why is alcohol leagal and marijuana not

[SGTBIGDOG420]

why is alcohol legal and marijuana not

I used to be a bouncer and I must say I have seen a lot more stupid shit from drunks then I ever did from dope smokers besides the addiction factor (yes I know you can get addicted to pot as well its just like cigarettes) but its not like drinking where you have to do it till you see the world through a drunkin stuper and end up with a nasty girl who you would never have looked at without being drunk. I have done both I never got addicted to smoking but I damn sure did to booze hell I would not function with out my morning 6-pack (beer its not just for breakfast anymore) hell I would drink a case and a half every day. so I say we tell the powers that be to either legalize marijuana or outlaw booze. hell if we all get toghether on this issue they will listen.




Its 4:19 gotta minute.

 

[Rubyfruit]

Because we live in a fucked up, Christian-based, puritanical society, that's why.

 

[Guest]

 

[Calamity Jane]

they tried making alcohol illegal once upon a time. Made a lot of people filthy rich. And got a lot of people dead. But then it's the same now with illegal drugs. The government makes a hell of a financial killing off of them though, they can divert all that 'war on drugs' money into slush funds.

and just so you know, i've never woken up from a good drunk with an ugly, but stoned....

 

[p_p_man]

Hopefully weed will be legal in the UK soon..

The polkice have already been told to downgrade it...

Medical people are saying it's beneficial to arthritus suffers...

And the public mood is swinging round in support...

**hic** **puff** skuze me jus' goin' to be' now...**hic** **puff**

 

[Problem Child]

I just love Eve_of_Destruction...wherever did she go....

marijuana legalization thread

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Your right, Sarge. Comparing the behavioral effects and public health consequences of using the two drugs, there's no logical reason for one to be legal and not the other. Marijuana's gotten a lot of bad press over the years and its harms were exaggerated (not to say that it doesn't have them. It has plenty to negatives, but no more than alcohol). The harms of alcohol are great, but well-known. Part of the reason marijuana and other drugs are less accepted is because most people are much less familiar with them.

If the two drugs were brand new and we were just deciding what to do with them, I expect they'd both be illegal (but with the movement toward decriminalizing drug use in favor of viewing drug use as an illness rather than a crime, I'd expect both to be eventually decriminalized). If anything, marijuana should be the more socially acceptable drug as it at least has some legitimate (albeit more limited than perhaps publicized) medical uses, while alcohol is only used for the rare condition of methanol poisoning (and then the patient receives it via IV).

Public opinion is slowly changing on the issue. Many policymakers are have been advocating decriminalization for years, but politicians lag behind them because decriminalization lacks widespread popular support. People don't want to give up the notion of treating drug abuse as if it's a volitional act. Like you say though, if the public makes it clear it wants mj legalized, it'll happen. Probably not soon, but it'll happen.

 

[Guest]

 

[JazzManJim]

I can try to answer one.

Well, alcohol's another story, but, at least, the reason for Marijuana's illegality involves its effect on the human brain.

Marijuana use has lasting effects on the human brain. It is, very possibly, a gateway drug, meaning that its use lends itself well to the use of harder drugs. That's due to the drug's stimulation of the pleasure centers of the brain and the direct and lasting effect it has on brain chemistry. According to about a gazillion studies (freely searchable on Google), the effects involve needing greater and greater amounts to achieve the same high, short and long-term memory loss, brain activity during withdrawal nearly identical to those experienced during withdrawal from cocaine, heroin, or morphine.

So, marijuana is darned dangerous. It lends itself to direct dimished capacity, which can put other people in danger. I'm not saying wiether it should be legal or not, just my guess as to why it still is.

I admit alcohol does the same thing (or at least leads to diminished capacity). As for why it's now legal, all I can say is that we tried to make it illegal. All that got us was a lot of dead people and rampant crime.

Oh yeah, and the Kennedy family. Not to mention that the "Dukes of Hazzard" wouldn't have been possible without Prohibition. Do I need more reasons than those?

 

[Guest]

 

[Spinaroonie]

Cos paper was beginning to be made out of hemp so William Randolf Hearst, and his large Tree paper investments, decided that in his Newspaper to start a worldwide scare. HE claimed that Mexicans would kill people after smoking Marijuana. In congress he claimed that it might make people fall under the influence of Jazz, and it might make a black man look at a white woman twice!

 

[Angel]

It's really quite simple. Stock up on the Mary Jane. Don't get caught.


Happy, stress free inhalation of the ganj.

 

[Starfish]

Hey, I am a bong flamer. I can only make obscure references to this subject that none of you will understand.

Oh, and I have that minute you are looking for.

 

[Lost Cause]

Follow the money! If the government can't control it, and tax it, it's illegal! With it being illegal, the feds can confiscate your home and property, sell it, and fund their next raid. With it being illegal, the feds can kick down your door at three a.m., and kill you for defending your home. With it being illegal, they can arrest you and put you away, thus funding the law enforcement/judicial/correctional/parole scam!
So, it makes dollar sense and piss on the constitutional rights of the citizens.

Drug war = no fifth amendment/second amendment/fourth amendment/ten amendment, and eventually no first amendment.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Which is precisely why I stopped smoking pot when I had kids. Not because of the health concerns, or the idea of being a proper role model, but because i'm not willing to put them on the line for a little high.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I defy anyone to come up with plausible definitions of the terms "soft drug" and "hard drug". A psychoactive drug is a psychoactive drug is a psychoactive drug, isn't it?

I understand your argument, but all psychoactive drugs are definitely not created equal. Caffeine is a fairly minor stimulant. PCP frequently causes dissociative states, psychosis, and violent behavior. I've seen a guy on PCP break free of 4 or 5 strong male aides while we were trying to sedate him.

I find it funny that this is one of the few topics here at lit where there's very little disagreement, especially given that it's a fairly contentious issue among the general public. Maybe porn and drugs go together?

Lest this debate become too one-sided, I invite everyone to come to the medical emergency room at a big urban county or state hospital and observe the carnage, misery, destruction of families and relationships, and all-around human suffering brought about by alcohol and drugs. The notion that all our problems with drugs are caused by their prohibition is incredibly wrong (as is the argument that follows from it that these problems will be resolved by legalizing them). The problem with drugs is what Jazzman Jim properly addresses - the ability of these particular chemicals to hijack the natural evolutionarily designed brain processes that modulate pleasure, pain, and motivation. The drugs are the problem.

I agree with the consensus view that criminalization of drug users isn't the solution, though. In its place, treatment of the user as a person with a medical illness should become routine. However, I don't think we should abandon prohibition of selling recreational psychoactive drugs. Sale and distribution of drugs should still be illegal. One may become physically addicted to using drugs, but you can't say the same about selling it. We have to maintain some sort of deterrant to drug use if we're to avoid the problems drugs cause. We already have two industries (alcohol and tobacco) that are able to keep selling us products that harm us because those very products cause us to keep using them. Do we really want more of these industries?

 

[Spinaroonie]

Good God, an I like the only person to have never done it?

 

[T.H. Oughts]

Decades ago in the USA cotton farmers realised that Hemp farming was becoming very popular and may take over their own industry. Because the cotton growers had big power with the goverment they had them bann most strains. Since then the heath issue is something that keeps it with the law it has.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Good God, an I like the only person to have never done it?

Yes.

Go buy some weed and smoke it. All of it. Make sure you have plenty of chili cheese fritos and raspberry slurpees on hand before you light up.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Yes.

Go buy some weed and smoke it. All of it. Make sure you have plenty of chili cheese fritos and raspberry slurpees on hand before you light up.

Nope. I won't. I have 'personal reasons' to not to.

But I do like learning about it for some odd reason. For instance they could easily use it to power a car.

For a lot of good info visit: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2503/lyrics01.html

HOWEVER, I prefer it as an mp3. Look for "Grow More Pot" by Jellow Biafra. That man has such a gift for speaking. It's amazing.

 

[Guest]

 

[Spinaroonie]

BTW, my link above (and mp3) has a greater history of why it is illegal than I could type in my own words.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Re: You make some valid points but...

...I don't think that the illegal status of some psychoactive drugs deters many people from using at all.

I think you misunderstood my point. I totally agree that illegality of use is a very good deterrent (at least to those who have tried it before). Your analogy that my use of heroin wouldn't change with its legalization is specious. I'm a 4th year medical student who'll have his MD in 6 months and have seen numerous people OD and miserably withdraw from heroin. The point of criminalizing drugs isn't to keep those of us who understand the dangers of drugs from using, it's aimed at those who don't understand the dangers (of whom there are many). Nevertheless, this is an inconsequential point, as you and I seem to agree with that criminalization of use is counterproductive. I also believe criminalization of users feeds the myth that drug use is a willfull act. We only hold people criminally responsible for those wrongs they "choose" to do. Who would punish someone for behavior they had no control over? What would be the point?

In short, I believe drug users shouldn't be prosecuted, but treated instead. This would also decrease the "taboo" factor which you rightly point out contributes to drug use. Drug dealers, however should be pursued and prosecuted vigorously.

I recognise that illicit drug use causes serious amounts of harm in personal, societal, and financial contexts. However, I believe that such harms are "symptoms" of the "disease"(ie: the criminalty of illicit drugs).

Here is where I disagree with you strongly. The "disease" that results in the numerous social problems is primarily caused by the drug (or more accurately the way the drug alters the neurochemistry of the brain). The fact that we've criminalized a medical illness is simply a compounding factor. If you make heroin legal and either fail to restrict the supply of drug or fail to provide treatment, I can guarantee the number of overdoses, accidents, and drug-related attacks that we treat in the ER won't go down a bit. In the hospital I train at least 60% of ER visits are alcohol and drug-related. Of these, the vast majority are from alcohol use. Almost half of the patients we see wouldn't be there if not for this particular legal substance. These are thousands of cases a year in just my city alone caused by the substance, alcohol, not by any policy of criminalization.

Your points about the "career" of drug use are well-taken, though. Many users do tend to eventually "grow out" of their use. What I tend to see, though, is people who are former users who have wasted their lives pursuing alcohol and drugs to the exclusion of family, friends, and career and most have deep regrets.

It's a very complex issue and I certainly don't have all the answers, but from a perspective where I'm confronted with nothing but the devastation of addiction, I'm sick of seeing the addicts treated like they've chosen a life of crime. It's just frustrating to me to hear it argued that addicts' lives will be made better by making the substances that feed their suffering easier to obtain. It's an oversimplification of a problem that I think has its roots in a popular misconception of the illness. The disease is in the addict/drug interaction. That should be the focus of public policy.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: You make some valid points but...

 

[StondTmplPilot]

Follow the money! If the government can't control it, and tax it, it's illegal! With it being illegal, the feds can confiscate your home and property, sell it, and fund their next raid. With it being illegal, the feds can kick down your door at three a.m., and kill you for defending your home. With it being illegal, they can arrest you and put you away, thus funding the law enforcement/judicial/correctional/parole scam!
So, it makes dollar sense and piss on the constitutional rights of the citizens.

Drug war = no fifth amendment/second amendment/fourth amendment/ten amendment, and eventually no first amendment.

Believe me, if it were dollars and cents, Marijuana would be legal at this moment. The government could tax it like they do cigarettes and make a hell of a lot more off it than they do busting people and throwing them in jail.