"What is it that a Dom does?"

[Irreverent1]

I note the use of humour. It doesn't quite work, of course, since your switch-around ignores the point that you claimed to be frightened whilst I did not, but the effort is always appreciated. Thank you.


You are remarkably kind. I note that you use a capital letter after a comma in your first sentence above, but rather than imagining you to be hoist by your own petard I shall merely assume that the word 'if' is Dominant in some way I do not recognize. There is a lot of that going on in our exchange, it would seem. And I may very well be an arse, but I am not sure I am capable of being an ass. Two nations divided by a common language and all that.


So far as it goes, that is trivially true, though it smacks worryingly of the sort of nervous culture that demands written permission before every kiss. But in the context of a lifetime's D/s relationship, it is largely irrelevant. It is not a question of 'allowing'. The Dominant sets a context in which the submissive wishes to obey: eventually, cannot really help but obey, unless with a massive act of conscious will. That precise context will undoubtedly change over long periods, but again such change will be led by the Dominant partner. In any kind of profound, long-term relationship, D/s, 'vanilla' (a demeaning term but a useful shorthand) or any other kind, by the time one gets to someone saying a flat no, or hard limit, or 'allowing' the other person or not, one has already failed in communication.


Again, forgive me, because I am enjoying the discussion and you are clearly a thoughtful and intelligent person, but I must disagree. Once more, you appear to be seeing the D/s individuals as entirely separate from one another, whereas they are in a symbiotic relationship. As Primalex has said, you seem to assume that the change of a 'No' to a 'Yes' must either be due to assault or battery by the Dom/me, or by a wholly autonomous decision from the submissive. But in the environment of a long-term, 24/7 D/s relationship (not in the least the only kind or even necessarily the 'best' kind, I accept, but the kind I know and am discussing), neither party is wholly autonomous, and the submissive, given his/her personality, desires, psyche, etc., far less so. There is not a clearly patrolled border between 'forcing' on one side and 'persuading' on the other. In some D/s relationships, including more than one I have been involved with, a simple word or even a look from the Dominant partner is enough to quell all doubt. NOT in any way because I am some kind of supreme Dom! Simply the natural erosion of decision making and autonomy, the growing trust, etc, which occurs over time, consciously and sub-consciously.


I honestly think this may be the crux of our disagreement since, as others have pointed out, in practical effect as to our immediate response to a 'No' from a submissive we are united. (It is just that the word is both more and less final to me than it seems to be to you. More because, if the breakdown in communication has reached that stage, it may be a sign that the relationship itself is seriously unhealthy and needs to be reconsidered; less because I consider it the beginning, and not the end, of a communication, if I think the action objected to is important for the mutual growth of the relationship, my pleasure, or both).

But when you use the word 'scene', I think we have found our key difference. I am not referring to playing out a scene, or any kind of temporary D/s arrangement. I do not in the least lack respect for those who do that sort of thing - quite the opposite, in fact, since it must take supreme communication and skill from both partners to be able to build the kind of trust necessary for an effective bond with such profound feelings at stake in a relatively short space of time. I could not possibly do it myself, I know.

I do not 'take on' the role of a Dominant in my relationships. Nor does any partner I have had 'take on' the role of a submissive. I do not stop being a teacher when I go home at night - nor is a pilot only a pilot when she is literally flying her plane. And both of those jobs, important as they are, are less fundamental to the very personality of the individual than someone who identified as D/s. Do you claim that when one's submissive partner leaves the room that one is suddenly no longer Dominant? A submissive - as opposed to a bottom - cannot 'stop being a submissive'. S/he might well not feel like continuing that particular activity - might feel like screaming at or hitting their partner, walking out, or anything else! But those are temporary problems, to be solved - or ideally, dealt with before they reach such extreme situations! They do not destroy the key self-identification which defines them - or rather is an important aspect of their definition.

This is a fascinating discussion, and I do sincerely thank you for your literally thought-provoking comments. I rarely respond at such length, and if I do now it is because I am so interested in what you have to say. To repeat, I think we probably agree about far more than we disagree about. But I do suspect that much of our difference comes from this distinction between a scene and a life, and I accept the blame in not having made it clear earlier that my approach was solely the latter, since it is all I have experienced.

I see that you didn't grasp the reference to dangling participles. This is unfortunate. Your statement about cuddling neither references me nor defines the relationship to my statement. You, therefor, made a declarative statement. Since you can't speak for another person that made the declarative to be about you. I apologize if this all seems a bit technical but you attempted to be a stickler an I found it to be incumbent upon myself to point out the flaw in your thoughts on grammar. You are most welcome.

The capital I in the word "if". It was made for emphasis. I don't know how to bold on here so I emphasize by using capital letters. I apologize if this is confusing. I appreciate you not bringing it up as an error because, with my explanation, you'd have looked foolish. So all is well that ends well.

On the next note, I used the word frighteningly and you have used the word worryingly (though I prefer worriedly myself). Referencing back to your declarative about a need for cuddling I do ask, are you in need?

The next part of this paragraph is breathtaking in its overt arrogance. The gist I am to gather is that there is only a no in the moment. But if you communicate well enough then there is no such thing as a hard limit. Like a hard limit against walking in front of a bus to prove the subs loyalty. Before you think that too extreme I have heard that very statement about walking in front of a bus made before by a Dom. So please clarify for me. Do you feel that you can talk a submissive into walking in front of a bus or jump off of a high rise building given enough time to communicate? If not then that entirely crumbles your premise about there not being any such thing as permanent hard limits. Your premise also seems to convey some form of extensive psychological training that is instantly conveyed to a Dom/Domme in order to deal with issues like a subs childhood trauma that contribute to Limits. Any explanation of that would be most appreciated as the training doesn't seem so trivial.

I think this has more to do with your inability to take no for an answer. This is a theme I'm sensing. I see that you referred to "my (meaning your) pleasure". Not the subs pleasure. You never even mention the subs pleasure or sole personal growth. Just the joint relationship and your own personal pleasure. I find that to be dramatically telling. I feel that I'm getting an understanding of your viewpoint and that it is incredibly self-centered.

Dominance and submission are behaviors. Dominant is a word to describe a persons position within a relationship. Pilots and teachers require formalized training and experience. A pilot isn't a pilot until they reach a certain qualification level despite amount of schooling on that very subject. The same for teachers. A teacher can walk into a grocery store and begin to lecture on a topic. Your feelings on whether you are a Dominant do not make you a Dominant. Feel free to stand in a Grocery line and smack a random woman's bottom saying that "It's ok, I'm a Dominant". PLEASE inform me of the reaction you get. Or better yet, Go to your submissives place of employment and, in front of co-workers, begin any form of Dominance play. Even if she says no. Remember you have open lines of communication so there should never be a permanent no. A Dominant is Dominant to an accepting submissive regardless of location. A Dominant is NOT dominant to ALL submissives everywhere. A hunter is only a hunter as long as there is something to hunt. A boxer is only a boxer as long as there is someone else to box.

We agree on quite a bit but I am not defined by my dominance or how I feel towards a sub. I am a person that also happens to be Dominant. I am Dominant only within the confines of My subs comfort which I am more than willing to stretch and push the boundaries of until she says an absolute no. I am willing to discuss and see if we can move the goalposts on the no. But I accept a no when it is said and I can find enough to enjoy about My sub without having to take the no as some form of personal challenge that must be broken to My will. If My sub says no to spanking in all its forms then that's a no. I'll come back to it later after more trust is built or take her to watch others perform to see if it entices her but, truly, I can find a whole lot of My pleasure with her elsewhere. I adapt. The no never vexes me. This might be our greatest point of disagreement. I feel that I exist as a Dominant to explore My submissive and to help her find her ultimate pleasure. I know I will find mine when she finds hers. I'm guessing but you seem to believe that your submissive is with you to help you find your pleasure first and foremost and, of course, you'll make sure she gets hers but that isn't the priority. Just how this seems to be shaping out. They are valid viewpoints. I enjoy my viewpoint far more than I enjoy your assumed viewpoint (I am aware of what is said about assumptions. Let's not dredge up that tired chestnut, please). But c'est la vie. As long as everyone involved is happy I suppose we are splitting philosophical hairs

 

[Miles Long]

Pew! Pew! (Laser Semen)

 

[Farawyn]

Pew! Pew! (Laser Semen)

...so much for Dommy types being "verbose"!

 

[Miles Long]

...so much for Dommy types being "verbose"!

A Twue Dom lets his laser semen do the talking, and to paraphrase my good buddy Poe:

Quoth the laser semen, "Pew! Pew!"

 

[Aphro]

A Twue Dom lets his laser semen do the talking, and to paraphrase my good buddy Poe:

Quoth the laser semen, "Pew! Pew!"

For Chrissakes, be careful where you point that thing, Miles!

 

[Conager]

Once again, I point to my sig.

Sorry, I must've missed the first time you "pointed" to your sig...as well as your sig, since I have them turned off. Having taken the time now to review your signature, I am quite grateful to you for taking the time to point out to me how little you care.

 

[Farawyn]

Sorry, I must've missed the first time you "pointed" to your sig...as well as your sig, since I have them turned off. Having taken the time now to review your signature, I am quite grateful to you for taking the time to point out to me how little you care.

Perfect.

 

[HisArpy]

Sorry, I must've missed the first time you "pointed" to your sig...as well as your sig, since I have them turned off. Having taken the time now to review your signature, I am quite grateful to you for taking the time to point out to me how little you care.

What can I say other than boors are boring.

 

[HisArpy]

Perfect.

Thank you, I appreciate your concern.

 

[Farawyn]

Thank you, I appreciate your concern.

Don't thank me, I wasn't speaking to you. *points to your signature*

 

[Duracell10]

I am a compassionate dom, but I like to be in control. It has to be a compatible relationship though or it can get difficult.

I like to be a 24/7 sub, but that doesn't mean I tell them what to do. It just means I have expectations and they know what they are.

 

[RubenesqueAphrodite]

*chuckles*
Reading through this thread, I'm reminded of an analogy I made a years ago.
Doms are like beta fish.
You can't put more than one in the tank or they'll try to kill each other.


Good thread, though. I don't post nearly enough on this forum, as I tend to butt heads with people, and quite frankly, prefer not to deal with the conflict. (That could be either attributed to my submissive undercurrent or, more likely the fact I don't waste much time arguing with those who've already made up their minds that they are going to disagree with me.)

My ideal Dom would make me feel safe, secure, unjudged, loved, and appreciated for allowing him to run certain aspects of my life and use me as he sees fit.
And yes, I said "allowing him."

If you can not best me in your decision making for the betterment of both of us in the relationship, I would be unable to accept you as my equal, much less view you capable of being someone I could look up to with adoration or consider a Dominant.

Does that make me less of a submissive? I don't think so. It just means I have standards and don't automatically present myself to the self-proclaimed leader if the pack, so to speak.

The natural Dominants I've encountered have a quiet reserve about them, and don't have to force it or feel obligated to shout to the rooftops their dominant natures.

It can be a look or the way something is spoken, but it's definitely a confidence that speaks louder than arrogance ever could.

 

[NoeMasks]

.....

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

.....

Is this you being a quiet Dom?

 

[Conager]

What can I say other than boors are boring.

I seem to have misjudged your character. You do have some capacity for self-awareness.

 

[Mindfondler]

I've just put HisArpy and Irreverent1 on ignore because I don't want their noises in my feed any more. I know that HisArpy, at least, won't mind that, because he says explicitly that he doesn't care about anyone else's views. I must admit that I feel better already knowing that they're both deleted from my life, and that I won't even be able to read any of their so-called comebacks on that.

I'm stating this here is to illustrate a more general point to subs reading this thread. You don't have to put up with crap from anyone (including me). Your submission is oxygen to Doms, and you have the power to disconnect that supply.
.

 

[RubenesqueAphrodite]

I've just put HisArpy and Irreverent1 on ignore because I don't want their noises in my feed any more. I know that HisArpy, at least, won't mind that, because he says explicitly that he doesn't care about anyone else's views. I must admit that I feel better already knowing that they're both deleted from my life, and that I won't even be able to read any of their so-called comebacks on that.

I'm stating this here is to illustrate a more general point to subs reading this thread. You don't have to put up with crap from anyone (including me). Your submission is oxygen to Doms, and you have the power to disconnect that supply.
.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

+1


...

 

[NoeMasks]

Is this you being a quiet Dom?

No someone pointed out that I need to not write angry, I have very strong feelings on the subject, and they can come across wrong, and ruin what I am trying to say.


A Dom does a lot of things, but there are in my opinion 3 interlinking things all Doms must do, Comunicate well, show respect, and project trust.

I have met far to many Neanderhal Club wielding, Bridge Trolls, masquerading as Doms (some of you know who I am talking about). I have from dealing with damage these people cause, noticed they can show at any time 2 of theses but fail on the 3rd, and it can change.

Communicate, Oral and or writen, a Dom must communicate. Comunication is not telling things or barking orders, it is understanding what is being said back to you too. Domestic Contracts, and Rules, Safe words, the colors, aftercare; all of these need good comunication skills to set properly. Failure to do so can lead to anything from minor misunderstandings to (in some states) imprisonment. (I am going to start a thread on consent later)

Show Respect, Some of us are in to some pretty deprived things, if the Dom shows no respect for Rules and Boundaries, than a Dom is not going to show you respect, and self enforce the agreed upon limits, if your Dom to be is Flipant and Cavalier about establishing what are a subs limits, said Dom will not respect those limits, when they are needed.

Project Trust, seems pretty basic, and interweaves with the above. sub A has been left tied, blindfolded,and gagged, for a bit. Now it is one thing to forget to take out the trash, it is another to forget your sub is tied up on the bed.

There are more examples, I am sure, and the list of traits a Dom must have can go on for ever, so these big three for me, equal up to one thing, Safe. We can RP master and slave, and other Pick You Labels, but everything in the BDSM balieywick is dangerous, with out these three things, how can your sub truly feel safe with you.

Footnote

There are some of you, who do not care about any of this, you think you are a true Sahdist, or a natural Masochist, and do not need any of this. Great, you are to cool for school, if you feel this does not apply to you go for it. You do you, I'll do me.

 

[NoeMasks]

I've just put HisArpy and Irreverent1 on ignore because I don't want their noises in my feed any more. I know that HisArpy, at least, won't mind that, because he says explicitly that he doesn't care about anyone else's views. I must admit that I feel better already knowing that they're both deleted from my life, and that I won't even be able to read any of their so-called comebacks on that.

I'm stating this here is to illustrate a more general point to subs reading this thread. You don't have to put up with crap from anyone (including me). Your submission is oxygen to Doms, and you have the power to disconnect that supply.
.

I support this message 100%

 

[Conager]

No someone pointed out that I need to not write angry, I have very strong feelings on the subject, and they can come across wrong, and ruin what I am trying to say.


A Dom does a lot of things, but there are in my opinion 3 interlinking things all Doms must do, Comunicate well, show respect, and project trust.

I have met far to many Neanderhal Club wielding, Bridge Trolls, masquerading as Doms (some of you know who I am talking about). I have from dealing with damage these people cause, noticed they can show at any time 2 of theses but fail on the 3rd, and it can change.

Communicate, Oral and or writen, a Dom must communicate. Comunication is not telling things or barking orders, it is understanding what is being said back to you too. Domestic Contracts, and Rules, Safe words, the colors, aftercare; all of these need good comunication skills to set properly. Failure to do so can lead to anything from minor misunderstandings to (in some states) imprisonment. (I am going to start a thread on consent later)

Show Respect, Some of us are in to some pretty deprived things, if the Dom shows no respect for Rules and Boundaries, than a Dom is not going to show you respect, and self enforce the agreed upon limits, if your Dom to be is Flipant and Cavalier about establishing what are a subs limits, said Dom will not respect those limits, when they are needed.

Project Trust, seems pretty basic, and interweaves with the above. sub A has been left tied, blindfolded,and gagged, for a bit. Now it is one thing to forget to take out the trash, it is another to forget your sub is tied up on the bed.

There are more examples, I am sure, and the list of traits a Dom must have can go on for ever, so these big three for me, equal up to one thing, Safe. We can RP master and slave, and other Pick You Labels, but everything in the BDSM balieywick is dangerous, with out these three things, how can your sub truly feel safe with you.

Footnote

There are some of you, who do not care about any of this, you think you are a true Sahdist, or a natural Masochist, and do not need any of this. Great, you are to cool for school, if you feel this does not apply to you go for it. You do you, I'll do me.

I'm sure some of my very best posting decisions involve hitting the back arrow and not posting it all.

On the other hand some of the most interesting unsolicited PMs that I have received were in response to posts that I had that moment of hesitation before hitting submit- where I think I perhaps overshared or took something just a little too far. I think sincere feelings and reactions are generally appropriate.

Maybe after mulling it over the post that you just posted was a little less emphatic than your original post but I don't really see what I would call actual anger. Perhaps a little righteous indignation but not inappropriately so.

 

[Farawyn]

I post what I feel and I never delete. Stand by your words. It's all we have here.

<<<<<<<<<<<< not a Dom.

 

[cookiecat]

The more words you use to try to convince someone "this is what a Dom does," the less interesting or convincing it is.

A dominant leads. His submissive follows. What happens in between is up to them.

*wonders if I should start a thread: "what is it that a submissive does!?"*

 

[Farawyn]

The more words you use to try to convince someone "this is what a Dom does," the less interesting or convincing it is.

A dominant leads. His submissive follows. What happens in between is up to them.

*wonders if I should start a thread: "what is it that a submissive does!?"*

We do glitter threads. That's what we do.

 

[TheJestersAdvocate]

The more words you use to try to convince someone "this is what a Dom does," the less interesting or convincing it is.

A dominant leads. His submissive follows. What happens in between is up to them.

*wonders if I should start a thread: "what is it that a submissive does!?"*

Yup....sure there maybe some "general guidelines" but not only does that sort of thing differ from couple to couple, it can change within a pairing over time.

To add to the 'Dom/Domme leads, a submissive follows" the pair also comfort and support one another in their own ways and they test one another's limits and overcome them when they are ready to.

We do glitter threads. That's what we do.

Whoa whoa whoa....I thought you weren't submissive.