Writer's Advice

[Rumple Foreskin]

Exactly!

Add my name to the "Amen" list. Even folks who don't like to use outlines and prefer to just jump in and start writing, would seem to benefit from having at least a vague idea how the story will end.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[elsol]

I beg to differ. If you're good, you have a good story as a first draft (not only short stories, I mean novels, too), which only needs a little polishing during the second, and maybe third drafts. You also have faith in your own abilities, and hence your story.

I have never thought, "It will NEVER be good enough." I've thought, "Yep, I'm happy with that one... next!"

And I think you just destroyed the hopes of many wanna-be writers, who can never look at their first draft and say 'This is good enough...'

So let's give them a different view...

Some of us do NOT have good first drafts... they're SHIT... and we work at it and work at it until we have a finished a product that we're proud of.

It does not mean we have less faith in our abilities, for there are few people with as high an opinion of themselves as me, it means we have a different process.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[elsol]

The Impact Character

Add this to this to your box of writing tools... it will save your butt from boring exposition time and time again.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Black Tulip]

The Impact Character

Add this to this to your box of writing tools... it will save your butt from boring exposition time and time again.

Sincerely,
ElSol

I have no idea. Can you explain? Please?

 

[elsol]

I have no idea. Can you explain? Please?

I borrowed this from Pleasure Boy 1's Elements of Erotic Literature; I used the Impact Character naturally in imitation of things I had read but now I do so more conciously.

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The "Impact" Character

Another dynamic in literature is the relationship between what's generally known as the "impact character" and the point-of-view character.

The Point-of-View character is the eyes through which we see the story, as we discussed earlier. Whether he or she is the protagonist (the character most active in pursuing the story's goal) or not is irrelevant.

The Impact Character is some other person in the story who works throughout the story to "impact" the point-of-view character concerning the story's main issue. They have little discussions and/or arguments throughout the story, or perhaps the impact character says nothing, and just actively influences our hero by example. The impact character could be anyone, even an enemy. The purpose he or she has in the story is to help convince the point-of-view character of an opposite side of the story issue, to try and win him over, as it were.

The point of creating an impact character dynamic is drama, of course, and conflict and tension. On a more macroscopic level, the impact character could be used by the author to express the very theme of the story. He could argue on behalf of the author himself, indirectly of course, trying to convince the point of view character (the reader, indirectly) of his thoughts on the overall theme. Once again, this must be done ever-so-subtly, or you risk sounding preachy or obnoxious.

The most common example of the impact character in erotic fiction is perhaps the seducer/seducee relationship. One character is trying to persuade the other as to the benefits of surrendering to their baser urges and indulging in whatever pleasures ensue as a result. They argue perhaps over guilt, morality, consequences, etc., and eventually one of them gives in, and convinces the other of their point of view, or else there's a stand off, wherein the debate itself was the point, rather than the winning. This dynamic is of course impossible in stories where the seducee gives it up without the slightest fight, unless of course you set the "passionate argument" after the sex scene: "How could you have taken advantage of me like that?" or something along those lines. You risk losing your readers that way though, who have already "gotten what they came for".

Pretty much anyone can be an Impact Character in erotic fiction however, especially when the story's issue is not necessarily related to sex. The issue could be self-worth perhaps, and whoever the main character's main influence is in regard to this issue would be the Impact character - his mom, an ex-girlfriend, his fairy godmother, his alternate personality. The impact character should be active in trying to persuade the main character of the issue though, and not be simply some unknowing bystander who the character happened to observe in passing one day.

"When I saw the way the man in the blue coat at the bus station treated his woman, I knew that I must change, once and for all..."

This is perhaps allowable, but it's not really an Impact Character moment. An impact character moment would look more like this:

"Phil wore me down, day after day, constantly trying to convince me that Juliette was losing respect for me and I ought to straighten out, but I never listened. One day however, he outright grabbed me by the shoulders and shook me. 'Get your fucking head out of your ass!' he said. 'That girl wants to be proud of you, but you're not giving her any reason to. Quit being a dickhead and walk like a man!' I finally began to see his point, but was it too late?"

Developing an Impact character is optional of course, but it is a good dramatic tool that every writer should know about. You see it all the time in the movies, and TV shows, and this is a good place to watch for it, to learn how the dynamic works.

-----

I use it the way PB1 describes, but I also us the IC as my voice in the story.

He/she is my go to guy/girl when I need to pass information to the reader and don't want to add plain exposition.

If I want the historical background of the 'diabolical conspiracy' to be given to the reader, I have my IC and POV character have a sit-down conversation on a park bench somewhere.

Tada! I got to TELL the reader stuff and it looks like I SHOWED them.

I cheat

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Black Tulip]

That is cool, Elsol. Thank you for explaining.
I never heard of it before.
But that's no surprise as there is no such thing as creative writing classes in my language. At least not on a serious level.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I started a whole thread when I should have posted here.

Let me correct that error:

Bad Porn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had an ephiphany today that what makes most bad porn (and erotica as well) bad is that there are too many close-ups. All the focus is on the in and out of the body parts and the moaning and grunting (unh! unh!) and the release. Close ups are good- but they need to be used judisiously rather than over-used. You have to back up too, and give a sence of place and story. Porn doesn't need a plot- but it needs a story. (Who are these people and why are they fucking?) Whithout some story element, all you have is too poeple who are paid to make a movie about fucking- they are doing there job rather than overcome by lust or passion or need or anything.

I think it's the same with stories. When I look at my own stories, I see some with too much close up, and I see that the story that was selected for the anthology (Faded Rose) isn't all close-up, it has more 'big picture' moments. It's not about 'in and out- in and out.'

Well, that's my oppinion anyway. I think it holds true for movies, pictures and stories. (I don't favor those close up body parts pictures eather that seperate the sex organs from the rest of the person except the Earls famous pic because sexyness is in the person, not the body parts. (However, they can still be sexy without showing the person's face, although I do prefere)

Feel free to agree or dissagree or comment or say, "Duh, we knew that all along" or whatever I'm impressed with my own cleverness- but I know that won't last long

 

[sweetnpetite]

Thank you, ElSol.

Now I know that the impact character in my novel is the mother- even though she's rarely seen, she has an important roll. Something that I can further emphasise. I'm so glad that I read that today. Thanks again.

 

[Winemaster]

this was a great thread

While I am trying to get a story together...there was soooo much good stuff here.
I have thanked many who have helped me.
Well, I did - EDit - edit get back to it later and then edit - edit again.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=12040715#post12040715


Hoping to finally get it up. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I always have the ending planned for a story before I ever put the first word on paper, regardless of genre. It might be a lack of faith in my own abilities, but I am very concerned with the idea of getting to the end of a story and having nowhere to go with it that makes sense. Then after the massive re-writes to fix it, the time I already spent working on it is virtually wasted effort.
.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The only problem is, that usually doesn't work for me.

If I had to have an ending in mind before I started writing, I wouldn't write anything. I know because I've tried it. I think of all the stories I have on Lit, not one of them had an ending when I started writing.

It shows too, and a lot of my stuff are just simple fuck stories that don't take a lot of planning. It gets me in a lot of trouble too, and I write myself into a lot of corners, but no matter how I try to plan, I just never really know what's going to happen until I sit down and start writing.

I do all my thinking at the keyboard. In fact, when I have to make important life decisions, I often sit down and write myself an essay about the pros and cons. It seems to be the only way I can figure out what I'm thinking.

 

[Boota]

Dr. M, you've either got balls like churchbells or you're just that damn good! I couldn't do that. Well, I couldn't do it and feel comfortable with it. I might be able to try it with something short, but with a novel I would be sweating bullets every step of the way. Not enough faith in my ability yet, I guess.

I kind of wonder if my obsession with planning is a subconscious display of my control freak personality. I have 17 novels fully planned out on paper from beginning to end and lots of the elements in the middle. Maybe that's a bit much. I leave a lot of room for spontaneity, but I do have a solid plan, along with notes for connecting the dots along the way. I have to leave holes to fill because that's a large part of the fun.

 

[Black Tulip]

I have an ending in mind I want to happen because that's what gets me writing.
But I never said that's the same ending when the story is finished. LOL

More often than not, the story takes its own course.
Sometimes altering the ending as well.
Perhaps that's because I hardly ever have notes "on paper" when I start.
It's all in my head. Except for novels, for those I have notes and background at hand.

 

[Gary Chambers]

If it feels good do it

If it works it isn't wrong. If it doesn't work it's totally wrong. All the rules from Dr. Mabeuse's five senses to Black Tulip's care over verb tenses are workable and good advice, but the truth remains that good writing cannot be taught. It's in you or it isn't. Take the counsel you find here and then just do it, discovering your own versions of all the rules along the way. Remember that the greatest writers of every era are seldom the ones critics rave about in their own time. They are usually the people who write the commercial pulp, the romance, the stroke, the silly mysteries and the improbable adventures. I can never forget that after his death Ian Flemming's wife remarked that he was not a very good writer, as her explanation for auctioning film rights off without safeguarding the integrity of his works. There are some suggestions that he was gay, so maybe she was just pissed off with him wasting her time and passion. Who knows? But I'd bet good money that his books will still be circulating 100 years from now and he'll be studied like a Jules Verne. There's nothing wrong with being a hack.

 

[Black Tulip]

Hi Gary!!!

Long time no see. How are you doing?

 

[hmmnmm]

One of my biggest problems - in written or oral communication - is wandering off the subject. I know that in some cases it can work, but when you're trying to portray a scene of sensual erotic, etc, it doesn't work to wander off the subject. ha! So it's been a chore to keep to one scene and make it work - still got a long way to go before real success, but I have hope.
So that's some advice I've taken and will send back to whoever may wish to use it or who needs a reminder: stay focused on one thing at a time.
The other: know when to take the good advice someone gives you but know when to ignore it as the case pertains.
Something like that... oh, and clarity... readers need to know what you mean - I think. Right?
Right.

Take care.

 

[cantdog]

It's a kick reading your posts, hmmnmm. Lovely to see you again, Gary!

 

[jtmalone70]

Thoughts From The Inside

**********

 

[Guest]

And I think you just destroyed the hopes of many wanna-be writers, who can never look at their first draft and say 'This is good enough...'

So let's give them a different view...

Some of us do NOT have good first drafts... they're SHIT... and we work at it and work at it until we have a finished a product that we're proud of.

It does not mean we have less faith in our abilities, for there are few people with as high an opinion of themselves as me, it means we have a different process.

Sincerely,
ElSol

Well, I'm sorry you see it that way, but in fact I was trying to do quite the opposite. I'm also not arrogant enough to think that my way is the only way and the right way for all. It's the way that works for me. Maybe, just maybe, there's one or two writers out there who were nodding their heads in agreement to the 11 points in my first post in this thread. I try to give encouragement and hope to all, and not discourage by saying as you said in your earlier reply to me:

If you're good, it will NEVER be good enough.

I actually found that to be quite a discouraging and arrogant comment. But, it's ok, I took into consideration who made the post.

We all write differently. I like writing the way I do and it works for me. I also know there's plenty more people like me out there who have good imaginations and are talented story-tellers, but might not be the world's best at "literature" and maybe don't know the workings of the English language inside and out. THAT'S what I was attempting to get across in my original post: it doesn't matter if you don't have a wonderfully wide vocabulary and can't seem to weave much imagery (and other "literary" stuff) into your work. WE CAN ALL DO IT, WITH A LITTLE BELIEF AND A LOT OF EFFORT.

I was trying to put no one off. Quite the opposite.

Believe in your own abilities and don't get put off by thinking, "I'm not as good as them," just because they can talk the talk. It's those who can walk the walk that get on in life. In this instance, it means it's those who write loads and read loads, and therefore practice loads. Writing is a craft and the only way to learn it is to just do it.

Lou

 

[jtmalone70]

Good Points

**********

 

[Guest]

Blimey, thanks for all that, jtmalone.

To pick up on your point about "knowing the rules". Yep, I completely agree. When I was talking before about writing in a way that you find comfortable, I wasn't talking about the technical side of writing, I meant the way in which you actually sit down and write (e.g. just sit and write out the first draft, or edit as you go, or whatever way works best for the individual).

I agree that it is very important to know the basic rules of grammar (at the very least). Without the basic tools of the trade, it's nigh on impossible to be successful at anything.

Also, to effectively break the rules, you need to know the rules in the first place. I take liberties with the English language in my own writing (for impact, effect, whatever), but I do know I'm doing it when I do it. If that makes sense!? LOL!

When you mentioned about many here writing as merely a hobby, that's the thing, most do, and I don't believe anyone should be put off by being made to believe they haven't got the ability to do it.

It quickly became much more than a hobby for me, but I enjoy even more now than I ever have done before. It's fun!

Thanks, again,

Lou

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

JT,

First-rate piece. Just one question: Will you adopt me? I'm housebroken. Honest.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Black Tulip]

JT,

First-rate piece. Just one question: Will you adopt me? I'm housebroken. Honest.

Rumple Foreskin

Shit!!! You beat me to it.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Shit!!! You beat me to it.

You've still got a chance. JT turned me down cold. I don't think she was convinced about my being housebroken.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[TheEarl]

In a nutshell, planning is very important to me. The trick is not to plan yourself bored.

Very sage advice. I have a third of a sci-fi novel sitting on my computer. Unfortunately I know everything that happens to the characters cause I had too much time to plan it. So I can't be arsed with them anymore; they're boring.

The Earl

 

[Winemaster]

picking up good stuff

I wanted to drop a line of appreciation here. There a great education for us beginners with each post. Keep sending messeges because this guy is taking it all in.
One thing I have to agree on is the line I read - read, read, read - write, write, write....and have to agree....it's very time consuming!