Why capitalism doesn't and can't work

[A Desert Rose]

70/30

Christ.... I will read this missive over dinner tonight. ~smiling~

 

[70/30]

Re: 70/30

Christ.... I will read this missive over dinner tonight. ~smiling~

It is just a speech from Colin Powell, conservativism doesn't have to mean cut-throat. I think the average American could and would follow someone like Powell or someone slightly left of him. Redwave and Uncle Bill are outliers and we do give them a voice on the board but neither puts out a realistic political system. I'm all for cutting pork and campaign finance reform, you just have to spend money to ensure opportunities for quality educations and you don't shit in the bed you have to sleep in. The people that are left behind won't be paying taxes or doing minimum wage labor, they'll be robbing, looting, killing, and then they'll be in prison. Hardly efficient if you ask me.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Please

do not ever think that I don't find your information (sigh, there's that dreaded double negative again) worth reading. I do. And I do read it. I don't always agree with it and those areas I don't agree with are the ones I address, albeit not always as intelligently as others. ~smiling~

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Re: About regulating business

The more governmental controls that are placed on the business owner, the more cost is incurred (OSHA is a great example) and the more costs are incurred to the business owner translates to higher prices to the consumer and eventually, more employee layoffs. This is so simple to understand.

These are very expensive and rife with fraud. I don't mind helping people who earnestly need help and will willingly donate money to them. The problem is that there's so much fraud. The health tax in California a few years ago was outrageously high. They allowed "stress" related disability pay. It wasn't quite as high as salaries, but something like 80%. You could get a note from your chiropractor as justification so many, many people decided that not working and collecting 80% was not a bad tradeoff (vs. working and getting 100%).

 

[REDWAVE]

OSHA

Oh my God-- how terrible that the wicked government should force employers to provide safe working conditions for their employees! Why, those ungrateful wretches should be happy to lose a few fingers or toes, or an eye, so their employers can squeeze out a few more pennies of profit!

 

[A Desert Rose]

New Thread Please?

Let's talk OSHA....... please. I am really anxious to hear everyone's opinion on this policing system.

 

[REDWAVE]

So start one

So why don't you start a new one yourself, ADR? It's a fairly specialized subject, though. You might not get that many replies.

BTW, toes are toes; they're neither capitalist nor socialist. That's all in the head.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: So start one

So why don't you start a new one yourself, ADR? It's a fairly specialized subject, though. You might not get that many replies.

BTW, toes are toes; they're neither capitalist nor socialist. That's all in the head.

Those pretty toes belong with an ugly mind, remember? ~smiling~

And no, I will not start a thread.... No one posts to them. They have all sunk and died up to this point.

 

[REDWAVE]

Well, maybe your mind isn't really all that ugly after all. You're just misguided and confused.


Anyway, they say opposites attract.

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: 70/30

Redwave and Uncle Bill are outliers and we do give them a voice on the board but neither puts out a realistic political system.

I'm going to be very diplomatic here. Laurel and Manu founded this site on the concept of free speech. I don't know who the "we" are that you speak of, but I doubt that you're one of them.

I'm all for cutting pork and campaign finance reform, you just have to spend money to ensure opportunities for quality educations and you don't shit in the bed you have to sleep in. The people that are left behind won't be paying taxes or doing minimum wage labor, they'll be robbing, looting, killing, and then they'll be in prison. Hardly efficient if you ask me.

And that is the point. Privately run education systems yeild far better results at a lower cost. They always have. Public education started in Boston so that the entrenched blue bloods wouldn't have to send their kids to school with the "damn Irish". The entire foundation of public education is based on discrimination. That's how it still works.

The people that turn to robbery and looting will be shot in the commission of their crimes by an armed citizenry. Notice the stores that weren't looted during the Rodney King riots?

Minimum wage is a cruel joke. Always has been. This past spring the last minimum wage jump kicked in. I was in a 7-11 getting a snack (hot dog) for lunch. The very day the wage hike kicked in the 1/4 lb hot dog jumped from $1.39 to $1.59. (About a 13% increase in price as compared to about a 4% increase in wages.) I asked the girl at the register how she liked her pay raise. She said, "It's great, I'll now have more money to spend on 'extra's'." I pointed out that both her store, and all the others had raised their prices and then asked her how much extra she expected to have. She almost broke down in tears. Yep, great stuff that government interference in the economy.

Every employee costs an employer approx. 130% of their paid wage in government overhead for tax purposes. That means if you are making $50K. a year, you are costing your employer $65K a year. That does not include benefits except vacation (two weeks assumed here.) Do you think that some of these employee's could put that money to better purposes?

Add to that the fact that the average tax burden on the US citizen is 40%. Much higher is some areas obviously. That means that while the cost to the employer is $65K/year. The actuall spendable income of the employee is only $25K/year.

I'd like to know which taxpayer out there that is making $50K a year really thinks they are getting $40K/year services and benefits from the government. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Ishmael

 

[A Desert Rose]

Well, maybe your mind isn't really all that ugly after all. You're just misguided and confused.


Anyway, they say opposites attract.

Have you been reading PC's thread and got ideas about us? ~smiling~
Might be pretty frightening spending time with my mind, pal.....

 

[A Desert Rose]

oh geeeze, I can't even read all this serious stuff til the end of the day.....

 

[REDWAVE]

Drat!

Darn you, Ishmael-- here I am trying to flirt with Rosie, and you still want to argue politics!

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Drat!

Darn you, Ishmael-- here I am trying to flirt with Rosie, and you still want to argue politics!

LMAO ah shucks......now im all a-giggle....

 

[Sandia]

Ishmael: National Defense is the most expensive program in the federal government, after social security. All social programs put together - Medicaid, food stamps, supplemental security income, unemployment, and public health programs - make up 16% of the federal budget.

Source: the last page of my 2001 1040 instruction form.


If we wanna cut taxes, we oughta spend less on war.

 

[Sandia]

Re: Drat!

Darn you, Ishmael-- here I am trying to flirt with Rosie, and you still want to argue politics!

Redwave, I thought you were gay?

(Dammit, leave our gurls alone!)

 

[REDWAVE]

Gay?

Well, yeah, most of the time I'm pretty cheerful . . .

But seriously, I'm bi.

 

[freshrope_69]

Redwave!! A thought!!


I don't know of any political system that has worked perfectly in humankind's recorded history. When you deal with any political ideology, political system and definately humans, you are dealing with all sorts of emotions and characteristics. Some are good and some are bad.



So no political system / ideology is going to be perfect as long as there are humans.

I would much rather be living in a society where the people can affect and change the system peacefully when it strays off-course, ...

I know of no communistic system that has existed on earth in recorded human history where it didn't eventually turn into a basic dictatorship...

I'm not going to say the USA's government is perfect, because it isn't. But at least under our form of government we have avenues and choices we can make to make changes in our government if we don't like it.


What makes you think any type of equitable political system is easy to obtain and then retain? It constantly requires extreme vigilance and responsibility...

We have to make our system work. It doesn't work all by itself. No form of government works by itself. To make our democracy work, requires each of us to remain educated on issures, to be vigilant and to take responsibility.

No, it is not easy! But at least I can choose to strive to make it work...

Guess what, Redwave? I choose not to take responsibility for you........ you are going to have to do that for yourself, bud!!!!!!

I totally agree....

 

[phrodeau]

Re: Re: Re: 70/30

Originally posted by Ishmael (edited)
I'd like to know which taxpayer out there that is making $50K a year really thinks they are getting $40K/year services and benefits from the government. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Ishmael

I do! I do!

I've got good roads to drive on, with well-maintained traffic signals and every driver certified with my safety in mind. The gas I buy won't harm my engine. The roads are well-lit and regularly cleaned, and I never have to worry about floods with the substantial sewer system.

I can be sure that my drinking water is clean and healthy, and my food meets a standard of purity and nutrition.

When I need help in an emergency, I get it regardless of my credit rating.

The schools for my children are well-maintained and responsive to their needs.

There are clean and safe public parks that I don't need a membership to enjoy.

All this and more, and I still have money left for everything else.

 

[Ishmael]

Ishmael: National Defense is the most expensive program in the federal government, after social security. All social programs put together - Medicaid, food stamps, supplemental security income, unemployment, and public health programs - make up 16% of the federal budget.

Source: the last page of my 2001 1040 instruction form.


If we wanna cut taxes, we oughta spend less on war.

16% of the federal budget is spent on defense.

http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2002/pdf/guide.pdf

See chart 2-7.

That accounts for $6.4K of the $40K.

48% of the federal budget is spenty on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and other entitlements.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 70/30

I do! I do!

I've got good roads to drive on, with well-maintained traffic signals and every driver certified with my safety in mind. The gas I buy won't harm my engine. The roads are well-lit and regularly cleaned, and I never have to worry about floods with the substantial sewer system.

I can be sure that my drinking water is clean and healthy, and my food meets a standard of purity and nutrition.

When I need help in an emergency, I get it regardless of my credit rating.

The schools for my children are well-maintained and responsive to their needs.

There are clean and safe public parks that I don't need a membership to enjoy.

All this and more, and I still have money left for everything else.

Yeah, right. Hate to tell you this, but we had that in the 1950's when income tax was somewhere around 9%. History is a real bitch.

Ishmael

 

[phrodeau]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 70/30

Yeah, right. Hate to tell you this, but we had that in the 1950's when income tax was somewhere around 9%. History is a real bitch.

Ishmael

And what were the property, fuel, school and other taxes from that time?

And when you say a person taking home $50K spends $40K in taxes, what taxes do you refer to?

Statistics are a real bitch, too.

 

[A Desert Rose]

You know....

It's going to take me all night to catch up on all this reading......

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 70/30

And what were the property, fuel, school and other taxes from that time?

And when you say a person taking home $50K spends $40K in taxes, what taxes do you refer to?

Statistics are a real bitch, too.

Don't know what fuel taxes were but gas ranged from $.16 to $.22 a gallon. School taxes varied wildly back then too. Other taxes were substantially lower.

All taxes. Federal, state, and local. The 40% is a national average number, as stated.

Ishmael

 

[miles]

Ishmael: National Defense is the most expensive program in the federal government, after social security. All social programs put together - Medicaid, food stamps, supplemental security income, unemployment, and public health programs - make up 16% of the federal budget.

Source: the last page of my 2001 1040 instruction form.


If we wanna cut taxes, we oughta spend less on war.

WHAT???


WHAT???