Yo hoe- Fat girl!

[Pure]

note to crimson m

CMI don't find anything about my body beautiful. Does that make me a product of modern culture? Probably. I had a mother who told me when I was in college that I'd have better luck finding a boyfriend if I'd lose some weight.

P: My perception of myself comes from years of the influence of those around me. I was a cheerleader in junior high. One of the sponsors (same thing as coach) suggested I lose weight. My mother has already been mentioned. I spent 4 years during high school and college without so much as a passing interest being shown by any guy. I'm sorry, but I didn't arrive at my perception by myself. I had help.

these are unfortunate thoughts. 'unfortunate' because they're largely self fulfilling. which suggests they're not necessarily correct, in and of themselves. there's no reason to assume they're accurate any more than a Black person in the South, say 100 years ago, should think 'perceptions' (opinions) about her inferiority are valid, even though widely held and stated.

have you ever considered a change of scene. i think there are countries and settings where your 'look' might be appreciated.

lacking that, i'm a firm believer in 'for every pot there is a lid.' through the internet anyone can find people to whom a given 'feature' (e.g., disability) does not matter, i mean in person. it's of course easy to have cyberpals who dare care about looks.

here's another question. is beauty the same as sexiness? can we say, for instance, 'she isn't much in the looks department, but she's sexy as hell'?

 

[The_Fool]

Take it to the extreme Charley and do some research on "Feeders"

Makes me shudder.

 

[cantdog]

is beauty the same as sexiness? can we say, for instance, 'she isn't much in the looks department, but she's sexy as hell'?

There was a nurse in the Emergency Room, when I was a rookie ambulance man. Wow. She was aggressively plain, if I may put it like that. That's about right, aggressively plain. I know that doesn't conjure her up for anyone, so lemme see. She was short, first of all. No chance at 'willowy.' Compact and broadly built, fleshy.

She wasn't blonde, and blondes have more fun. She wasn't redheaded, and it seems to be a statistical fact that redheads have more sex. She was darkly brunette, without being describable as raven haired or anything like it. Her person oozed sensuality. She had a sort of excessive sexiness. I don't know what it was! I can't tell you what did it, although her voice was distinctly a part of it. Whatever the reason, man, the girl had IT. Lots of IT. She out-ITted any three other women in the place.

So the answer is yes. Without that quality, I bet i might have seen her body as a kind of short and sloppy one, but it was never perceived like that, due to this absolutely ginchy radiance she put out.

Man. I have had to think, since meeting her, that sexiness is indeed separable from other qualities. Some model-like figures surmounted by classically regular features are unpleasant or strident or spiteful people, and leave a man cold. But she was vivacious, engaging and engaged, just ginchy.

 

[SimonBrooke]

What is it with you women and weight?

Excuse me please....which MM are you refering to?....I believe those 6.5 lbs are due to water retention....back down 2 lbs today....to 119.5 lbs...

What is it with you women and obsessing about your weight?



Simon, down to 182 lbs this morning, from 183 yesterday...

 

[JamesSD]

is beauty the same as sexiness? can we say, for instance, 'she isn't much in the looks department, but she's sexy as hell'?

Oh good, an opening to pipe in with my straight, male, medium sized perspective.

Beauty and sexiness aren't the same thing. For example, I've always found Julia Roberts to be beautiful, but not terribly sexy (barring Pretty Woman... which perhaps illustrates that context matters for "sexiness"). Natlie Portman is more beautiful than sexy to me, although not un-sexy. Christina Ricci is an example of an actress I find more "sexy" than "beautiful".

This thread inspired me to do a google search on beauty and read the wikipedia entry, which I largely agreed with.

The world can be a cold place, and appearance matters. There are some pretty harsh and brutal economics at work in the dating and sex world. Maybe it "shouldn't" be that way, but it is. Most societies are harsher on women than men, which is unfair. I used to have some guilt for preferring to date women that I find more attractive (and my preferences don't differ too far from the mainstream). Somewhere my guilt ended. Perhaps it was in finding my special someone whose brain is just as sexy as her body? Maybe it was a shrugging "there's someone for everyone"?

-I could swear that once upon a time I saw a study where they showed men and women different silohettes of female forms and asked them to pick the "most attractive", and that overall the women favored slimness more than the men did. I'm unable to find it, so maybe I just made that up, but anecdotally I can say that pretty much every woman I've dated wanted to be slimmer than what my ideal is.

 

[sophia jane]

Okay, here's my take on the BBW thing...

There are way too many men out there preying on the fragile self-esteems of "big" women under the guise of "loving" them. This culture makes anyone who isn't a size 5 feel like they're a heifer, and unlike Charley, who's never been anything but thin, I know first hand what it's like NOT to be thin.

The feminine wants to be seen and loved. In our culture, BBW's are seen as repulsive and are abhored (I'm speaking generally here)... (never mind that WHAT percentage of the US population is considered "obese" now!?)

There are a lot of BBW women out there who are doing it because they get a taste of what it is to be "seen" and "loved" as beautiful... unfortunately, while there ARE people out there who appreciate a larger form, there are way way way too many others who are doing nothing but taking advantage of them.

I hear EL's point, and I get it... but I also think that there are a lot of women who aren't necessarily proud of their shape, but rather are doing it simply because they have felt so incredibly deprived of their basic birthright: their own beauty. They would do anything to feel it, just for a moment, even if it's not "real"... including taking their clothes off for some guys on a webcam or for pictures or videos to be taken, just to get a taste of what it feels like to be "beautiful."

But most of them still don't believe it. And never will.

I would rather live in a culture where shape and size were irrelevant... a personal choice or preference, certainly, but not something so strange it would be made into a fetish.

I want larger women never to even QUESTION their beauty, not for one moment. It IS their birthright, they are entitled to it, and to make it into a "fetish" is beyond insulting.

So there.

Back on topic, Ms Charley?

This is an interesting post, and I largely agree with you. At the moment, I'm at my very heaviest weight and I'm miserable over it. There's nothing sexy about how I feel, and I certainly can't imagine taking my clothes. And to be honest, I don't necessarily find BBW in porn a turn on either. Maybe cuz it reminds me of my own unattractiveness?
Mostly what I want to respond to is that last thing you said, Selena, about making it a fetish. That's a hard thing that I've been dealing with of late, feeling like the only people who would be attracted to me in my present state are people who like that fetish. I don't want to be a fetish. I don't want to be attractive only within a very small subset of people who have to buy special porn. It's certainly not helpful to women's confidence to feel that they require a fetish to be attractice and/or sexy.

My 2 cents and not entirely on topic. Sorry Charley.

 

[impressive]

the world swings on a woman's hips.

A WOMAN'S hips. Not a girl's or a slender boy's.

The full, lush, ripe hips of a woman...

that is beauty beyond words.

It can move the world.

 

[cloudy]

Yes.

And it IS your birthright, Crim. Beauty is every woman's birthright.
Whether you will ever believe it or not.
It is yours, heavy or thin.

You need to emBODY it... that's all.
Every pun intended.
The feminine is about the body, she is matter, mother earth, the embodiment of lifeforce...

the world swings on a woman's hips.

A WOMAN'S hips. Not a girl's or a slender boy's.

The full, lush, ripe hips of a woman...

that is beauty beyond words.

It can move the world.

Your post reminded me of that Shaggy song, Strength of a Woman:

So amazing how this world was made
I wonder if GOD is a woman
The gift of life astounds me to this day
I give it up for the woman
She's the constant wind that fills my sail
Ohhhhhh that woman
With her smile and her style,
She'll protect you like a child
That's a woman

She'll put a smile upon yah face
And take you to that (ah) higher place
So don't you under estimate
The strength of a woman
The strength of a woman

Woke up this morning
I got up with the scent of a woman
Jus picture if you could what life would be
Ain't much good without a woman
She can nag and be a constant pain
Ohhhh that woman
But those hips she's got me whipped
And it's just to hard to resist
What a woman

Tender lips that's so so sweet
Gentle words she softly speaks
Such an angel when we need
GOD bless the ground beneath her feet
She can take you on a high
Be your comfort when you cry
But if you look into her eyes
You'll see the strength of a woman
Strength of a woman

 

[amicus]

Apologies for the title.

Further to writing an article on fat fetishism, I wanted to ask a same question that I asked on a fat acceptance forum. Please know beforehand that in posting to this thread, I may quote your handle.

I asked:

"I'm certain that we have all heard the term or terms BBW, plumper, chaser and feeder, particularly in regards to adult sites. I think that no where else in culture do we find such an overt objectification of the big woman. I wondered how (as a big person) you see these sites, or what your thoughts are regarding the representation/objectification of fat women on these types of sites and also how you feel such depictions compare to the overall POV in current Western culture?

Thank you in advance for responding.

~~~~

I had to go back to remind who the threadstarter was, CharlieH is on a roll, no doubt.

I read each and every post and thought and considered and emoted, yes, even me, I know...nevermind.

If this were just a social gathering type of forum, I would in no way offer what comments I may have, for I would not wish to intrude or impinge upon personal, subjective opinions which are as they are and accepted as such.

But my understanding is that this is a 'writer's' forum, an authors hangout, where one might present and challenge ideas and thoughts that one may wish challenged and confronted, the purpose of which would be to learn and to expand.

In reading the posts on this thread, I thought to say and suggest, my God, just think, just read, just consider, just damnit, just think!

We are the product of our inherited genes.We are what we are because we are and nothing more nor less. I have to live with it, so must you.

We are what we are and must make the best of it. Is that not a truth?

Governmentally sponsered equality programs notwithstanding, can what is really be altered?

In the Jungle, when the ravenous and relentlous 'Goombas's, descend upon the herd, the strong and swift will survive and the young and the old and the weak and the slow will perish. It is the way of things; nature's natural course, without remorse, without concern, will will move on, with or without us.

As we become more civilized, (place a question mark there), social institutions endeavor to put in place rules and habits to bring more equality between the strong and the weak.

It is an understandable effort.

And of course, the ongoing political and social conflict is, 'can it be done?'. Perhaps, I think not.

The slow, heavy, overweight members of the herd will, as nature determines, always be sacrificed first. I did not determine the content of nature's will, nor do I necessarily endorse it, but does my thought or desire come into play?

I think not.

Humanity is vast and wide and I know not of all things, nor will I ever, but I continue to search.

I have empathy in gallons for those genetically placed in a category I would not choose to occupy. And how I should perceive and respond to those who are the lambs, (in biblical terms), I do not know.

But my efforts and energy, aside from my personal concerns, must be to those who will survive and prosper and take the future in their hands.

Is that really so hard to understand?

Amicus the intolerable...

 

[Pure]

The slow, heavy, overweight members of the herd will, as nature determines, always be sacrificed first.

actually it's the stupid whom nature culls first. watch out, Mr Intolerably Obtuse! (did you vaccinate your kids?)

 

[TxRad]

actually it's the stupid whom nature culls first.

I was but since OSHA came along they are living long enough now to breed even stupider people....


ETA: Sorry for the threadjack Charlie but I couldn't resist......

 

[SimonBrooke]

Oi! You're supposed to be the right winger around here...

We are the product of our inherited genes.We are what we are because we are and nothing more nor less. I have to live with it, so must you.

We are what we are and must make the best of it. Is that not a truth?

Amicus, dear heart, you're supposed to be the right winger around here. I'm supposed to be the left winger...

Yes, in the beginning you get dealt a hand. Some people get dealt good hands and some people get dealt bad hands. And that applies as much to our genetics as to anything else. But poker is an odd game, and life an odder one. A person who plays a bad hand with style and grace may end up ahead of someone who plays a good hand poorly; and even if they don't, a person who plays a bad hand well will earn more admiration and respect from their fellow players.

It's like in porn. It isn't how big it is, it's what you do with it that counts.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

This:

A person who plays a bad hand with style and grace...

Is very much related to this:

So the answer is yes. Without that quality, I bet i might have seen her body as a kind of short and sloppy one, but it was never perceived like that, due to this absolutely ginchy radiance she put out....

Beauty is NOT about perfection. Beauty is RADIANCE. It is the light that shines out from within. It IS light. Thank you, Cantdog, for recognizing and acknowledging that.

Perfection is, in fact, boring. And it is through the wound, through the imperfections, that our light shines through. There is a kind of oriental pottery that puts an intentional flaw into every piece, because that is where it is believed you can enter the art and see its beauty. It is the same with everything.

At the moment, I'm at my very heaviest weight and I'm miserable over it. There's nothing sexy about how I feel, and I certainly can't imagine taking my clothes (off)

Your beauty has nothing to do with what's on your outside. The change in your body will make a physical difference, yes, in your energy level, etc. But it really has nothing to do with that light that radiates from within. Do you really think that all you are is the meatsuit you're walking around wearing?

The moment you feel sexy, you ARE sexy. The moment you send that energy out, it will be perceived. If YOU can't get past your insecurities and fears of being rejected, no one else will either. I was and have been just as sexy at a size 20 as a size 10.

You can play whatever hand you're dealt, with style and grace, and use every little imperfection to invite the world in. There ARE no bad hands. Just hands. Deal.

 

[Arafura]

Hourglass figure timeless

I thought the following article was interesting re the oft quoted example of Rubens, and larger women being the ideal at certain points of history:

The hourglass figure is truly timeless
New Scientist
Published: 10 January, 2007

Written texts of all ages have the same drift when it comes to the midriff - they consistently describe women’s thin waists as attractive. The conclusion comes from an analysis of British, Indian and Chinese texts dating as far back as the first century AD. According to the researchers, the finding supports the idea that we are hardwired to prefer slender waists, which are linked to good health and fertility.

It is no secret that modern culture places a premium on Barbie-doll shaped bodies. Some scientists have argued, however, that this preference only represents modern Western values.

To gain perspective on the issue, psychologist Devendra Singh at the University of Texas at Austin, US, and colleagues mined the Literature Online (LION) database, which contains over 345,000 British and American works of fiction, prose and drama from 1500 to 1799.

Singh says he decided to analyse written texts instead of paintings, because clothing can sometimes obscure the waist size of characters depicted in the latter art form. He adds that written texts can give a clearer idea of how the subject should be perceived: “In poetry you say it outright, ‘Here is a beautiful woman and look at her waist.”

Clear, bright and neat

The database search yielded 2873 references to the waist in British texts, of which 87 were determined by two independent reviewers as having a romantic tone. The search similarly produced 219 romantic references to women’s breasts, 57 to thighs and 15 to buttocks.

All of the romantic references to the waist described it as slender. For example, in the early 1600s British poet John Harington described a beautiful woman as follows: “Her skin, and teeth, must be cleare, bright, and neat…/ Large brests, large hips, large space betweene the browes,/ A narrow mouth, small waste…”

But romantic descriptions of other body parts were less consistent about size. Many of the British writers eulogised small breasts, for example.

Singh then asked experts on Indian and Chinese literature to nominate ancient erotic poetry describing beautiful women. They suggested two Indian epics, Mahabharata and Ramayana, from the first to third century AD, and Chinese sixth dynastic Palace poetry from the fourth to sixth century AD.

Once again all of the romantic references to the waist – 56 in all – described the body part as attractively narrow . There is “not a single exception”, notes Singh.

Abdominal fat

He believes the ancient praise for slender midriffs is significant because it was only in the 1950s that scientists began understanding that comparing a person’s waist and hip measurements can serve as a key health indicator. For example, even individuals with relatively trim arms and thighs are at higher risk of heart disease if they have lots of abdominal fat.

Abdominal obesity has also been linked to an increased risk of breast and ovarian cancer and diabetes. Previous research has also hinted that women with low “waist-to-hip ratios” are more fertile (see Barbie-doll shaped women more fertile).

Singh believes that the consistent praise for women’s slender waists means that humans are hardwired to view the trait as beautiful. “This consensus could not be based on an arbitrary thing,” he says of the texts his team analysed. Instead our brains evolved a preference for this trait, because of its link to good health, the psychologist suggests.

He acknowledges that some artists, such as Peter Paul Rubens, have celebrated voluptuous women with thick waists. But Singh says such celebrations of thick waists are very much the exception, not the rule.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the Royal Society B (DIO: 10.1098/rspb.2006.0239)


http://www.newscientist.com/article...y-timeless.html

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

First. . .I hate the term BBW ---- Big Beautiful Women. . . why can't we just be Beautiful Women? ? ? Why do we have to be grouped into a category?

I am overweight, extremely. I make no secret about it. I have the self esteem of a gnat when it comes to my body. It is horrible. If I could change anything I would change it all but my hair color. I shudder at myself when I am nude in front of the mirror. . .but that is me. I'll get over it or I won't.

But as far as the whole generalization it is disgusting. It is just another label that has been placed on another group of people.

I think any woman who is insecure about themselves, but takes the steps to go out and publicly allow themselves to be viewed by people they don't know is someone I admire. I know thin women who wish they were larger, yet they step outside their box and show off what they like about themselves, or at least what they believe others like, even if they feel they are flawed.

I hope someday to be one of those women. I hope I can proudly display my entire self when I am ready too. When will that day come? I don't know, maybe never.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

First. . .I hate the term BBW ---- Big Beautiful Women. . . why can't we just be Beautiful Women? ? ? Why do we have to be grouped into a category?

I am overweight, extremely. I make no secret about it. I have the self esteem of a gnat when it comes to my body. It is horrible. If I could change anything I would change it all but my hair color. I shudder at myself when I am nude in front of the mirror. . .but that is me. I'll get over it or I won't.

But as far as the whole generalization it is disgusting. It is just another label that has been placed on another group of people.

I think any woman who is insecure about themselves, but takes the steps to go out and publicly allow themselves to be viewed by people they don't know is someone I admire. I know thin women who wish they were larger, yet they step outside their box and show off what they like about themselves, or at least what they believe others like, even if they feel they are flawed.

I hope someday to be one of those women. I hope I can proudly display my entire self when I am ready too. When will that day come? I don't know, maybe never.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

In the Jungle, when the ravenous and relentlous 'Goombas's, descend upon the herd, the strong and swift will survive and the young and the old and the weak and the slow will perish. It is the way of things; nature's natural course, without remorse, without concern, will will move on, with or without us.
Amicus the intolerable...

In the jungle, many elements contribute to survival. Speed might be one, but having a little "fuel reserve" on board could be another. I described this in a different context, here: https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=16530572&postcount=3352

Note: I understand the image in the referenced post is not exactly what this thread is about, but that doesn't change the point.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

 

[Selena_Kitt]

In the jungle, many elements contribute to survival. Speed might be one, but having a little "fuel reserve" on board could be another. I described this in a different context, here: https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=16530572&postcount=3352

Note: I understand the image in the referenced post is not exactly what this thread is about, but that doesn't change the point.

That's a really good point, Roxanne. Having some extra reserves can keep you alive. The "oldest" blood types (I think it's O?) are correlationally probably the hardiest humans... and also tend to be those whose bodies function the most efficiently to store energy reserves. (i.e. fat)

 

[Curse_Of_Undeath]

I've grown to loathe and detest the term "fat fetish". I much like the term "chubby chaser" better myself . The latter describes someone who pursues fat and chubby people and the former seems to describe someone who, by society's standards, isn't normal and is somehow perverse.

....wait a minute, I just described myself. Hahahaha.

Anyways, I find our society's standards of beauty absolutely detestable, and I find the fact that fat girls seem to subscribe to them even more detestable. I understand that there are people (men AND women) who prey on a fat person's low self-esteem in the hopes of scoring an easy lay, and this shit absolutely pisses me off as someone who is, to his very core, attracted to fat girls. Someone brought up a point that a woman, back during the days of Rubens and Renoir, who possessed full, lush hips, large breasts, and a prominent belly, were considered the height of beauty - and this society seems to have forgotten this. In fact, it's now being called an "epidemic". If it's an epidemic, then I'm down with the sickness (ooooh-WA-A-A-AH!).

Addressing the 'fetish' part, I've always said that if everyone were turned on by people's feet, there'd be no such thing as a 'foot fetish'; it'd be considered "normal". Face it - EVERYONE has something unusual that turns them on, whether it's feet, excess body mass, moles, or bunny costumes. Anyone who says otherwise is LYING!!

I don't find anything about my body beautiful. Does that make me a product of modern culture? Probably. I had a mother who told me when I was in college that I'd have better luck finding a boyfriend if I'd lose some weight.

To answer your question, YES!

One thing that people often seem to forget is just because an opinion is popular, it doesn't make it correct. Just because someone believes something, it doesn't make it true. Just because something is popular, it doesn't mean it's any good. So society thinks that you should lose weight. So society thinks you're ugly...

...Fuck 'em.

The only thing ugly I'm seeing is the fact that you're validating society's belief, and you're validating the fact that your mom basically insulted you out of some misguided sense of love. This basically goes out to anyone who thinks this, whether you're the one who's ever told a friend or loved one that "they'd be so much prettier if they'd lose weight", or if you ARE the friend or loved one who's been told that and you believe them.

If YOU don't like something about yourself, either change it, or work with it. Either eliminate the negative, or turn the negative into a positive. The latter is always easier, and in my opinion, far more fulfilling. I'd rather be with someone who already thinks I'm handsome, than with someone who thinks I'd be handsome if only I had rock hard abs and pectorals.

 

[minsue]

I believe a strong person doesn't listen to what they were 'once' told, just as I believe a person comes to understand that Santa is a lie. What a cope out.

Charley, sweetheart, that post is so utterly condescending and lacking in human empathy as to be appalling.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Charley, sweetheart, that post is so utterly condescending and lacking in human empathy as to be appalling.

"When you know better, you do better..." -Maya Angelou

 

[impressive]

Charley, sweetheart, that post is so utterly condescending and lacking in human empathy as to be appalling.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Charley, sweetheart, that post is so utterly condescending and lacking in human empathy as to be appalling.

I was going to just add a , but mostly I'm LOL. Of course Min is correct, but deep under many layers of non-empathy, there is a little kernel of truth there. Yes, sometimes it's possible to overcome a lifetime of conditioning and of being demeaned, and perhaps it becomes less impossible when one fully accepts that your purpose in life is your own happiness. But it's not easy.