly a walnut, you don't live in an oak forest.

AJ: A forest will have more than one type of tree, but one usually predominates.

fs: All I see is this fucking Walnut tree! You're misusing the term Oak. It's just a forest.

AJ: 90% of the trees are oak.

fs: Now, you're just redefining the terms... We can't go any further with this conversation until you admit that this is a walnut tree...

AJ: Yes firespin, it's a walnut tree.

fs: Then you lied, you're stupid, and you're inconsistent...

 

[firespin]

I'm not sure why it is that you think corporate America has only the best of intentions toward consumers. They don't, they with very few exceptions, ever have. They are out to make a profit, as much profit as they can possibly squeeze out of their product. That isn't a bad thing, but don't try to tell anyone that they have anyones interest at heart except their board of directors and investors. If that means convincing the government to lower the tax they have to remit so that they can squeeze an even larger profit out of their product without affecting consumer pricing one way or the other than that is what they will do..

No corporation can stay in business without showing a profit.

However, they also need to generate revenue from people who have a choice whether to buy from them or not. (That choice is very important, and why I am in general against monopolies, especially government monopolies that can fine and jail you if you don't pay taxes.) Not enough revenue, no profit.

Any corporation that doesn't take consumer satisfaction into account, whether from quality of what they provide (relative to the cost), perception of value, product safety (now seen with Toyota), or even (now seen with BP) social impact is not going to be helping themselves from the profit standpoint. So your statement that (in essence) corporations have no interest in consumers is specious.

If people cared more where something was made or what the workers making it were paid, then corporations would care about that too. But that's demonstrably not the case.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Corporate profits have been accelerating all year. How much hiring have you seen? I know, they're "scared" to hire people..

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-06-21-morehours21_ST_N.htm

We fucking told you they would!

BUSH TAX CUTS TO EXPIRE!!!



Last week's jobless claims jumped unexpectedly!

Bank Failures top the 100 mark for the year!

BUT IT'S A LAGGING INDICATOR!!!​

 

[firespin]

blah blah blah.

AJ, you have many wonderful qualities. Meat cutting, martial artsing, whatever.

Listening to other people and understanding what they're saying, and characterizing their positions, however, are not among those qualities.

You don't pay any attention to what people say, you just use a comment as a springboard to making one of your random opinions or attacks.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

No corporation can stay in business without showing a profit.

However, they also need to generate revenue from people who have a choice whether to buy from them or not. (That choice is very important, and why I am in general against monopolies, especially government monopolies that can fine and jail you if you don't pay taxes.) Not enough revenue, no profit.

Any corporation that doesn't take consumer satisfaction into account, whether from quality of what they provide (relative to the cost), perception of value, product safety (now seen with Toyota), or even (now seen with BP) social impact is not going to be helping themselves from the profit standpoint. So your statement that (in essence) corporations have no interest in consumers is specious.

If people cared more where something was made or what the workers making it were paid, then corporations would care about that too. But that's demonstrably not the case.

No shit captain obvious.

But lowering corporate tax isn't necessarilly (or likely ever) going to result in lower prices for the consumer, since the consumer has already determined that the price they are currently paying is reasonable. The issue is that despite all evidence to the contrary the good Cap'n seems to think that the corporation, out of the goodness of it's heart, will lower those prices if the tax burden is lifted instead of pocketing the excess. The consumer, stupid as he is, will never know the difference since his cost neither increased nor decreased.

But it sure makes the board and investors happy if they can pull it off.

 

[firespin]

Corporate profits have been accelerating all year. How much hiring have you seen? I know, they're "scared" to hire people..

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-06-21-morehours21_ST_N.htm

That is actually what this guy says: 'He's mulled hiring more employees but worries that new health care legislation and a proposed climate change bill will raise his costs. "We don't want to tie up money in payroll if I have to divert it to other issues.""

I think the burden of proof is thus on you to show what that's not the case, by something other than one of your unique opinions re: economics.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

We fucking told you they would!

BUSH TAX CUTS TO EXPIRE!!!

Last week's jobless claims jumped unexpectedly!

Bank Failures top the 100 mark for the year!

BUT IT'S A LAGGING INDICATOR!!!​

When all else fails add some color and make the font huge.

Time for my workout.

 

[firespin]

No shit captain obvious.

But lowering corporate tax isn't necessarilly (or likely ever) going to result in lower prices for the consumer, since the consumer has already determined that the price they are currently paying is reasonable. The issue is that despite all evidence to the contrary the good Cap'n seems to think that the corporation, out of the goodness of it's heart, will lower those prices if the tax burden is lifted instead of pocketing the excess. The consumer, stupid as he is, will never know the difference since his cost neither increased nor decreased.

But it sure makes the board and investors happy if they can pull it off.

You're missing the whole competitive aspect part of this, Mr. Rocket Scientist.

If a company wants to grow market share, it can lower prices, especially if it doesn't have to reserve as much of its earnings to pay taxes.

If you look at any competitive market in the US, that's the case. The only companies that consistently pull high margins are companies with quasi-unique revenue sources, e.g. google and Apple...but those margins also invite competition. Ten years from now, some other companies will take their place.

 

[koalabear]

The market rallies, and the doomsayers take a powder, waiting for the next dip to sceech about the end of the world as we know it.

Hey Cap'n, if corporations don't pay taxes then why is it they want an "across the board corporate tax cut"? Do you think that they will pass those savings on to the consumer or just stuff their coffers instead?

Prove that you aren't as naive as I think you are.

That article was a nice attempt at discounting any stock market rally for the remainder of the year as any sign of economic recovery though. A lesson in spin at teh very most.

Good lord what a crock.

Is it actually a rally or a pump up by the PPT? Tell us oh wise one.*insert customary U_D rolleyes*

 

[jeninflorida]

here is what I got from this....bla bla bla....bla bla bla....I miss my days in the union...bla...bla...bla....yet I shop at wal mart....bla bla bla

Don't look now, but the era of cheaply made Chinese products is quickly becoming a thing of the past. As Chinese workers demand competitive salaries corporations are looking for other places to manufacture their products cheaply, until those workers get wise..

Many are going to Mexico. Some are even moving back to the US, yes, without the much asked for corporate tax cuts.

Contrary to what you would want to believe manufacturers don't move their operations overseas to make their products cheaper for the consumer, they do so to maximize profits. How else can you explain a pair of sneakers manufactured in China by a worker making $200 per month (at best) selling for $80 apiece?

I'm not sure why it is that you think corporate America has only the best of intentions toward consumers. They don't, they with very few exceptions, ever have. They are out to make a profit, as much profit as they can possibly squeeze out of their product. That isn't a bad thing, but don't try to tell anyone that they have anyones interest at heart except their board of directors and investors. If that means convincing the government to lower the tax they have to remit so that they can squeeze an even larger profit out of their product without affecting consumer pricing one way or the other than that is what they will do.

They as much as said this in the article you posted. They want the corporate tax lowered across the board so that they can then use the extra windfall to their own advantage. There was no mention of passing that savings along to the consumer, that is never their intention.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

here is what I got from this....bla bla bla....bla bla bla....I miss my days in the union...bla...bla...bla....yet I shop at wal mart....bla bla bla

Always making ASSumptions huh Jen?
Never been in a union.
You couldn't get me into Walmart if you chased me there with a cattle prod.

It's not surprising though that all you got from that post is what you wished to be true. It fits the typical "conservative" mindset.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

So, U_D, I guess you work for a business that is doing everything it can to maximize the fucking it gives to its customers?




I mean, knowing that business is evil and all...

"I'm not sure why it is that you think corporate America has only the best of intentions toward consumers. They don't, they with very few exceptions, ever have. "

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

So, U_D, I guess you work for a business that is doing everything it can to maximize the fucking it gives to its customers?

I mean, knowing that business is evil and all...

"I'm not sure why it is that you think corporate America has only the best of intentions toward consumers. They don't, they with very few exceptions, ever have. "

Very few businesses actually give two shits about their customer base beyond giving lip service and pretending to care and do only the minimum required to get them to keep spending money.

It's a fact of life, demonstrated by almost every corporation in existence. Their main motivation is and will always be profits. Given the option of cutting costs to the consumer, passing along a savings in corporate tax breaks or making a larger profit and keeping the consumer price the same, profit will win easily 90% of the time.

They exist to make money. That is not "good" or "evil", it's their purpose. To pretend that they won't do anything possible to maximize those profits is naive at best, outright denial or deception at worst.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Yeah, that's a viable business model: We disdain the customer...




I think you're projecting. Now, about YOUR employer...

How does it feel to keep the company propped up knowing it's out to screw everyone?

Just following orders? Collecting a paycheck?



You must realize they hate the employee too. Right?

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Yeah, that's a viable business model: We disdain the customer...

I think you're projecting. Now, about YOUR employer...

How does it feel to keep the company propped up knowing it's out to screw everyone?

Just following orders? Collecting a paycheck?



You must realize they hate the employee too. Right?

I think you're reading into what I posted what you want to. This is nothing new for you. Neither is the attempt to take this to a personal level despite your professed disdain for such behavior. I don't think you know who I work for or what their attitude toward their customer base is.. But that won't stop you from trying to take a personal shot will it Cap'n Hypocrite?

They don't hate the customer, they need them. More realistically they need their money. No company will last that's actively out to screw over their entire customer base, but that doesn't mean that they actually care about the individual consumer beyond making them just happy enough to keep spending. If they can increase profits without noticeably pissing off their customer base too badly, or the increased profit compensates for the loss in business caused by pissing off some of their base, they will tend to do so.

Given the choice of raking in more profit or passing along the windfall from reduced corporate taxes to the customer in the form of reduced prices, profit will win out the vast majority of the time.

You seem to assume that corporations are somehow going to develop an altruistic streak and pass up increased profit margins for their shareholders in order to reduce prices for the customers they care so much about. That simply is not the case, especially if the increased profit does not cause an increase in price to the consumer, the few companies that would do so are the exception, not the rule.

 

[jeninflorida]

oh come on...UD doesn't have a job...and for most of his life when he did work it was all entry level jobs "would you like fries with that...."

So, U_D, I guess you work for a business that is doing everything it can to maximize the fucking it gives to its customers?




I mean, knowing that business is evil and all...

"I'm not sure why it is that you think corporate America has only the best of intentions toward consumers. They don't, they with very few exceptions, ever have. "

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

oh come on...UD doesn't have a job...and for most of his life when he did work it was all entry level jobs "would you like fries with that...."

You should change your login to CluelessinFlorida.

It's funny that your goto insult is that everyone you disagree with is unemployed, on the public dole, or works flipping hamburgers.

Projection?

 

[jeninflorida]

I give you the respect you deserve


now run along and play with the other trolls....

you should make that alt for me!

You should change your login to CluelessinFlorida.

It's funny that your goto insult is that everyone you disagree with is unemployed, on the public dole, or works flipping hamburgers.

Projection?

 

[cebalrai]

Remember, conservatives base their reasoning on stereotyping "those people".

Fixed your post so you could just come out and say the truth for once.

 

[cebalrai]

You should change your login to CluelessinFlorida.

It's funny that your goto insult is that everyone you disagree with is unemployed, on the public dole, or works flipping hamburgers.

Projection?

Jen is the dunce of the GB. Don't expect her to have much more than one or two worn out insults to spam the board with.

And after she's done trolling folks with spammed trite comments, she tritely accuses others of trolling.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Durable Goods projected to be up 1% this morning!




Wow, looks like I was wrong about Obama, endless spending and debt.


He really does know how to grow an economy...




My bad...