Why did the Mods of the site add in the "no politics, no religion" rule?

[TarnishedPenny]

If realistically told, it won't fly. This kind of searching-for-self rebellion typically happens in the mid-teens. That obviously runs headlong into the 18-years-or-older rule.

It does indeed typically start in the mid-teens. On the other hand, as an individual gets older, they have increasing opportunity to see other things. A young woman raised in a strict household (of any religion) will have considerably more opportunity to see alternatives once she, for instance, goes to university or college. I wouldn't, in other words, write off the concept entirely.

Moreover, adults have more options. A 14-year-old generally has to live with their family, follow family rules, etc. An 18-year-old can live on their own, get a job, etc. It may be a hard thing for them to do in a cultural sense, but adults have more opportunity to carry through on their desires.

 

[SimonDoom]

Well, to the upside, it's good to know that if Ayn Rand rose zombie-like from the grave tomorrow and started writing again she would not find a welcoming outlet hereabouts.

See, I don't agree with that at all. I think that would be a lot of fun, just as I think it would be fun to see stories that express erotica from a Marxist point of view. There's tons of potential material with the views of Ayn Rand, who had all sorts of peculiar ideas about sex.

I understand wanting to keep partisan politics and stories that promote or attack specific politicians out of the Site, but not politics and religion on a more general level. I don't understand how the Site can purport to support free speech while sharply limiting the ability of authors to use their stories to express points of view. I don't see what the problem is. One always has the option of simply not reading the story if one doesn't like that sort of thing.

 

[SimonDoom]

If realistically told, it won't fly. This kind of searching-for-self rebellion typically happens in the mid-teens. That obviously runs headlong into the 18-years-or-older rule.

This isn't true. It's true for some, but not all. I've had friends who came out as gay or who explored new areas of their sexuality much later than that, well into adulthood. Generalizations like this are never true.

 

[JGittes]

If realistically told, it won't fly. This kind of searching-for-self rebellion typically happens in the mid-teens. That obviously runs headlong into the 18-years-or-older rule.

In a previous life, I worked for an international company in one of their Houston offices on the same floor as their training center. Frequently, young women from Middle Eastern countries would attend classes in full hajib, but clearly pushing the boundaries because they were in the US and could. The most striking woman wore a blue silk garment, one of the sexiest outfits I've ever seen. I doubt she would have gotten away with that in Saudi Arabia or Kuwait (I don't remember which was her home country) but in Houston, she felt safe.

 

[Battlewarrior]

My two cents here:
-Real life religions are generally icky to portray. Too positive a portrayal; it's evangelical, too negative a portrayal will bring its own problems. Factor in real life complications (a decent number of countries have anti-blasphemy laws; some even going so far as death penalty!) and I'd say steering clear from real life religions is the "safe" way to go.
-Fantasy/scifi religions are totally different though–so long as they don't mimick RL religions too closely. I've written a story where an Inquisitor of a polytheistic church loses faith and defects to the "heretical" branch before defecting back after being severely mistreated. She still doesn't have any faith, she still criticizes them–this doesn't seem to generate any issues.

 

[Voboy]

Hmm. Okay.

Based on what you people have uncovered, on the commentary here, and on what I (and others) have had successfully published, I think erotica based on a religious/political context or in a religious/political setting, or involving religious/political characters or situations, is just fine.

UNLESS!

It's a piece designed to be polarizing to readers, or it engages in advocacy or proselytizing. Satire might also be a grey area, especially with easily-identifiable characters.

So when I wrote about a seduced deacon who struggled with his faith before screwing a woman over the back of a pew whilst under the eye of the crucifix over the altar? Just fine, since I took pains not to condemn or judge his conduct in light of his beliefs, thus critiquing those beliefs, thus alienating readers.

I think that's probably the "golden rule" here: don't write pieces that could alienate your readers.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Hmm. Okay.

Based on what you people have uncovered, on the commentary here, and on what I (and others) have had successfully published, I think erotica based on a religious/political context or in a religious/political setting, or involving religious/political characters or situations, is just fine.

UNLESS!

It's a piece designed to be polarizing to readers, or it engages in advocacy or proselytizing. Satire might also be a grey area, especially with easily-identifiable characters.

So when I wrote about a seduced deacon who struggled with his faith before screwing a woman over the back of a pew whilst under the eye of the crucifix over the altar? Just fine, since I took pains not to condemn or judge his conduct in light of his beliefs, thus critiquing those beliefs, thus alienating readers.

I think that's probably the "golden rule" here: don't write pieces that could alienate your readers.

I think this is a reasonable take. I've had a story up for a couple of years about a woman having a brief affair with a priest. It opens with at mutual masturbation scene in a confessional...

But the story is about them as people, without any heavy focus for or against the religious aspect of his life.

 

[Futakween]

That's good to know.

I expanded my post above with the actual part of my story (in early draft form still) that had me thinking.

What I wanted to do was say "my weird Aliens actually end up embracing Earth's faiths".

If the news tomorrow was that 100,000 Alien refugees landed on Earth, seeking help... the Religions of the world would freak out. So I decided that I needed to write that scene in my story.

I've got another scene where some military folks go nuts... because that would also happen.

Beyond that these just appear in a 'prequel story' that is a 'less erotic, more deep dive' setting backpiece meant to be read after the 'kinky half comedy' stories have been read.

Your sword / pommel note is a little funny because I've often read that swords were restricted to certain social classes. To my knowledge that's only true of Japan though - elsewhere they were just too expensive rather than actually restricted. If someone was writing an historical story - it could actually end up highly relevant. And now it's making me remember that England had a counter-rule: all males needed to be trained in longbows. I am assuming they all had one too. English archers were among history's best as a result.

But I see what you're noting there - bringing up real world modern day conflicts over these topics, even by way of concealed analogies.

It's very easy to write a story where "all those people get what they deserved" and then sit there and rant when people get upset about your story.... I've seen it on other sites that lack rules against doing that.

A lot of people commented but I'll reply to this one since it covers the main question many people are asking: What was the story about?

The story was about a Jewish girl who falls in love with a black futa(nari) girl. It was banned first submission because I had to make them of age, but the second submission, it was posted. It was up for about a week or two with good views and ratings. Then I discovered it was taken down. I was sent a message stating someone(s) reported it because of the following rule.

In the story, the Jewish girl and black girl who is Catholic talk about their religion; the Jewish girl struggles with her feelings for the black girl because there are no futas in Judaism and she can't be with this woman. The Jewish girl also talks about figures from the Torah. The black girl talks about figures from her voodoo teachings due to her family practicing it as well as Catholicism.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think that's probably the "golden rule" here: don't write pieces that could alienate your readers.

If that's how the site owners and the majority of people here feel, OK. The site owners want to please their customers. They're entitled to do that, I suppose.

But I think "don't write pieces that could alienate readers" is a terrible piece of advice at a site for fiction. Art is SUPPOSED to provoke, alienate, challenge, parody, insult, satire, criticize--to challenge and promote change in the status quo. Erotica is a PERFECT vehicle for doing so, because it concerns a subject matter that exposes the hypocrisy, absurdity, corruption, stupidity, small-mindedness, prudishness, discrimination, and bigotry that underlie so much of conventional politics and religion.

Oftentimes, I want to post stories that I know will go down easy with most of my readers. And sometimes I want to smack them in the face. Both are legitimate artistic goals, IMO.

 

[Futakween]

I'm also in the mist of writing another story that is about done; it is a pegging story and also interracial. I plan to put it in the fetish section because it is about pegging. Nonetheless, the woman who is Somali American is Muslim. The story doesn't evolve around her being Muslim but it is the reason she decides to have a cut dildo versus one with foreskin.

 

[KeithD]

I think its all in how partisan or ranty you get with either politics or religion on what you can include on either/both in a story posted to Literotica.

Under sr71plt, I placed with a story in the 2016 April Fool's contest with a story having both politics and religion and dealing with the hypocrisy in both. It was pretty directly connected with the death of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. bringing in gay lifestyle and politics and pretty clearly showing a political orientation.

https://www.literotica.com/s/all-fools-day-foolery

I've written about forbidden love between those of different religions and I often write about partisan politics and the hypocrisy of it.

I engage in partisan politics. I just don't rant partisan politics or religious prejudice in stories or on the AH.

As is often the case, this thread is pushing too far on what can't be included in a story posted to Literotica.

 

[Futakween]

As is often the case, this thread is pushing too far on what can't be included in a story posted to Literotica

I think its because the MODs left this religion and political rule way too broad; there's also inconsistencies since some stories stay up while others don't. I also think they may be some bias when it comes to Abrahamic religions vs non-Abrahamic religions. If the story didn't have the Jewish woman talking about her faith but the black woman did hers which is a mixture of voodoo/hoodoo and Catholicism, a take on the Creol and Spanish Voodoo-Catholicism which is very prevalent among those of African and Spanish descent, especially in the south then I'm sure the story would have stayed up.

A lot of my writings are based on this belief system since I was raised and grew up as such so it sucks that I have to tone it down when it comes to my characters when posting on here. Race and religion is heavily tied into black and Latin culture and the MODs were very color, if not even racist, blind to make this rule, I think.

 

[KeithD]

There are no "MODS" (plural) dealing with any of this. The MODs (plural) have nothing to do with the story selection. That's just the site editor, Laurel. And I haven't seen any MOD on the discussion board (except for the Political board, which is moderated directly by Laurel) doing much of anything in deleting comments on the board either. There's at least one posting to this thread that goes beyond the pale in partisan ranting, and it won't be removed. But most posters to the AH are good about not rabidly ranting all by themselves without site intervention.

I question how many stories are being rejected for this. That there are a significant number isn't reflected in discussion board threads on rejection (certainly not anything like rejection for underage).

Keeping in mind the basic literary reality that you cut your readership in half by showing strong partisanship on any topic, I've felt no constraint on including politics, religion, or any lifestyle in stories submitted here and they've all been posted.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think its because the MODs left this religion and political rule way too broad; there's also inconsistencies since some stories stay up while others don't. I also think they may be some bias when it comes to Abrahamic religions vs non-Abrahamic religions. If the story didn't have the Jewish woman talking about her faith but the black woman did hers which is a mixture of voodoo/hoodoo and Catholicism, a take on the Creol and Spanish Voodoo-Catholicism which is very prevalent among those of African and Spanish descent, especially in the south then I'm sure the story would have stayed up.

A lot of my writings are based on this belief system since I was raised and grew up as such so it sucks that I have to tone it down when it comes to my characters when posting on here. Race and religion is heavily tied into black and Latin culture and the MODs were very color, if not even racist, blind to make this rule, I think.

You can always write it, slap together a cover and sell it as an e-book. Good stories should never be watered down due to the personal whim of a platform.

 

[Futakween]

That there are a significant number isn't reflected in discussion board threads on rejection

Hence why I think the person who reported it may have been racist since even though this rule is there, it doesn't seem very moderated consistently.

As for cutting my audience; that's not important to me. My niche is futanari, pegging, lesbian strapon sex, and big clits. All those into the following genres will read and like my stories.

 

[Futakween]

You can always write it, slap together a cover and sell it as an e-book. Good stories should never be watered down due to the personal whim of a platform.

That's the plan for that specific story.

 

[KeithD]

As for cutting my audience; that's not important to me. My niche is futanari, pegging, lesbian strapon sex, and big clits. All those into the following genres will read and like my stories.

Not if, as a side issue, you have your protagonist making strong partisan political statements, I don't think. Which is rather the point. In the current highly charged atmosphere, half of those even loving lesbian strap-on sex will, I think, click out of your story.

 

[Futakween]

Not if, as a side issue, you have your protagonist making strong partisan political statements, I don't think. Which is rather the point. In the current highly charged atmosphere, half of those even loving lesbian strap-on sex will, I think, click out of your story.

Meh, that's cool. At the end of the day, I write for me. If they stick around(which they do) then cool, if not then cool. Maybe if the story wasn't popular and highly rated, I'd take your word for it. But the story was highly popular, highly rated and HOT.

You can win some, some of the time but you can't win them all, all of the time.

 

[KeithD]

Fine. Everything has its place, though. I don't see much of a place for political polemics in erotica myself. Those who do will get the response they get. Doesn't bother me. My stories don't shy away from including political or religious elements, I haven't hedged on what I put in them for any concern about externals, and I've never had a story rejected here on the basis of treatment of politics or religion. It may have something to do about living in balance and not needing to push my politics on others in erotica story writing.

And, again, I think writers shy away from submitting what they could get posted on Literotica by reading discussion threads like this and getting a false message on what can/cannot be posted to the Literotica story file.

 

[tenyari]

5. The daughter of devout, conservative Muslim parents struggles with them and their creed over her desire to be openly sexual.

That was more or less the outline description of a character in my longest story that was never posted to this site (they were in high school) when I wrote it 20 years ago.

By the time I got to writing the scenes for that character I edited most of this out and she became just ab observer of the other character's antics who somehow managed to avoid being any any erotic moments of her own.

I just felt there was no way I or anyone else could write such a character without it reading like an attack on that faith.

I wish I had found a way to age all those characters up to about age 19 instead of 17, and plant them in college - because it was a good story but I more or less blew it up in a 'gang drive by' when I got disgusted with my own setting near the end of writing.

But on the religion note... yeah. Some hot potatoes are best left alone.

I'm now struggling with the best way to write a character that is 'allergic to wearing any clothes' that then finds faith. And the solution seems to be to be extremely vague and make generalizations about 'positive love angles of faith' (as I grew up with, in a group that was about peace, love, and accepting differences) rather than restrictive ones.

The story was about a Jewish girl who falls in love with a black futa(nari) girl.

In the story, the Jewish girl and black girl who is Catholic talk about their religion; the Jewish girl struggles with her feelings for the black girl because there are no futas in Judaism and she can't be with this woman. The Jewish girl also talks about figures from the Torah. The black girl talks about figures from her voodoo teachings due to her family practicing it as well as Catholicism.

I suspect your situation occurred because of level of detail and doing deep dives into figures from each faith. The moment we start doing deep dives - we risk being incorrect or landing upon areas of dispute between the faiths. Particularly in areas relating to sexuality / sex / etc - devout people often look at their teachings and find polar opposite stances. Writing a story that dives right into there is going to land it in controversy. Even I guess, with a sciFi element like futa.

 

[tenyari]

Nonetheless, the woman who is Somali American is Muslim. The story doesn't evolve around her being Muslim but it is the reason she decides to have a cut dildo versus one with foreskin.

See I wouldn't even go there. I would just say the character has a dildo of a given color or size and not give it details that are not particularly necessary - especially not if the character's reason is religion based.

Under that old advice that you should remove 8-10% of a story out in editing - focusing on the parts that don't move the plot. I suspect this detail would fall in there and be best removed.

I actually had a tangential note in my story where my 'aliens' (who are basically green humans with pointy ears - played for easy erotica and to drive home that the stories are not meant to be 'science journals') are horrified when they discover humans have male and female circumcision - referring to it as mutilation / mayhem (mayhem: [noun] willful and permanent deprivation of a bodily member resulting in the impairment of a person's fighting ability. willful and permanent crippling, mutilation, or disfigurement of any part of the body).

This topic makes me realize that 'side comment' serves no plot purpose and is best deleted from my story.

 

[Voboy]

If that's how the site owners and the majority of people here feel, OK. The site owners want to please their customers. They're entitled to do that, I suppose.

But I think "don't write pieces that could alienate readers" is a terrible piece of advice at a site for fiction. Art is SUPPOSED to provoke, alienate, challenge, parody, insult, satire, criticize--to challenge and promote change in the status quo. Erotica is a PERFECT vehicle for doing so, because it concerns a subject matter that exposes the hypocrisy, absurdity, corruption, stupidity, small-mindedness, prudishness, discrimination, and bigotry that underlie so much of conventional politics and religion.

Oftentimes, I want to post stories that I know will go down easy with most of my readers. And sometimes I want to smack them in the face. Both are legitimate artistic goals, IMO.

It's not "my advice." It's "my take on the site owner's guidelines."

A subtle difference, maybe, but an important one.

You and I can believe in provocative art, or not. But if the site owners don't want political or religious provocation, well, it's their circus.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The story was about a Jewish girl who falls in love with a black futa(nari) girl. It was banned first submission because I had to make them of age, but the second submission, it was posted. It was up for about a week or two with good views and ratings. Then I discovered it was taken down. I was sent a message stating someone(s) reported it because of the following rule.

In the story, the Jewish girl and black girl who is Catholic talk about their religion; the Jewish girl struggles with her feelings for the black girl because there are no futas in Judaism and she can't be with this woman. The Jewish girl also talks about figures from the Torah. The black girl talks about figures from her voodoo teachings due to her family practicing it as well as Catholicism.

Huh. One of mine (Copper Coin) is about a lesbian romance between an atheist and a Muslim. Part of that is them talking over their religious differences and how the Muslim character reconciles her orientation with her religion, as well mentioning prejudice she experienced from the campus LGBT+ group. I haven't had any complaints about that one.

I'd be curious to know what made the difference with yours. Maybe the futa angle pissed some people off?

 

[SimonDoom]

It's not "my advice." It's "my take on the site owner's guidelines."

A subtle difference, maybe, but an important one.

You can I can believe in provocative art, or not. But if the site owners don't want political or religious provocation, well, it's their circus.

Fair enough. I didn't say, specifically, that it was your advice, but whether it's the site's advice or the advice of other authors, I think it's wrong. I think it's a terrible attitude with regard to fiction. And I want the site owners to know that some of their contributors and participants, at least, enjoy controversy and don't want to avoid it.

 

[colddiesel]

Perhaps the op should be sentenced to a term of reading the Politics Board for a week. That should answer his /her questions.