Why do you like pain?

[Blue]

[Can't figure out how to delete posts so I'm just doing this]

 

[Raingirl85]

Wow, you've done a lot of speaking for other people. I suggest you speak for yourself from now on. None of this is universal. We all come to this with differences. There ARE actually people who like the pain even though it still registers as pain to them, and there are also people whose brains translate all pain as pleasure.

I do not like it so I can be "put in my place". You took what we all said and constructed an incorrect story about why we all like pain. I don't see any of what you describe in what I wrote.

My partner actually does very much like causing me pain. He happens to be an ethical person who would only ever do so with another person's consent. There absolutely ARE people who truly desire to cause others pain. You may not, and you may not be able to fathom it, but that doesn't mean the experience of others isn't real.

Basically, you couldn't be more wrong.

Agreed. And I don't think you overreacted. I found it offensive too, to dismiss what many different voices were expressing about the MANY reasons and motivations for why we enjoy pain play and try to package it as no more than the desire to be 'put in our place.'

 

[Nezhul]

I didn't say no one liked to inflict (physical) pain on others, I said most people don't, and if they do, it's rather unhealthy

You know, I'm kinda torn about that. One one hand, I am really weak-stomached when it comes to watching someone in pain, hurt or suffering for real. I would never want to inflict such a pain on anyone. Even hitting someone in a fight is kinda edgy for me because after I start thinking things. I often can't watch scarier news about war or terrorism, I can't watch movies like "Saw" at all, and even though I thoroughly enjoyed reading "The Hunger Games" it made me anxious at some points. I don't like seeing or inflicting pain.
But inflicting pain in a controlled safe environment, with a consenting girl and in a sexy way - is hot. Really hot. If there was consent, I would gladly tortured my girlfriend to tears and beyond. I wouldn't paint her black&blue only because I like her body too much, and those things heal kinda long-ish.
So who am I now, unhealthy? I don't think so. It's just that real-life pain and pain delivered in a sexual safe environment are totally two different things.

Before anyone asks, I'm kinda a switch and can enjoy both giving and receiving, thus I started this thread.

 

[sarabrowning]

A lot of it is psychological for me.. the giving up control, the excitement of punishment and being dominated. BUT there is definitely a physiological appeal also. I find that when I'm slapped or spanked the stinging, hot skin feels like every nerve is on fire so alive and all that heat suffuses me making every part of my body feel so intensely so that then when he touches me, kisses, licks, sucks, or fucks me it is completely heightened..also just love the mixing of pain and pleasure, like when cooking how you need to combine some salty to offset the sweet in a favorite dessert..or the delicious marriage of dark chocolate with cinnamon and hot pepper... it takes something great on its own (sex:chocolate) and elevates it.

Well said, Miss Raingirl! The key is to have it take your sexual pleasure to new heights without obliterating it.

 

[cascadiabound]

Yeesh... can you be any more overreacting.

I would suggest that people were (myself included) reacting to having an "executive summary" of the thread being provided by you here. Each of us have related our own personal experiences with and about pain. Which is as individual as we are in our own sexuality. Speaking for myself, I do not appreciate being "lumped" or "generalized" into others. And I also take exception to the idea that I like pain as a way of being "put in my place" Ick. Absolutely ICK.

We all do best here in BDSM talk when we speak FOR OURSELVES and avoid trying to speak for or about each other.
Just my opinion.

cb

 

[Raingirl85]

I would suggest that people were (myself included) reacting to having an "executive summary" of the thread being provided by you here. Each of us have related our own personal experiences with and about pain. Which is as individual as we are in our own sexuality. Speaking for myself, I do not appreciate being "lumped" or "generalized" into others. And I also take exception to the idea that I like pain as a way of being "put in my place" Ick. Absolutely ICK.

We all do best here in BDSM talk when we speak FOR OURSELVES and avoid trying to speak for or about each other.
Just my opinion.

cb

Exactly, you put it perfectly.

 

[DudeA]

I reacted as strongly as I saw fit. I don't look to you for permission to React strongly.

I still think you're wrong. It is possible to be a healthy well adjusted person and want to inflict pain on someone.

You overreacted... which caused you to read most of what I said in the wrong way. If anything, that's overgeneralizing, or thinking in extremes, it's either this or that, right or wrong. I didn't say all people were like this or that, I said most people were like that, those were just some of the possible explanations.

...I don't think there's anything inherently healthy about wanting to inflict physical pain on others (this is an interesting topic on its own). Can a person be healthy and still want to do that, yes, but the behavior isn't exactly healthy. If two people are consenting then it could be mutually beneficial, but I still wouldn't exactly call it healthy.

I would suggest that people were (myself included) reacting to having an "executive summary" of the thread being provided by you here.

...It's not really a summary of the people in this thread, it's more of a summary of people who would be labeled as either dom or sub. Or perhaps, those were just my observations. I'm also interested in finding out possible explanations for why people like pain.

 

[LallyH]

Yeesh... can you be any more overreacting.

I'm sure that there are people who actually experience pain as pleasure ("true masochism"), but I think that's rare


I didn't say no one liked to inflict (physical) pain on others, I said most people don't, and if they do, it's rather unhealthy.

Experiencing pain as pleasure isn't rare here

The infliction of pain that we discuss here is always with consent etc etc, but on that basis, why do you feel it is unhealthy for a sadist to derive pleasure from inflicting pain as the flip side of the coin that allows a masochist to enjoy it? Do you feel that the whole process is unhealthy?

 

[SpunThings]

You overreacted... which caused you to read most of what I said in the wrong way. If anything, that's overgeneralizing, or thinking in extremes, it's either this or that, right or wrong. I didn't say all people were like this or that, I said most people were like that, those were just some of the possible explanations.

...I don't think there's anything inherently healthy about wanting to inflict physical pain on others (this is an interesting topic on its own). Can a person be healthy and still want to do that, yes, but the behavior isn't exactly healthy. If two people are consenting then it could be mutually beneficial, but I still wouldn't exactly call it healthy.



...It's not really a summary of the people in this thread, it's more of a summary of people who would be labeled as either dom or sub. Or perhaps, those were just my observations. I'm also interested in finding out possible explanations for why people like pain.

Your need to work in generalizations is problematic and not helpful. Did you know that not all subs consent to pain, and plenty of people who like pain are not subs. In fact it is possible to be a dom that enjoys receiving pain.

 

[LegsOpenedWide]

I would never have put myself in the liking pain category once upon, but clamping my nipples has been a wonderful discovery. It hurts like fuck at the time but totally gets me going. It's like a direct link to down below and feels amazing.

 

[cascadiabound]

I would never have put myself in the liking pain category once upon, but clamping my nipples has been a wonderful discovery. It hurts like fuck at the time but totally gets me going. It's like a direct link to down below and feels amazing.

*nods*
Yes... Like there is an electrical wire connector from here to there. Yowza and ohhhhh YES!!!!

 

[midwestyankee]

Hmm, it seems like most people like the psychological aspect of pain more than the physical pain. I'm sure most people don't actually like pain, that's the whole point, you're not supposed to like pain.

And most people seem to like the feeling of being degraded, to be "put in their place", to be less than human or actually become more human, to be more tender. I think it's because most subs put check on their pride and arrogance, then try to get rid of them. If only they could be "put in their place", to have their feet on their ground then they could lose their pride and become more loving. It would also mean a sacrifice for their partner. And apparently, this is pleasurable and satisfying, in the same way for the doms that it's pleasurable and satisfying to inflict pain on others.

I don't think most people actually like inflicting physical pain on others, that's rather unhealthy. I think most doms do it because they think the sub likes it, but if they don't actually like it, then it would be a waste.

You're going to have to clearly define what you mean by "most people," "less than human," "unhealthy," and "I think" before anyone here will take you seriously. More accurately, I can't take anyone seriously who talks in such vapid, airy and meaningless language and, judging from the replies you've already received, I'm not the only one. If you do not understand how or why someone might eroticize pain then the appropriate thing for you to do in a discussion of the matter is to read, try to understand, and keep your mouth shut. Let the adults talk and maybe you'll learn a thing or two about sexuality, erotic.play, and maybe even civility.

 

[apom]

I actually think DudeA is right about the psychology of pain—ish. At least where I’m concerned. I do not enjoy feeling discomfort. As he says, I’m not supposed to. Like everyone’s, pain is my body’s mechanism for drawing attention to issues that potentially need fixing, like the shower jetting down my back suddenly turning scalding hot. It’s different when people get pleasure from hurting me, though. When that happens, everything feels absolutely right. It’s just how I’m wired. If that weren’t the case, pain would just be pain to me and I’d put a swift stop to things whenever someone pulled out the whip. By the same token, if a whipping brought me the same physical satisfaction as a good hard screw, I would probably whip myself all the time. But it doesn’t. The only time I get into corporal stuff is when someone is enjoying the yelps, the tears rolling down my face, the welts rising on my skin and all the other obvious evidence of my agony. It still hurts like hell, but the idea that someone is getting off on the fact is a mind fuck a thousand times more powerful--an emotion or a sensation or whatever you want to call it that I crave with ferocity.

Fulfillment is not specifically about pain for me, though. It's about people taking from me what they want, whatever that is, without regard for how it affects me or how I feel about it. Like, what I want and what happens to me don’t matter. I get to suffer the consequences, of course, but so does a pinata. I just bleed more and scream louder when you hit me. What you want may always involve making me scream, and that’s fine, but it doesn’t have to. If what you want is a perfectly manicured yard, a weedless garden, a spotless house and dinner on the table for you and your company when you walk in the door, that's all good too. As instructed, I’ll be gagged and shackled in the shed, silent and well out of view before you arrive. I know you’ll probably come get me when you’re headed for bed so I can clean up.

I know it takes two to tango, and I think what I seek is indeed a rare find, but I can happily testify that it does exist. There are definitely folks around who get off on using people and watching them suffer, and I am living proof that at least a few of us are eager to be used and suffer for them.

Where I disagree with DudeA is the idea that my disposition somehow makes me unhealthy. If I embrace my usefulness as my total worth, no differently than I accept being female, loving chocolate or any other fact of my life, how can it be wrong? I mean, I obviously value myself differently than lots of people value themselves, but that doesn’t make me sick. It makes me unusual, and if being unusual is okay with me, why does it matter to anyone else? Without condition, no absolutely means NO. What I don’t understand is why brows rise when I tell people that yes also unconditionally means YES. Being striped black and blue with a cat-o-nine is no less acceptable to me than someone clubbing a baseball with a bat. Isn’t that what counts?

I think I introduced the notion of being put in one’s place into the thread. I never expected it to draw such a strong reaction, but I certainly understand how the idea generalized as a sub thing could be offensive. That was not my intention. It’s definitely my quirk. It has nothing to do with checking my pride and arrogance, though. I always hesitate to post about this desire I have to seen as “less than human,” nothing more than another possession, to be a thing. It just sounds silly. But that’s how I see myself, and I feel like I’m where I belong when others see me that way too and treat me accordingly. That’s all.

 

[cascadiabound]

I think I introduced the notion of being put in one’s place into the thread. I never expected it to draw such a strong reaction, but I certainly understand how the idea generalized as a sub thing could be offensive. That was not my intention. It’s definitely my quirk. It has nothing to do with checking my pride and arrogance, though. I always hesitate to post about this desire I have to seen as “less than human,” nothing more than another possession, to be a thing. It just sounds silly. But that’s how I see myself, and I feel like I’m where I belong when others see me that way too and treat me accordingly. That’s all.

Thank you for this response apom. I found it illuminating.

For myself, I want to be clear that while pain does not equal being put in my place - I can see how that can be part of someone else's kink. I did not intend to cast aspersions on it with my personal negative reaction to it. If it works for you - more power to you. Not my place to say it is wrong. In fact I would be in error to suggest that it might be. It would be an interesting discussion to have - why this is the case for you... but I would not challenge it being the case for you. Does that make sense?

We all have our kinks and the things that seem to just "feel right" to us. I have stopped trying to understand the "why" of them.

 

[DudeA]

Experiencing pain as pleasure isn't rare here

The infliction of pain that we discuss here is always with consent etc etc, but on that basis, why do you feel it is unhealthy for a sadist to derive pleasure from inflicting pain as the flip side of the coin that allows a masochist to enjoy it? Do you feel that the whole process is unhealthy?

Well, I meant mostly the non-consensual version of inflicting physical pain on others. But I mean, I think this is an interesting topic. If you inflict physical pain on others without consent, then that would be called an assault. Or if done "legally", then it would be called something like "corporal punishment". An extreme example might be someone who enjoys torturing animals, which is obviously something without consent. And we'd expect such obviously sadistic people to be quite messed up in their heads, such that people who do that often end up being serial killers, etc. Inflicting non-consensual physical pain often occurs in various power relations, in situations where one has more power over others, such as parent-child, elder sibling-younger sibling, teacher-student, boss-employee, police/body guard-prisoner relations and so on. Although those kinds of people can turn into "doms" in relationships (whether it's consensual, semi-consensual or plain abusive), getting kick and pleasure out of humiliating or degrading their partners, using such degrading methods in bed. Obviously, the more healthy "doms" are not that way. They won't do anything without consent.

I'm not saying that doms don't enjoy inflicting pain on others, they obviously do. But I'm surprised that people think that it IS healthy... I mean if both sides are consenting and it's what they both want, then it "works", sure. It's mutually beneficial. But that's about it as far as that goes. But things go a bit deeper when we start talking about the "why"s of things. Obviously there are multiple interpretations and not everyone is going to be agree, because we're talking about subjective psychological explanations, and not physiological ones ("objective"). I have listed some explanations, which some people agree and disagree. Could the doms simply be venting their frustration? Could the subs have the tendency to sacrifice a little too much? Those are some of the questions on why it might not be healthy.

 

[DudeA]

I think I introduced the notion of being put in one’s place into the thread. I never expected it to draw such a strong reaction, but I certainly understand how the idea generalized as a sub thing could be offensive. That was not my intention. It’s definitely my quirk. It has nothing to do with checking my pride and arrogance, though. I always hesitate to post about this desire I have to seen as “less than human,” nothing more than another possession, to be a thing. It just sounds silly. But that’s how I see myself, and I feel like I’m where I belong when others see me that way too and treat me accordingly. That’s all.

Well for the record, I'm not saying that that's the ONLY explanation... It's just one of them. But that's the general gist of being a "submissive", though. It's about NOT being consciously superior to others. It's about being less than everybody else. It's about having an unassuming, self-effacing attitude, such as by saying things like "It's not in my place to say that's right or wrong..." "I won't judge others..." etc. So that's what it's meant by being "put in place". It makes them NOT feel superior to others, which is something that they avoid, or want to avoid doing.

 

[SpunThings]

Well for the record, I'm not saying that that's the ONLY explanation... It's just one of them. But that's the general gist of being a "submissive", though. It's about NOT being consciously superior to others. It's about being less than everybody else. It's about having an unassuming, self-effacing attitude, such as by saying things like "It's not in my place to say that's right or wrong..." "I won't judge others..." etc. So that's what it's meant by being "put in place". It makes them NOT feel superior to others, which is something that they avoid, or want to avoid doing.

Again with the speaking for others.

Your description of being a sub doesn't resonate with me at all. It is absolutely always my place to say what's right or wrong. I don't lose my sense of self when I submit. I did choose someone who largely agrees with me on what's right and wrong. However, this is off the topic of liking pain. Being a sub and liking pain are not necessarily linked.

Also, I find it strange that you feel the need to include the subject of assault and non-consensual acts into this discussion. That's like trying to assess the health of engaging in sex, and including rape in that assessment. Assault is not the same as consensual acts of S&M, and doesn't really belong in a discussion of why some people seek out consensual pain.

 

[ararejewel]

It reminds me that I can still feel something.

 

[Blue]

_____

 

[DudeA]

Huh?
Both partners generally receive untold amounts of pleasure out of it and the "why" of the matter is because they both enjoy it. How is that *not* healthy?
I've written and deleted 4 different replies to this before writing this part now because I can't wrap my head around exactly what it is you're saying.
State outright and in no vague terms what you think the fundamental problems with D/s is so we can address it.

How am I being vague? I think I'm stating things pretty clearly, although maybe I am purposefully making things vague, because some people here are very high-strung and take offense at anything and bicker endlessly about pointless things, like the "real" definition of X is Y! That's not correct! What you're saying is offensive, because it doesn't fit into my own self-image of being X. I don't want to be seen as someone with any problems. etc.

So anyway, I said that it was mutually beneficial if both people find it pleasurable, but that doesn't necessarily make the act healthy, when it comes to how they live their lives or how they deal with their problems, which I think, might be transferred into sexual spheres.

Ok, but suppose that it is healthy, or we're not talking about health, but we're just asking the "why"s, because isn't that what this thread is about? It's about why people like pain, and I'm just trying to offer explanations on the whys. I'm not really a fan of the more "mystical" explanations, like "I was born/wired this way" or "I just do, I don't need to explain why". Explaining why might increase or decrease your kink, who knows. But I'm just curious and I'm not really about that.

There is no "general gist". Somebody might be absolutely disgusted by the idea of degradation and somebody else might revel in it. That's completely not a universal trait.

Then that would make things pointless, because if you reduce an idea to the most absolute basic form/definition, then there's going to be a common ground. Saying "Being dominant makes me feel submissive" doesn't make sense. There must be some basic thing to the meaning of being "submissive". Some people may like being degraded (ok, probably most subs do), and some don't, but the basic idea is in the act of "submitting".

But anyway, I find this to be pretty pointless, because there are just some certain people on this board who will bicker about anything when you post one little thing, hijack the thread and argue ad infinitum about something so pointless and inconsequential, as if their lives depended on it... Actually, they're not really interested in arguing or debating, they just want to say "No! That's wrong! That's not correct!" and deny them and pretend that they have any power over someone... It's quite sad and pathetic and probably why many people get sick and tired and leave this board. And yes I realize that I'm kind of being a hypocrite lol.

 

[SpunThings]

How am I being vague? I think I'm stating things pretty clearly, although maybe I am purposefully making things vague, because some people here are very high-strung and take offense at anything and bicker endlessly about pointless things, like the "real" definition of X is Y! That's not correct! What you're saying is offensive, because it doesn't fit into my own self-image of being X. I don't want to be seen as someone with any problems. etc.

So anyway, I said that it was mutually beneficial if both people find it pleasurable, but that doesn't necessarily make the act healthy, when it comes to how they live their lives or how they deal with their problems, which I think, might be transferred into sexual spheres.

Ok, but suppose that it is healthy, or we're not talking about health, but we're just asking the "why"s, because isn't that what this thread is about? It's about why people like pain, and I'm just trying to offer explanations on the whys. I'm not really a fan of the more "mystical" explanations, like "I was born/wired this way" or "I just do, I don't need to explain why". Explaining why might increase or decrease your kink, who knows. But I'm just curious and I'm not really about that.



Then that would make things pointless, because if you reduce an idea to the most absolute basic form/definition, then there's going to be a common ground. Saying "Being dominant makes me feel submissive" doesn't make sense. There must be some basic thing to the meaning of being "submissive". Some people may like being degraded (ok, probably most subs do), and some don't, but the basic idea is in the act of "submitting".

But anyway, I find this to be pretty pointless, because there are just some certain people on this board who will bicker about anything when you post one little thing, hijack the thread and argue ad infinitum about something so pointless and inconsequential, as if their lives depended on it... Actually, they're not really interested in arguing or debating, they just want to say "No! That's wrong! That's not correct!" and deny them and pretend that they have any power over someone... It's quite sad and pathetic and probably why many people get sick and tired and leave this board. And yes I realize that I'm kind of being a hypocrite lol.

Yiu don't like the explanation others have given for themselves, so you have taken it upon yourself to give them a better explanation for why they like pain?

The common denominator for submissives is that they choose to cede some or all authority in relationship(s). It has nothing whatsoever to do with pain. Some submissives like pain, but not all people who like pain are submissive. You have come to the wrong conclusions.

 

[Nezhul]

you are going in circles guys. I suggest you just stop answering DudeA, because I see the same arguments and contra-arguments from both him and you for three times now. Just.... stop. For every 5 lines some of you write to him he makes a sheet of text that boils down to that he knows humans (you included) better than you.
There is a term for such people.

Stop interacting, IMO.

 

[Blue]

_____

 

[apom]

It would be an interesting discussion to have - why this is the case for you... but I would not challenge it being the case for you. Does that make sense?

Yes, perfect. Everyone’s different, and I’m all for toleration and acceptance. I’ve been me for (barely!) three decades now, though, so I never take offense at anything.

We all have our kinks and the things that seem to just "feel right" to us. I have stopped trying to understand the "why" of them.

Exactly. I try sometimes and it’s fun to talk about with like-minded people, but I think explaining why we like anything is like trying to explain being in love. It’s not something you choose. You just feel it, whether you want to or not.

 

[midwestyankee]

you are going in circles guys. I suggest you just stop answering DudeA, because I see the same arguments and contra-arguments from both him and you for three times now. Just.... stop. For every 5 lines some of you write to him he makes a sheet of text that boils down to that he knows humans (you included) better than you.
There is a term for such people.

Stop interacting, IMO.

Shorter, in translation: there are more idiots than people.