You May Already Be On The New Police "Future Criminal" Database..

[Lost Cause]

This is the start of the "New law enforcement" attitude post 9-11. We have given them the green light to step on our neighbors as long as we are unmolested. Well, were not immune anymore, this will be instituted nationwide soon. Maybe some of the "1984" posters are not so far off base as we believed. How about you? Are you above suspicion? I know I'm not.


WILMINGTON, Del. -- Police in Delaware are trying to get a head-start on cracking crimes before they happen by setting up a database that contains a list of people who officers believe are likely to break the law.

Defense attorneys and the American Civil Liberties Union oppose the database, which lists names, addresses and photographs of the potential suspects -- many of whom have clean slates.

State and federal prosecutors say the tactic is legal, but defense lawyers object to the practice.

"We should enforce the existing laws, but not violate them, to catch the bad guys," said Theo Gregory, City Councilman and public defender. "We've become the bad guys, and that's not right."

Mayor James Baker called the criticism "asinine and intellectually bankrupt."

"I don't care what anyone but a court of law thinks," he said. "Until a court says otherwise, if I say it's constitutional, it's constitutional."

 

[restless_reaver]

1984?......I doubt it. The nation has reacted to a tragedy....that's all.

 

[Weird Harold]

The nation has reacted to a tragedy....that's all.

More like over-reacted when it comes to permitting constitutional rights violations.

 

[Lost Cause]

reacting to a tragedy...

Like Germany after the burning of the Reichstag, that's when their databases were put into effect amidst public fear. I guess were doomed to repeat forgotten history. "The Price Of Liberty Is Eternal Vigilance"

 

[SINthysist]

I agree on the over-reaction. Ruddy had some good comments this A.M. Let me go look...




Trial by Innuendo
Christopher Ruddy
Monday, Aug. 26, 2002

In some ways, I am more frightened by the FBI than the terrorists.

I am frightened by what Phil Brennan calls the "crucifixion of Steven Hatfill."

I am frightened that a U.S. citizen can be tried and convicted, his life and reputation destroyed, by a coordinated effort of the FBI without due process of law.

I am frightened that there has been no censure from the federal government and, in fact, the Justice Department has acquiesced to the way the bureau has behaved in its apparent extrajudicial witch-hunt against Mr. Hatfill.

In America, we don't try people by innuendo and smears. If the FBI has evidence, it should present that evidence to a grand jury for indictment.

But since it apparently does not have the evidence, the FBI needs to divert attention from the fact it failed to protect America from 9-11 and the anthrax attacks, to justify its wild-goose-chase investigation into the anthrax attacks.

If this was just an isolated incident, it could be excused. But there was the case of Richard Jewell and a laundry list of abuses by the FBI over the past 10 years.

And since no one high up in the bureau was held responsible for the witch-hunt of Jewell, why not scapegoat Hatfill?

Since no one in the bureau was ever held accountable for the catastrophic failure of intelligence by the FBI (not to mention the CIA), why should they change anything they do?

I am frightened by what has been happening in this country – even more so in the wake of 9-11, where we have seen almost no accountability.

Shouldn't we all be alarmed when a senior aide to Sen. Grassley tells the New York Times that senators and congressmen are unwilling to vigorously question the FBI about its handling of 9-11 because they are afraid they will be blackmailed and smeared by the bureau?

This looks more like Nazi Germany than America.


...



He goes on. It's at Newsmax.





Criminal Database sounds like profiling. I fall on the side of, Profiling is a USeful Tool for Law-Enforcement AND National Defense.

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: reacting to a tragedy...

Like Germany after the burning of the Reichstag, that's when their databases were put into effect amidst public fear. I guess were doomed to repeat forgotten history. "The Price Of Liberty Is Eternal Vigilance"

Hi Lost Cause. The loss of common law rights in the US post 9/11 is a major concern to all of us in the western world who have the English legal system because if the US legislature can be perverted so easily then the other national legislatures, including our own, will fall into the same line, willy nilly.

There has never been a greater threat to democracy as we know it than under the present US appointed Dubyah Administration.

The history of the FBI leaves a considerable amount to be desired and blackmail was one of the favourite strategies used by J Edgar Hoover to control people for his own ends.

When the "security forces" of a nation are unaccountable then the individual citizen has major problems and his democratic freedoms are really threatened.

 

[SINthysist]

Don, the Bush Administration HAD NO CHOICE politically.

They had to act. They had to act fast. They had to act hard. If they did not, do you have any idea what Daschle, Gephardt, and Clinton (Bill and Hill) would have done to them on the stage of United States Politics?




Much of that is being rolled back, undone, over-turned, modified, AND THE ADMINISTRATION KNEW THAT WOULD HAPPEN!



Just when Unconstitutional Legislation gets passed and signed because everyone wants the courts to do the dirty work they are politically incapable of.



You are very smart. Smart enough to see how things work. This is how here...

 

[Don K Dyck]

Government Works Against the Individual

Don, the Bush Administration HAD NO CHOICE politically.
They had to act. They had to act fast. They had to act hard. If they did not, do you have any idea what Daschle, Gephardt, and Clinton (Bill and Hill) would have done to them on the stage of United States Politics?

Much of that is being rolled back, undone, over-turned, modified, AND THE ADMINISTRATION KNEW THAT WOULD HAPPEN!
Just when Unconstitutional Legislation gets passed and signed because everyone wants the courts to do the dirty work they are politically incapable of.
You are very smart. Smart enough to see how things work. This is how here...

Yes. I see how things work in the US.

1. Give big business control of government,

2. stop the longest period of economic growth in the history of the country,

3. put the country on a war footing by creating a guerilla strike of monumental proportions,

4. expend the out-of-date munitions in a foreign country allegedly retaliating against 1/28 nationals of the country where you want to build a $US5 trillion pa pipeline . . .

the list goes on and gets no better.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

over reaction is the understatement, this is pure insanity and smacks in the face of 1984. Boys and girls face it, the time has come to toss all these clowns on both sides of the aisle out. The dems are run amuck with leftist do gooders hell bent on destroying the economy and the republicans have been infiltrated by jesus freaks looking to legislate morality yet at the same time yelling for the government to get out of our lives. It makes no sense, it is past a bad joke. The time is at hand to start fresh and aknew.

but maybe I am over reacting..I would hate to be listed under Adolph AssCrofts list of potential mean people.

 

[alltherage]

The intelligence and law enforcement communities in this country have always pressed there furry backs up against existing law. In the past it has been to create and keep a powerbase, as in the case of Hoover, but in general agencies of government are like human beings in that they always always always seek to survive.

If anyone needs to find reasons why the FBI has been so eager to cross over its legal restrictions one need only look at the feeling the exists in the land that they knew more than they let on about the Sept 11 atrocity. Knew more before hand that is. Cant you just see high level bureaucrats sitting in meeting discussing how they can never let that happen again. In that context I think law breaking and constitutional rights become secondary at best. It is not nazism is it fear and with dilligence and an independent judiciary we may all yet survive.

 

[SINthysist]

As to point one.

With big business in office - executives were given no help, then led off in handcuffs, their assets confiscated. When Clinton was in office, the EXACT opposite happened, so the Democrats have been proven themselves to be VERY good freinds of big business (witness Marc Rich).


As to point two, in the election Bush got hammered for saying we were sliding into recession and subsequent numbers have borne out that these calamities all began on the Democratic watch, i.e., Bill Clinton and Richard Rubin.

Now, look at Rubin's relation with Big Finance and his back-room deals coupled with Clinton's short-term borrowing and...

As for three, I cannot offer civilized comment.

As for four, better use them than let them rot, I guess. I assume you must be on the side of the destroyers of ancient relics...

 

[Susano]

Wasn't there a movie based on a PKD short story about this, just a couple months ago?
Panicky, ignorant reactions from the American public can't surprise me. But complete insensitivity to poor Tom Cruise, unjustly convicted of pre-crime? That's rare.

 

[Don K Dyck]

Sadly . . .

As to point one.

<SNIP>

I assume you must be on the side of the destroyers of ancient relics...

No SIN, I don't support the destruction of ancient relics. Neither do I support muddled thinking. Sadly, the only beneficiaries of 9/11 were the US munition manufacturers . . . and Afghanistan pipeline companies . . .

 

[SINthysist]

I would prefer you not push me on that topic. As a patriot and one who lives here and knows the people that comprise America, I cannot express deeply enough how wrong your impression is other than to say that those are literally fighting words as far as I am concerned.

In my heart, I will tell you this,

George W. Bush love America every bit as much as 'ol SIN does...

 

[Guest]

*bump

back to normal

 

[SINthysist]

...just thinkin' about 'Merica puts a tear in my eye...

Oh beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain!

 

[Don K Dyck]

The Sad Truth is . . .

I would prefer you not push me on that topic. As a patriot and one who lives here and knows the people that comprise America, I cannot express deeply enough how wrong your impression is other than to say that those are literally fighting words as far as I am concerned.

In my heart, I will tell you this,

George W. Bush love America every bit as much as 'ol SIN does...

lol Hey SIN, nobody is questioning your personal patriotism.

However, we do objectively question where your government is going and why it appears to be telling all sorts of incomplete untruths to get there.

The sad truth of this thread is that all of us who post here will probably be candidates for the FBI files because we have the temerity to analyse, evaluate and think for ourselves about government policies and are prepared to express an opinion different from the acquiescence and subservience preferred by the security agencies and their political masters.

 

[SINthysist]

Personally, because Ashcroft said one of the focuses of his policy would be porn, child porn, I have been under the assumption that they have, or will visit sites like this one, profiling...

It's a reasonable assumption. I do question what government does. This one thing, though, is beyond conjecture, conjecture that EVEN I WOULD NOT IMPOSE ON GORE HAD HE BEEN ELECTED (Napolean - Never assume to Malice that which can best be described by incompetence,), you simply must trust me on that one.

Now Area 54, I'm not so sure about. RastaPope saw strange lights over Kansas City...

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Trial by Innuendo
Christopher Ruddy
Monday, Aug. 26, 2002

In some ways, I am more frightened by the FBI than the terrorists.

I am frightened by what Phil Brennan calls the "crucifixion of Steven Hatfill."

I am frightened that a U.S. citizen can be tried and convicted, his life and reputation destroyed, by a coordinated effort of the FBI without due process of law.

Does anybody remember Richard Jewell? Does the FBI not remember how badly they goofed that one up?

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Mayor James Baker called the criticism "asinine and intellectually bankrupt."

"I don't care what anyone but a court of law thinks," he said. "Until a court says otherwise, if I say it's constitutional, it's constitutional."

What arrogance!

Baker's quote will go down in history alongside Nixon's:

http://home.att.net/~howingtons/gop/nix_smil.gif

"When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal"

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

This is the start of the "New law enforcement" attitude post 9-11. We have given them the green light to step on our neighbors as long as we are unmolested. Well, were not immune anymore, this will be instituted nationwide soon. Maybe some of the "1984" posters are not so far off base as we believed. How about you? Are you above suspicion? I know I'm not.


WILMINGTON, Del. -- Police in Delaware are trying to get a head-start on cracking crimes before they happen by setting up a database that contains a list of people who officers believe are likely to break the law.

Defense attorneys and the American Civil Liberties Union oppose the database, which lists names, addresses and photographs of the potential suspects -- many of whom have clean slates.

State and federal prosecutors say the tactic is legal, but defense lawyers object to the practice.

"We should enforce the existing laws, but not violate them, to catch the bad guys," said Theo Gregory, City Councilman and public defender. "We've become the bad guys, and that's not right."

Mayor James Baker called the criticism "asinine and intellectually bankrupt."

"I don't care what anyone but a court of law thinks," he said. "Until a court says otherwise, if I say it's constitutional, it's constitutional."

I will be terribly disappointed if I don't make the list.

 

[Spinaroonie]

This is the start of the "New law enforcement" attitude post 9-11. We have given them the green light to step on our neighbors as long as we are unmolested. Well, were not immune anymore, this will be instituted nationwide soon. Maybe some of the "1984" posters are not so far off base as we believed. How about you? Are you above suspicion? I know I'm not.

See! I told you!

(You damn slashbot, I was gonna post this )

I'm pretty sure I'm on one of those lists, I wrote a letter to my paper which was pretty inflamatory and had some key words.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Criminal Database sounds like profiling. I fall on the side of, Profiling is a USeful Tool for Law-Enforcement AND National Defense.

Round up the usual suspects.

http://casablanca.emlynn.ca/casaroundup.jpg

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: Re: You May Already Be On The New Police "Future Criminal" Database..

What arrogance!

Baker's quote will go down in history alongside Nixon's:

http://home.att.net/~howingtons/gop/nix_smil.gif

"When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal"

That's right STGuy, that model of Republican entrepreneurism, Richard Nixon.

Didn't he sell the Presidency to Hal Geneen of IT&T for a million dollars??

Then opened up the (Commie) China market for his capitalist mates, after Oz Prime Minister Gough Whitlam demonstrated that the Chinese didn't eat Europeans? Always thought that was a bit sus myself . . . you know, flag waving American capitalists exploiting Commies . . .

Then there was that trouble in 1974 when Spiro Agnew got done for, was it tax evasion?? Well, you just don't expect US corporations to avoid tax now do you?? Emron, World.com and Arthur Andersons were just minor aberrations on the broad backside of the "perfect capitalist economy".

Not Tricky Dickie's problem of course . . . but then, the Watergate affair . . . now that was definitely connected to Tricky Dickie . . . didn't he have to resign or something to avoid persecution??? And after winning so many states in the previous election . . . just goes to show that with good advertising IT IS POSSIBLE to sell a sow's rear as a silk purse.

You know, Guy, this morning that peace loving Cheney was quoted in the Oz press as still trying to justify an attack on Saddam Hussein . . .

Now why do I see a similarity to the Nixon scenario?? Was it the Florida election . . . the decision by Republican sleepers on the US Supreme Court . . . the failure by the biggest secret police force in the world . . . the similarity of "surprise" with the Lusitania, Pearl Harbour, Korea . . . the subsequent loss of common law rights for all Americans . . . the terrorism of individuals by the "security agencies" . . .

Now all we need to make "1984" complete is the establishment of the US as a secret police state. What's that . . . J Edgar Hoover was a homosexual who persecuted citizens to achieve his personal goals?? But surely, that couldn't be . . . after all, Tricky Dickie Nixon was reported as saying 'Thank God he's dead" and sent in . . . George Bush(?). . . to destroy any incriminating evidence . . .

 

[Lost Cause]

DKD....

Too much coffee?