Whose in favor of taxes?

[ksmybuttons]

Oregon is fiscally in a very difficult spot. We are voting on an increase in our state taxes for the next three years because of a budget deficit and the state wants 730 million.

There are going to be major cuts in all services if this tax doesn't pass, our schools are in trouble and human services are going to be chopped. It is an increase of 0.5% for individuals and 0.33% for corporations.

The latest poll is that 54% of the women and 41% of the the men are for the tax. A definate division of the sexes.

Also, those in the Portland metro area are voting for and the rest of the states is against.

Women, men. Urban, rural.

Why?

 

[Shingen]

Read my lips..."Know new taxes..."

 

[Guest]

Less men stays at home, and tax benefits urban more?

 

[teddybear4play]

Why can't the state figure out how to tighten their belt and come up with the $730 million themselves instead of going for your wallets?

Why is it that the government always fucks up and then makes the taxpayers bend over?

TB4p

 

[Guest]

Why is it that the government always fucks up and then makes the taxpayers bend over?

TB4p

Because that's what it does best.

 

[freakygirl]

Doesn't Oregon have some of the lowest taxes in America?

 

[The Heretic]

The latest poll is that 54% of the women and 41% of the the men are for the tax. A definate division of the sexes.

Also, those in the Portland metro area are voting for and the rest of the states is against.

Women, men. Urban, rural.

Why?

Portland has always been more liberal than the rest of the state. It is also the population center and has the most jobs. Liberals and people with decent to good jobs generally are a bit more likely to vote for tax increases. The rest of the state has a lot of agriculture - farmers and farm workers are less likely to vote for increased taxes, as are loggers, contractors, anybody else who works for themselves and those people who are struggling under their current tax debt.

Why are women in favor of taxes vs. men? Women in general, as a whole, tend to be a bit more liberal. They want their kids to go to good schools and so on. Also, women tend to make up more of the users of the social services than men.

As a native Orygonian who has moved to Washington (for the jobs), if I still lived there I would not vote for increased taxes - I think everyone here knows how I feel about tax revenue and what it should be spent on. Sure services will be cut - pols always threaten to cut popular services such as schools, because they know that this will motivate people to vote for the tax increase.

 

[ksmybuttons]

We went from 10th to 46th in the past 10 years.

TB4P: Why can't the state figure out how to tighten their belt and come up with the $730 million themselves instead of going for your wallets?

The people who live here and pay the taxes are the income source. We B]are[/B] the state.

Because we are in a depression, with one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation, people think it unfair.

The urban area has the infrastructure to support the mentally ill and the disenfrancised, so they live here, no matter where they started.

 

[teddybear4play]

The people who live here and pay the taxes are the income source. We are the state.

You are, but yet you're not.

I don't know how your state government is run, but there's no reason why they can't figure out ways to save the money, or at least a substantial part of it, themselves.

Of course, I really can't criticize, since we Hoosiers got increased tobacco, gasoline, and sales taxes to plug a $2 billion hole.

TB4p

 

[Lost Cause]

It's leadership....

Just like the CCCP of Washington, the Dem-Soc governor pissed away our surplus on pet projects, even when the economic forecast was not good. The same for Oregon's governor, it's the mentality of they aren't responsible, it's because they need more tax avenues. They don't allow audits of misappropriated public money, they don't massively cut the overhead in all state departments. (10 managers making $150,000 a year for an example) They use prevailing wages, and do not use smaller private companies for state projects. (sidewalk renovations of 1.2 million dollars) Everything you and I have to do to tighten our belts escapes the state culture of tax and spend. They don't care if you make it or not, as long as the extortion is paid.
The urban dependents and beneficiaries will vote for their masters every time, as the greatest welfare exists in the majority populated cities. BTW, I'm from Oregon, and my family lives there. If they pull their head from their ass in the future, I'm moving back.

 

[ksmybuttons]

You are, but yet you're not.

I don't know how your state government is run, but there's no reason why they can't figure out ways to save the money, or at least a substantial part of it, themselves.

Of course, I really can't criticize, since we Hoosiers got increased tobacco, gasoline, and sales taxes to plug a $2 billion hole.

TB4p

We have no sales tax. Our tax structure is progressive. The property tax is limited. We have to have a 2/3 voter turn out in order to increase taxes.

Lots of safeguards.

I think is very short sighted to not give the money when it is needed. It is hard to build again if you haven't done basic maintenance.

 

[Tungwagger]

You are, but yet you're not.

I don't know how your state government is run, but there's no reason why they can't figure out ways to save the money, or at least a substantial part of it, themselves.

Of course, I really can't criticize, since we Hoosiers got increased tobacco, gasoline, and sales taxes to plug a $2 billion hole.

TB4p

I'm a hoosier, used to be an Oregonian...

At least you in Oregon get to vote for a tax increase....

Ours was rammed down our collective throats...

 

[Spinaroonie]

I have an uncle that lives in taxes.

 

[The Heretic]

Re: It's leadership....

They don't allow audits of misappropriated public money, they don't massively cut the overhead in all state departments. (10 managers making $150,000 a year for an example)

While much of what you say may be true, I would like to say that you won't get rich working for the State of Oregon. Every member of my immediate family (save my ex and my kids) has worked for the state at one time or another, a majority made it their career. None of them got rich off of it. In fact the two of us (my brother and I) have done quite a bit better than the rest because we work in the private sector - although we have had our ups and downs.

That said, the one family member that still works for the state has a job and I don't - of course he has a better degree, is smarter (although not wiser) and has stuck with his job for about 20 years now. When I am employed I make more money than he does though - if he worked in the private sector he could easily make twice what he does.

 

[patient1]

I'm in favor of taxes. They are preferable to the alternatives of debt & inflation.

It doesn't mean that existing taxes should be increased, nor does it mean that I think we have the proper type of taxes in place.

I have no idea about Oregon.

I'd like to see a governor or president elect forgo their coronation ceremony & parades in the interest of belt-tightening. Didn't happen here (PA) this year, but it should have.

 

[miles]

Gee, I wonder why they're in trouble?



There is no sales tax, and I'd be willing to bet property taxes are outrageous.

I find it hard to believe the residents of Oregon aren't seeing through this asinine charade. Boost corporate taxes 33%?

Companies do not pay taxes - people pay taxes in the form of higher prices to cover the company's overhead.

Jobs are scarce in Oregon, so what does the government do? They penalize business.

Hello, Liberal economics.

Holyfuckingshit.

 

[miles]

I have an uncle that lives in taxes.

No, not Texas. Money, currency, dollars.

Thatsa it. He live in dollas taxes.

 

[ksmybuttons]

Our new governor just took a 5% decrease in salary. Our state legislature took a 7.5% decrease in the last session.

Times are hard.

Stephen Foster wrote this and it still holds true today:


While we seek mirth and beauty and music light and gay,
There are frail forms fainting at the door.
Though their voices are silent, their pleading looks will say
Oh! hard times, come again no more.

Let us pause in life's pleasures and count its many tears,
While we all sup sorrow with the poor.
There's a song that will linger forever in our ears,
Oh! Hard times, come again no more.

Chorus.
Hard times, come again no more.
'Tis the song, the sigh of the weary,
Hard times, hard times, come again no more.
Many days you have lingered around my cabin door.
Oh Hard times, come again no more

There's a pale drooping maiden who toils her life away
With a worn heart whose better days are o'er.
Though her voice would be merry, 'tis sighing all the day -
Oh! Hard times, come again no more.

'Tis a sigh that is wafted across the troubled wave,
'Tis a wail that is heard upon the shore,
'Tis a dirge that is murmured around the lowly grave -
Oh! Hard times, come again no more.

 

[lavender]

Miles, you read that wrong. It will boost individual taxes by .5% and corporate taxes .33% - NOT 33%.

 

[ksmybuttons]

Gee, I wonder why they're in trouble?



There is no sales tax, and I'd be willing to bet property taxes are outrageous.

I find it hard to believe the residents of Oregon aren't seeing through this asinine charade. Boost corporate taxes 33%?

Companies do not pay taxes - people pay taxes in the form of higher prices to cover the company's overhead.

Jobs are scarce in Oregon, so what does the government do? They penalize business.

Hello, Liberal economics.

Holyfuckingshit.

No Miles, we have constitutional property tax limitations. I pay less property tax now then I did 14 years ago when we bought the house and it's value has quadrupled...but not for tax purposes. And please re read. I said 0.33% - 1/3 of 1%.

 

[miles]

No Miles, we have constitutional property tax limitations. I pay less property tax now then I did 14 years ago when we bought the house and it's value has quadrupled...but not for tax purposes. And please re read. I said 0.33% - 1/3 of 1%.

As the great Emily Litella once said, "Oh. Never mind."

My mistake.

 

[teddybear4play]

I'm a hoosier, used to be an Oregonian...

At least you in Oregon get to vote for a tax increase....

Ours was rammed down our collective throats...

Amen.

I was bitching about that on multiple occasions. When they passed the increase last summer, cigarette and gas taxes went up immediately, then the sales tax increase went up on December 1 — gee, wonder if holiday spending in Indiana went down a little as a result?

I don't mind paying taxes as long as there's some form of accountability. For the most part, government, in its current form, behaves like the worst kind of business monopoly: they jack up their expenses for their "customers" even when they're swimming in revenues. Who in there is watching out for us?

Both parties are incredibly short-sighted on this.

TB4p

 

[brokenbrainwave]

I don't mind paying taxes as long as there's some form of accountability. For the most part, government, in its current form, behaves like the worst kind of business monopoly: they jack up their expenses for their "customers" even when they're swimming in revenues. Who in there is watching out for us?

Both parties are incredibly short-sighted on this.

TB4p

ding ding ding, ballons drop, confetti falls...

This is the issue at hand. Here in the Volunteer state, just as in most every one, we are facing a huge financial problem. Band aides, such as a lottery, will only carry on so far and eventually the feds are going to be forced to step in.

Now that brings me to my primary point. The reason most states are in a fiscal crisis is the federal government. As a rule, most states are ran fairly ok it would seem. The governors seemingly have a grasp on the issues and what their constituents want. The feds, however, step in, say you must do this or you must do that, raid the peoples paychecks for their own warped benifit, leaving the bulk of the pieces to be picked up by said states.

Primary examples, Dept. Of Education, ATF, and DEA. All would be better managed leaving it to the individual states. Every states is spending untold billions on these programs, and it is the we the people getting stuck with forms of double taxation to pay for both state and federal spending.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

An article in the paper last week talked about the fiscal crisis in many states. They pointed to the fact that in the last few years, many states made commitments to major NEW government initiatives. They also pointed out that many of the states aren't recieving less money from revenues, in fact they're receiving more...it's just that their spending has increased so fast that even the increasing revenue that they're experiencing isn't keeping up with the new spending.

In this case...it's spend then tax.

The article also pointed out that many of the states are publicizing draconian cuts in "normal" programs and not cutting back on the new initiatives. Maybe they think that publicizing these draconian cuts, they'll engender more support for tax increases.

I'm not going to take a position on these. Each state should make their own decisions, however, I wish the public discourse were made clearer though, so that people could make informed decisions about what they really want (and are willing to pay higher taxes for) and what they're not so hot about.

I agree with BBW above, the states are burdened by unfunded initiatives from the Feds. They are suffering from both, the unfunded initiatives and their own initiatives.

 

[The Heretic]

I wish the public discourse were made clearer though, so that people could make informed decisions about what they really want (and are willing to pay higher taxes for) and what they're not so hot about.

<politician-lobbyist-activist mode> We couldn't have that! If the people had clear, informative public discourse, people could make informed decisions! We don't want the people to make informed decisions! We want people making rash emotional decisions! We can control emotion with hype and fear - if people had the facts they might see how badly we fucked up. They might take our power and pet projects away from us! </politician-lobbyist-activist mode>