Why did the Mods of the site add in the "no politics, no religion" rule?

[Futakween]

I have another thread I posted in the General Discussion forum which is sort of a rant; nonetheless, one user suggested I post here. I'm curious to know why that rule was made, for what purpose because apparently another user said it was new. Is it religion or is it just Abrahamic religions? I feel like it really ruins the character development for characters who are created based off of cultures, race, ethnic group, language, etc. We can have our characters all of those things, but once we mention them being of a religion or the story evolves around their religion then it's not okay? Why would they make this rule? I can't speak for all people of my race, and I don't know how diverse this site is but its so difficult to speak about being my race without bringing in religion. And yes, some of the stories I write are on based on that; the one that got taken down was taken down because of the breaking the religion rule.

Do the site owners not realize just how much race and religion go hand in and hand and how its ludacris we can explore one, but not the other?

 

[Bramblethorn]

AFAIK the "no politics" rule was introduced in 2016. I would guess it came in response to the US election cycle, but unless @Laurel or @Manu feels like chiming in, we're all guessing here. It's not clear to me just how far the ban extends, and until you mentioned this I wasn't aware that stories were being taken down for religious content.

Out of curiosity, can you tell us something about how religion featured in your story? It'd be nice to have a better idea of where the line is.

 

[Voboy]

News to me.

I've got more than one story where religion is a central theme...

It's hard to do a story about fucking a priest without bringing in religion, and there's another character I write that has a sister who really wants to be a rabbi. Which is neither here nor there, except that it means my character can't work some nights because her sister can't take care of their brother.

Are you sure the stories ban religious content? It sounds to me as if the politics/religion ban is more likely to apply to this forum side, not story content...

 

[lovecraft68]

Considering their rules are next to impossible to find, and pick the rule and you'll find plenty of proof they're enforced half assed at best, I don't blame anyone for not being aware of any of them.

I'd never heard this one, but then again I stay away from both topics for pretty much the reason they give. We live in a time where even sports has become nothing but political messaging, let alone, what passes for entertainment in Hollywood(home of the rapist, the hypocrite the child molesters) I feel people need a break from polarizing BS

However, I wouldn't be me if I didn't bring up how Lit loved pushing lockdown stories back in 2020, glorifying something created due to a disease that was infecting and killing people across the country and of course became heavily politicized by both factions of what passes for leadership in the US

Guess they didn't consider that political because they profited from it.

 

[RetroFan]

Religion and politics have been a major factor in a lot of my stories and I've never had any problems getting them posted. Maybe if somebody wrote a story set in Germany in the 1930s that glorifies Hitler or an Incest Taboo story about a US president and his daughter where the characters were fictional but just a little too similar to an actual president and his daughter this might create a problem, but otherwise I couldn't see too much of an issue.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Considering their rules are next to impossible to find, and pick the rule and you'll find plenty of proof they're enforced half assed at best, I don't blame anyone for not being aware of any of them.

I'd never heard this one, but then again I stay away from both topics for pretty much the reason they give. We live in a time where even sports has become nothing but political messaging, let alone, what passes for entertainment in Hollywood(home of the rapist, the hypocrite the child molesters) I feel people need a break from polarizing BS

However, I wouldn't be me if I didn't bring up how Lit loved pushing lockdown stories back in 2020, glorifying something created due to a disease that was infecting and killing people across the country and of course became heavily politicized by both factions of what passes for leadership in the US

Guess they didn't consider that political because they profited from it.

There's always been some kind of polarizing B.S. going on; there never was a time when that wasn't true. Consider the Civil War. At least, for the most part, we're not shooting each other yet.

 

[KeithD]

If you want to know what the site owners think about anything, you really should ask them directly. I don't see how starting a controversial discussion about something none of us posting here can do a damn thing about is very constructive.

 

[tenyari]

I have another thread I posted in the General Discussion forum which is sort of a rant; nonetheless, one user suggested I post here. I'm curious to know why that rule was made, for what purpose because apparently another user said it was new.

Where is this supposed rule stated?

Nevermind that, found this:
https://www.literotica.com/faq/publishing/publishing-guidelines

• works that promote or focus heavily on politics or religion, or political or religious figures. Lit readers are bombarded with political disputes on other platforms and they prefer to avoid these types of divisive issues in their erotica.

Which brings up the question of in what manner you focused heavily...


I actually have some 'faith notes' in my upcoming 'Alien girl' series.


I am trying to NOT FOCUS HEAVILY on the topic, but I do bring it up because if Aliens refugees landed on Earth, religion worldwide would have questions... so in my story I set up a scene for just that, and decided to OPENLY NOT ATTACK RELIGION. To have some my Aliens actually embrace it, and then give a reason that they would.


I have one of my Aliens meet a priest and they come to realize that while the dogma of their two world's faiths are not in common, a lot of the 'live in peace and care for others' stuff is nearly word for word identical, and my Alien ends up embracing faith (something her ancestors had purged from her world in a move to shift blame over who had destroyed their planet).

I am setting up a premise that my Alien refugees re-embrace faith when they find the new planet that have landed on has many faiths that resemble those their ancestors had purged, much to the shock of their scientist handlers who thought their presence would spell the end of such things.

It comes up later again when the character speaking above reschedules a date because she has to go to Mass, confusing her human date who doesn't know why an Alien would be going to church.

I'll have to edit away some details, and keep it to just general faith.

Right now this thread has me fiddling over this section of the 'prequel' First Contact story for that series (this prequel is a lot less 'dialogue' and a lot more descriptive that the rest of it, so my plan is to post it last to be read by people who want to know the setting more). Bolding sections I am thinking about the phrasing on.

I'd been thinking about what my life might be like once they let us out when I spotted an older man outside the barricade in a black suit with a little white square at the neck. He was holding a beaded chain in one hand and fiddling with it with the other. What drew me to him was his intense stare and look of concern.

But what stopped me in my tracks was an ornament on that chain, it had a symbol that I recognized from our Earth.

I quickly found Carmine and had her escort me to the barricade. The man and I were separated by a plexiglass wall twice my height, but he still took a step back when he realized I was so intent on him.

"Carmine, who is that man?" I hurriedly asked.

"He's a Priest," she said. "I... this is difficult for me, I used to be very devout, but... well... it's just not rational and scientific now is it? And you... well... I can't imagine things will go well for them after all of this."

"I don't understand," I said. "And why does he have that?"

"Have what?" Carmine looked between me and the man. For his part he caught where I was looking and glanced at it and then me, taking a step forward. His expression went from concern to curious.

"I remember that from my studies of Earth, my Earth I mean. It's almost like the symbol of one of the religions we used to have," I pointed at the ornament on his chain.

"Used to have?" Carmine asked. "I guess your people abandoned faith?"

"It's complicated..." I hesitated. I wasn't sure I wanted to tell her where he could overhear. But I felt I should. The locals would learn eventually. They already knew we had come here because of our own failings. "Um... They um... it wasn't pleasant. You know my people had many failings. They... when our climate began to collapse, they blamed the failure on the religions rather than on those of greed and power. Teacher taught us that while the people with faith were not the cause, they were in fact pointlessly irrational. But..."

"Your world suffered greatly child," the man said. "Your existence has me questioning everything I ever held dear, and yet..."

I had Carmine bring him inside the barricade. We spoke for hours after that, throwing questions back and forth about the history of religion on our two worlds. We didn't have the same religions exactly. Something that Carmine noted with a smirk, initially.

But between the differences we found too many similarities. Details would swap around. The faith I knew of that had used his symbol was somewhere between the faith he held and one followed in another land. The faith he described as his had elements from three faiths of ours.

What bothered Carmine the most was that when we got to the details of the teachings of our faiths, we found that anything that seemed mean spirited or dogmatic was not consistent between our worlds, but anything that spoke to living in peace was uncannily matched. I had Teacher pull up passages from my ancestors varied holy books and we would find that, correcting for translation, some lessons could be matched word for word. Particularly those in several faiths promoting treating others with kindness and understanding.

While we couldn't draw out an exact map to say a certain set of connections showed some faith as being true, it all seemed to imply that my people had been wrong to dismiss faith, and Carmine found herself crying at the end, declaring a desire to embrace the faith she had once followed.

The man was still highly disturbed by my nakedness and constant state of arousal, but he seemed to understand it better when he realized my own discomfort in the issue. "Teacher raised us to the fashions of our parent's generation, which were very utilitarian, as covering as your suit, and designed to downplay differences in the sexes," I told him. "Then we got here and found ourselves like this. It has been a shock. I will admit I am enjoying it now. But I understand, more than you know. Then again, this condition we have almost seems designed to get us to be fruitful and multiply."

In the weeks after that we found ourselves sitting down with local Earth historians looking for any other commonalities. I think Carmen was trying to find something scientific to justify why there were so many religious overlaps. But that was the end of it. Outside of that our histories had very few things that could cross-relate.

For my part, I became very interested in looking into matters of faith. And in the years that followed many of us 'old Earth' humans joined various local Earth faiths. Any that were not dogmatic, that taught their practitioners to seek their own answers to the spiritual, found themselves flooded with converts from our ranks. A few new faiths trying to merge 'old Earth' and 'new Earth' faiths did spring up, but these were less popular as we had arrived only with history of our old faiths, and copies of their main books in Teacher's records, yet no one who could carry on the living part of a faith's teachings.​

 

[KeithD]

News to me.

I've got more than one story where religion is a central theme...

Me too. They've been posted.

 

[RejectReality]

Where is this supposed rule stated?

Nevermind that, found this:
https://www.literotica.com/faq/publishing/publishing-guidelines



Which brings up the question of in what manner you focused heavily...


I actually have some 'faith notes' in my upcoming 'Alien girl' series.

I have one of my Aliens meet a priest and they come to realize that while the dogma of their two world's faiths are not in common, a lot of the 'live in peace and care for others' stuff is nearly word for word identical, and my Alien ends up embracing faith (something her ancestors had purged from her world in a move to shift blame over who had destroyed their planet).

I am setting up a premise that my Alien refugees re-embrace faith when they find the new planet that have landed on has many faiths that resemble those their ancestors had purged, much to the shock of their scientist handlers who thought their presence would spell the end of such things.

It comes up later again when the character speaking above reschedules a date because she has to go to Mass, confusing her human date who doesn't know why an Alien would be going to church.

I'll have to edit away some details, and keep it to just general faith.

When it comes to Sci-Fi/Fantasy worlds, there's additional leeway with regards to a lot of things that would get a story bounced in other categories. From that general synopsis, my assumption is that the story would pass without watering down any of the religious elements. It reads more like "The golden rule is universal amongst sentient creatures" than getting into the weeds, which is where problems arise.

Where you get in trouble is blatantly mirroring current issues/figures related to them. If you have the king outlawing swords with pointed pommels because they're weapons of war not needed by the general populace, it's probably going to bounce. If the king is obviously Trump or Biden with a different name, it's probably going to bounce. If you have two competing religions in your world that bear an uncanny resemblance to Christianity and Islam, and cast one of them as evil masquerading as faith, it probably won't make it through the queue. The more you're writing activism/evangelism into the fiction, the more likely it is that it's going to get sent back.

 

[tenyari]

When it comes to Sci-Fi/Fantasy worlds, there's additional leeway with regards to a lot of things that would get a story bounced in other categories.

Where you get in trouble is blatantly mirroring current issues/figures related to them.

That's good to know.

I expanded my post above with the actual part of my story (in early draft form still) that had me thinking.

What I wanted to do was say "my weird Aliens actually end up embracing Earth's faiths".

If the news tomorrow was that 100,000 Alien refugees landed on Earth, seeking help... the Religions of the world would freak out. So I decided that I needed to write that scene in my story.

I've got another scene where some military folks go nuts... because that would also happen.

Beyond that these just appear in a 'prequel story' that is a 'less erotic, more deep dive' setting backpiece meant to be read after the 'kinky half comedy' stories have been read.

Your sword / pommel note is a little funny because I've often read that swords were restricted to certain social classes. To my knowledge that's only true of Japan though - elsewhere they were just too expensive rather than actually restricted. If someone was writing an historical story - it could actually end up highly relevant. And now it's making me remember that England had a counter-rule: all males needed to be trained in longbows. I am assuming they all had one too. English archers were among history's best as a result.

But I see what you're noting there - bringing up real world modern day conflicts over these topics, even by way of concealed analogies.

It's very easy to write a story where "all those people get what they deserved" and then sit there and rant when people get upset about your story.... I've seen it on other sites that lack rules against doing that.

 

[ElectricBlue]

AFAIK the "no politics" rule was introduced in 2016. I would guess it came in response to the US election cycle, but unless @Laurel or @Manu feels like chiming in, we're all guessing here. It's not clear to me just how far the ban extends, and until you mentioned this I wasn't aware that stories were being taken down for religious content.

Yes, that's when I saw the "no topical political content" ban harden - a sensible move, I thought, given the extreme partisan alignments that quickly appeared.

The "religion line" in the FAQ is news to me, but since I find neither politics nor religion even remotely erotic, I've never had the need to go looking.

 

[Handley_Page]

AFAIK the "no politics" rule was introduced in 2016. I would guess it came in response to the US election cycle, but unless @Laurel or @Manu feels like chiming in, we're all guessing here. It's not clear to me just how far the ban extends, and until you mentioned this I wasn't aware that stories were being taken down for religious content.

Out of curiosity, can you tell us something about how religion featured in your story? It'd be nice to have a better idea of where the line is.

As I recall, there was an increasing volume of vituperative traffic and their Loprdships created a thread (the Political) for them to do it in.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I'd be interested in reading the OP's story. PM me?

I would imagine the ban is to avoid evangelical stories thinly disguised as erotica (girl is tempted, resists, marries a good Christian man, rewarded with good sex, terrible things happen to everyone else...) There was a spate of cults handing out tracts along those lines a few years ago, which might have triggered it. 'You think you have a good sex life, but actually unless you become a JW you're hugely missing out!' kind of thing.

 

[shakna]

I rather recently had a story involving a cult published. I did try and be sensitive with it, but it demonstrates details that are true for many cults, and how difficult it can be to get out. The main character also retains their faith, whilst rejecting the cult, and that's a core feature for who they are.

So... Guess I broke that rule, then. Maybe the fact I didn't make that an erotic plot point, made it fine?

 

[Defluer]

Hmm, I guess I'll go delete the document in my Ideas folder where I sketched out the idea where the main character accidentally finds himself at a rally where people mistakenly get the idea that he's a son or grandson of X politician and the ladies throw themselves at him. Loosely based on that New Girl episode where Schmidt convinces people he's a Romn... Never mind.

 

[lovecraft68]

There's always been some kind of polarizing B.S. going on; there never was a time when that wasn't true. Consider the Civil War. At least, for the most part, we're not shooting each other yet.

The difference now can be summed up by 'blessed be the internet' specifically social media which is anything but social. Back before the interwebz, you had news-that was real news reporting facts, not agenda-newspapers that did the same(other than tabloids) and if you needed a break you just didn't read or watch. Also back then a civil conversation between people of opposing views was possible.

Today, social media is 24/7, people are addicted to it, can't stay off it. Its full of internet warriors who spew endless hate and bully because they know they won't get the beaten they deserve. The news is 20% fact, 30% spin, 25%hate and 25% fear, and in eitehr red or blue narrative.

They now encourage lies, hate, fear, and division, they have done away with middle grounds and independent thought. If you disagree with anything you're one of them. Them being the other side. Everything now is its always all. All democrats, all GOP, all Christians, all women etc....

There has never been a time like this, with this much hate and the 24/7 non stop exposure to it. In 2020 there were people who sat in front of hate spewing lying news outlets 24/7 and lost their minds, and have no desire or intention to get them back because whatever side you're on, you've been told the other side is full of hate but....your hating of them is okay.

So I agree there's always been shit going on, but never anything remotely close to this

Also...the reason lit made the rule in 2016 is their side lost. It was all fun when it was their side spewing hate and bullshit, but when the other side took over their answer was to stomp their feet, push out their lip, and eliminate free speech. Typical of their side of things.

For me, my side is my side based on my thoughts and opinions. I vote person not party, however have reached a point where this year I am clicking every independent box on the ballot. I'd rather cast a vote for someone with no chance of winning than be told I have to choose between red shit and blue puke.

Too bad I'm the minority in having my own mind when the majority are cattle.

 

[gunhilltrain]

The difference now can be summed up by 'blessed be the internet' specifically social media which is anything but social. Back before the interwebz, you had news-that was real news reporting facts, not agenda-newspapers that did the same(other than tabloids) and if you needed a break you just didn't read or watch. Also back then a civil conversation between people of opposing views was possible.

Today, social media is 24/7, people are addicted to it, can't stay off it. Its full of internet warriors who spew endless hate and bully because they know they won't get the beaten they deserve. The news is 20% fact, 30% spin, 25%hate and 25% fear, and in eitehr red or blue narrative.

They now encourage lies, hate, fear, and division, they have done away with middle grounds and independent thought. If you disagree with anything you're one of them. Them being the other side. Everything now is its always all. All democrats, all GOP, all Christians, all women etc....

There has never been a time like this, with this much hate and the 24/7 non stop exposure to it. In 2020 there were people who sat in front of hate spewing lying news outlets 24/7 and lost their minds, and have no desire or intention to get them back because whatever side you're on, you've been told the other side is full of hate but....your hating of them is okay.

So I agree there's always been shit going on, but never anything remotely close to this

Also...the reason lit made the rule in 2016 is their side lost. It was all fun when it was their side spewing hate and bullshit, but when the other side took over their answer was to stomp their feet, push out their lip, and eliminate free speech. Typical of their side of things.

For me, my side is my side based on my thoughts and opinions. I vote person not party, however have reached a point where this year I am clicking every independent box on the ballot. I'd rather cast a vote for someone with no chance of winning than be told I have to choose between red shit and blue puke.

Too bad I'm the minority in having my own mind when the majority are cattle.

lovecraft68, it's a Sunday morning on a holiday weekend, and I don't want to get into a complicated political/historical debate on what is supposed to be an erotic literature site. And yeah, I agree that social media has mostly been a very bad influence on people although I don't know how good the mainstream news was in the past.

But you did say, "There has never been a time like this, with this much hate and the 24/7 non stop exposure to it . . .
So I agree there's always been shit going on, but never anything remotely close to this."

So remotely like these?

Detroit 1943

Chicago 1919

So people may say, "1919, 1943 - ancient history, has no bearing on the present." And the number of people killed? About 38 and 34: small numbers by worldwide standards. There was radio in 1943, but in 1919 it was all newspapers and word of mouth.

So do you think I'm "loading the deck" by bringing up these events? Maybe you think I'm missing the point because only the present can be changed; the past is over. My own conclusion is that, as bad as it may be in 2022, it was worse back then.

 

[gunhilltrain]

It never seems to end, does it? Fortunately, these events tend to happen sporadically, or the country would have been destroyed by now.

Newark 1967

I was twelve and living across the river in New York at the time, so I remember this quite well. There was also a Democrat in the White House then, LBJ, and he had been enacting all sorts of reforms in the previous four years.

 

[RejectReality]

No politics has been in place long before 2016. I don't remember the exact date, but I did remember one specific rant about it here early on, and I was able to find it. From 2012.

https://forum.literotica.com/thread...ly-what-happened-to-freedom-of-speech.807224/

 

[SimonDoom]

Personally, I think it's too bad. There's an obvious intersection between erotica and politics and erotica and religion, and it seems odd to me authors can't explore that here. Some people don't like it, but that's true about anal and incest, too. Just tag the story "politics" and those who don't want politics with their porn can stay away.

I'm curious if anyone knows the answer to this: I imagine there is considerable leeway on this. Is that so? For example, if I tried to publish a story that had an obvious political message, but it avoided naming real people and parties, would I get away with it? How far does the religion ban go? Surely one can write a story in which a significant part of the story is a character's membership in a church or other religious organization?

I'm curious how far this goes. For example, could one publish stories like these:

1. A gay Catholic priest struggles with the dictates of his religion and his sexual orientation.
2. A pro-choice woman has a relationship with a pro-life man and the conflict over the politics of abortion is a theme of their relationship and the story.
3. A gay man in college struggles to reveal himself and to handle the reaction of his conservative father.
4. A woman gets involved in pornography and comes into conflict with her anti-porn feminist friends.
5. The daughter of devout, conservative Muslim parents struggles with them and their creed over her desire to be openly sexual.

To me, politics and religion are infinitely fertile grounds for interesting conflict and interesting stories. What flies and what doesn't?

 

[TadOverdon]

Well, to the upside, it's good to know that if Ayn Rand rose zombie-like from the grave tomorrow and started writing again she would not find a welcoming outlet hereabouts.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

The site bars is "works that promote or focus heavily on politics or religion, or political or religious figures." That's from the same list of rules that bars bestiality, torture, snuff films, pedophilia and so forth. https://www.literotica.com/faq/publishing/publishing-guidelines.

Not having read your tale or the rejection notice, it's hard to be certain, but there are lots of stories on Lit which feature, mention or include references to religion. From that, the key words here would seem to be 'promote or focus heavily'.

Nobody is entirely certain how the decisions are made, but best guess is that submitted stories are screened using a computer programme with human override. Every story has a report key, allowing readers to report stories they feel violate the rules and stories do get pulled on occasion. I get the impression that the owners are, for reasons of their own, fairly quick to pull stories which might in some way cause grief for the site. These days, religion is certainly a touchy subject.

Here's the thing. It's a private site, yes. We have to follow their rules, yes. But you get a chance to make your case, discuss it with the site owners.

I would suggest you go through your tale again, checking carefully to see if it 'promotes' or 'focuses heavily' on religion. Make such changes as you feel desirable and then resubmit. There's a box on the submission page which allows you to attach a note for the administrators. Make your argument there, perhaps that, yeah, religion is mentioned and there is some background religious conflict, but it's a love story and that religion per se is not stressed or promoted (word that however you wish). Or, if you wish, PM Laurel, the owner, and make your case in the PM. I've found Laurel to be quite reasonable.

 

[RejectReality]

1. A gay Catholic priest struggles with the dictates of his religion and his sexual orientation.
2. A pro-choice woman has a relationship with a pro-life man and the conflict over the politics of abortion is a theme of their relationship and the story.
3. A gay man in college struggles to reveal himself and to handle the reaction of his conservative father.
4. A woman gets involved in pornography and comes into conflict with her anti-porn feminist friends.
5. The daughter of devout, conservative Muslim parents struggles with them and their creed over her desire to be openly sexual.

It's going to be one of those subjective things. What I said about fantasy/sci-fi worlds applies to real world stories as well. The more you inject activism/evangelism, the more likely it will be rejected. The darker and more depressing it is, the more likely it will get sent back.

1 is iffy because it's a religious figure, and the Catholic church is forever in the news for very bad reasons.

2 sounds like a horror story, and with abortion as an especially hot button issue right now, I wouldn't give it long odds of passing.

3 doesn't sound like it would be a problem to me, so long as the fight with his father doesn't dominate and there's a happy ending. My one story in GM deals with a lighter version of this with the MC moving from the conservative midwest to the west coast. No confrontation with anyone. Just coming out of his shell after years of being in the closet.

4 is iffy, but I feel like the quick bullet point description you provide here isn't sufficient to make a judgement. Why did she get into porn? Is she enjoying it? Things like that. The bullet point as another thread running through a larger story might not be a problem. If that's the whole crux of the story, it's likely to get tossed back for the darkness angle. Again, a happy ending is likely to improve the odds.

5 is about the same as 3. If she ends up in a good place at the end, it has a better chance of passing.

 

[MrPixel]

5. The daughter of devout, conservative Muslim parents struggles with them and their creed over her desire to be openly sexual.

5 is about the same as 3. If she ends up in a good place at the end, it has a better chance of passing.

If realistically told, it won't fly. This kind of searching-for-self rebellion typically happens in the mid-teens. That obviously runs headlong into the 18-years-or-older rule.