What do you think of girls schools? (Single Sex Education)

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I went to an all-boys school which has since become co-ed. Being a fairly horny person, while at school, I was very active in trying to make it a co-ed institution. However, my motivation was not academic.

Looking back, I think the single sex education experience avoided many of the show-offy things that boys would do. It also helped foster more of a academic/acomplishment culture as oppossed to "be attractive to the other sex" culture. I don't know if that was good or bad, but I do know that it was a very good education.

What do you think?

Liberals opposing more single-sex schools
By Ellen Sorokin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Women's and civil rights groups are urging President Bush to drop the idea of allowing school districts to open more single-sex public schools, claiming such schools only promote sexism.

"We live in a real world, and that world has got men and women in it," said Eleanor Smeal, president of the Feminist Majority Foundation. "They must compete."

Noting high demand for the country's 15 single-sex public schools, the Bush administration wants to relax federal rules that now limit single-sex schools and make more money available for school districts to form single-sex schools or classes.

However, groups including the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights (LCCR), the Feminist Majority Foundation and the National Women's Law Center said that separating students by sex promotes boys' sexism and is poor preparation for increasingly integrated workplaces.

"Separate is never equal," said Nancy Zirkin, deputy director of LCCR, an umbrella group of 185 civil rights organizations. "We would never accept it in a race context. Why on earth would we ever accept it in a gender context?"

The groups said the idea of single-sex schools only distracts educators and diverts money from proven ways to improve education: more attention to core academic subjects, greater funding, smaller class sizes, more parental involvement and a clear code of behavior and discipline.

Thomas Carroll, founder and chairman of the Brighter Choice Charter School for Girls and Brighter Choice Charter School for Boys in Albany, N.Y., said single-sex schools should be an option that's made available to lower-income families.

"We're not saying this type of education is an answer for every child parents should be the ones to decide what's best for their children," he said.

Mr. Bush last winter signed the No Child Left Behind Act that allows school districts with single-sex schools to compete for a small portion of $450 million for innovative programs. The law also allows school districts to receive federal dollars for single-sex schools and classes if comparable course work and facilities are available to both sexes.

Since 1972, Title IX outlawed federal funding for education programs that discriminate on the basis of sex. The revisions, which were included in the education bill, endorses single-sex schools so long as there are equal-funding opportunities for both sexes.

Education Secretary Rod Paige has said that school districts do not need to provide his department with a justification for offering a single-sex school. Mr. Paige said he wants to revise federal regulations to give school districts "as much flexibility as possible" to offer more single-sex programs.

Research on single-sex education, done mostly in private schools, suggests the schools are more orderly and that girls tend to do better in math, science, athletics and social situations. It also found that the self-esteem of girls attending such schools is not necessarily better than that of girls in other schools.

Supporters of single-sex schools argue such learning environments are good for girls and minorities. Girls pay attention to their teachers, work confidently at lessons and speak up freely in class, they said.

As for single-sex schools hindering girls' leadership skills, Mr. Carroll said: "Look at Hillary Rodham Clinton. She went to Wellesley College, an all-women's school, and that didn't seem to impair her leadership abilities. What we're finding is, it gives girls greater opportunities for leadership roles."

Ms. Zirkin said more research should be done on whether single-sex education benefits children before expanding on the idea. "Why in the world are we doing a whole program when there is no, or little at best, scientifically based research?" she said.
• The story is based in part on wire service reports.

 

[lovetoread]

I honestly believe that there should be all boy and all girl schools.

It makes for a better enviroment for all.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I honestly believe that there should be all boy and all girl schools.

It makes for a better enviroment for all.

Good morning LTR, you're looking lovely as always.

Why do you think that single sex schools ought to be an option? Why do you think they're better ie. environment?

 

[SlipperyKitten]

I went to all co-ed public schools and now I am in a women's college and the difference is amazing! In public school, I was constantly distracted by my hormones. Now, I am really focusing on my work. Single sex education definately allows for much more academic focus.

 

[lovetoread]

Its been shown that when girls are seperated from the boys,their grades in subjects like math and science go up.

If I knew where the article was,I would link it here.

But it wasnt because of hormones.

It was found that the boys got more attention than the girls.

Boys=energetic

They saw that the girls were not called upon as much as the boys.

They saw that teachers,male and female,acted the same way.

The boys came first because they had to to keep control of the room.

When they took the girls out and had them in another class, their grades went up and they seemed to happy with the results.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I went to all co-ed public schools and now I am in a women's college and the difference is amazing! In public school, I was constantly distracted by my hormones. Now, I am really focusing on my work. Single sex education definately allows for much more academic focus.

Welcome newbie. It's nice to see you posting on the boards and making your viewpoints known. I'm glad that you like your new environment. Maybe the hormones just act up on the weekends now. Mine were a bit difficult to tame, especially at 16-17-18 even in a single sex environment, thank goodness for weekends and dances with the local girls schools.

Do you think that school districts should be given the freedom to implement single sex schools if they choose to?

 

[Eagle70]

I went to an all boys private school around these parts, and now, as i've become closer again with all the friends i left behind when i went to school, its obvious what i missed.

Private school, with just all guys, was great for a few reasons. No pressure, i could just concentrate on work, didnt have to worry about my apperance, stuff like that. Plus, our football team was nasty, we won the Superbowl my senior year, and i think that made my whole experiance worthwhile.

Looking at all i missed though...if it werent for football, i would've transferred back into public school. I honestly didnt know how to handle myself around girls when i got out of highschool...i didnt go to proms or anything, because i didnt know any girls, obviously. I missed tons of parties, tons of just fun experiances, that i would kill to have the chance to get back.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Its been shown that when girls are seperated from the boys,their grades in subjects like math and science go up.

If I knew where the article was,I would link it here.

But it wasnt because of hormones.

It was found that the boys got more attention than the girls.

Boys=energetic

They saw that the girls were not called upon as much as the boys.

They saw that teachers,male and female,acted the same way.

The boys came first because they had to to keep control of the room.

When they took the girls out and had them in another class, their grades went up and they seemed to happy with the results.

I remember that study too. It was very enlightening.

The Atlantic Magazine did a special study of education about a year ago and drew the conclusion that the initiative to improve opportunities in education for women was a grand success, far better than anyone imagined it would be. In fact, the article said, there are many more women enrolled in universities than men now and that maybe we have a crisis with boys education now.

Having a single sex environment might be beneficial to boys as well. What do you think?

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Looking at all i missed though...if it werent for football, i would've transferred back into public school. I honestly didnt know how to handle myself around girls when i got out of highschool...i didnt go to proms or anything, because i didnt know any girls, obviously. I missed tons of parties, tons of just fun experiances, that i would kill to have the chance to get back.

I went to school up there too. I got to go to the local prom with the cousin of one of the "day" students. It felt strange being at a prom and only knowing three people. I really regretted missing all that, but I made up for it in college. LOL. Not being able to have a car on campus put a crimp in a young man's mobility too.

But then again, we average 6-9 people per classroom which made for some intensive learning experiences and our athletics were second to none. I remember our little school of 250 with it's hockey team taking on the large public school state champion hockey team in a scrimmage and beating them 9-1. They didn't know kind of train hit them.

 

[Secret Kate]

I keep threatening my 13 year old daughter

that I will find an all girl school if her grades don't improve. Not sure that boys are her problem though (at least not all of the problem!) - but it's a nice threat!

I've also seen the study where girls aren't called on as much as boys - they did something on one of the news magazine type shows (20/20 or something like it) once and did a hidden camera in a classroom type thing - the boys were definately called on more.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Re: I keep threatening my 13 year old daughter

that I will find an all girl school if her grades don't improve. Not sure that boys are her problem though (at least not all of the problem!) - but it's a nice threat!

I've also seen the study where girls aren't called on as much as boys - they did something on one of the news magazine type shows (20/20 or something like it) once and did a hidden camera in a classroom type thing - the boys were definately called on more.

I have a bittersweet laugh for your threat to your daughter. I got sent away to the all boys school (though it was always the plan and I didn't have much choice) so I lived the reality of your threat. It wasn't so bad though, I was horny every minute I spent learning. LOL.

 

[RhumbRunner13]

All good posts here!!

Would a compromise be any help?

Coed schools with seperate classes for boys and girls?

Socialization would go on during lunch and free time but the benefits of seperation would still exist in the learning environment.

Rhumb

 

[Star of Penumbra]

I am totally opposed to single sex schools. Isolating children from members of the oppostie sex thier age doublessly has a negative impact o thier social lives. When they do get to meet members of the opposite sex, they often feel uncomfortable, and tend to make fools of themselves more than anything (both males and females).

When I was a kid, two of my three best friends were girls. To this day, I prefer to have women rather than men as friends. NOt ot say that I don't like hanging out with the guys once in a while; I just prefer women, because they (generally) don't act as stupid as we men.

So by all means, if you want to totally screw up your kids' social lives by sending them to single-sex schools, go ahead. Personally, I would prefer my kids (not that I have any) to have experience with both sexes, instead of just thier own.

Know this as well: If I had been sent to an all male school, I would be a hell of a lot more screwed up than I am.

For thier sake, don't isolate your kids. In the long run, it's more harmful than helpful.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I am totally opposed to single sex schools. Isolating children from members of the oppostie sex thier age doublessly has a negative impact o thier social lives. When they do get to meet members of the opposite sex, they often feel uncomfortable, and tend to make fools of themselves more than anything (both males and females).

When I was a kid, two of my three best friends were girls. To this day, I prefer to have women rather than men as friends. NOt ot say that I don't like hanging out with the guys once in a while; I just prefer women, because they (generally) don't act as stupid as we men.

So by all means, if you want to totally screw up your kids' social lives by sending them to single-sex schools, go ahead. Personally, I would prefer my kids (not that I have any) to have experience with both sexes, instead of just thier own.

Know this as well: If I had been sent to an all male school, I would be a hell of a lot more screwed up than I am.

For thier sake, don't isolate your kids. In the long run, it's more harmful than helpful.

I think part of the point of the article is not compulsive attendance at a single sex school. This, I think, is in the greater context of the "choice" program that Mr. Paige is advocating. Therefore, in a regional area, the parents and student could elect to make use of the school if they thought that it would be beneficial to the student (Not all kids are the same). Does that make a difference to your position Star?

I'm doing a little work...lol.

 

[Star of Penumbra]

I think part of the point of the article is not compulsive attendance at a single sex school. This, I think, is in the greater context of the "choice" program that Mr. Paige is advocating. Therefore, in a regional area, the parents and student could elect to make use of the school if they thought that it would be beneficial to the student (Not all kids are the same). Does that make a difference to your position Star?

I'm doing a little work...lol.

Some. I still think that isolating kids from the oppostie sex is ultimately destructive, and a just plain bad idea. However, some kids may not want to interact with the other sex. This is fine. But just don't force them into a single-sex school without at least consulting them first.

 

[amelia]

i went to an all women's university (the first time) and loved it. there were some boys, but mostly girls. i liked the way they focused on making sure that women (especially non traditional students) could succeed.

i want to go back this time to finish up.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Some. I still think that isolating kids from the oppostie sex is ultimately destructive, and a just plain bad idea. However, some kids may not want to interact with the other sex. This is fine. But just don't force them into a single-sex school without at least consulting them first.

There are some single sex Universities still. Not all the seven sisters have gone coed and many of the graduates of those schools take pride in the education that they recieved. If I had to do it over again, I'd have preferred not to be in a single sex school (I still have raging hormones), but I can see many who would have benefitted from it. Some people are choosing the schools and finding benefit from it.

On one side of the argument are people who say "Don't give them the choice"

On the other side of the argument are people saying "Some people might benefit from it, let's make it available as a choice and see if anyone is interested and whether it proves beneficial".

As an experiment and a choice, I think I'd support it.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

i went to an all women's university (the first time) and loved it. there were some boys, but mostly girls. i liked the way they focused on making sure that women (especially non traditional students) could succeed.

i want to go back this time to finish up.

Amelia. Was it in the midwest or east?

P.S. are you enjoying the new group of kids this year? Are you finding them interesting?

 

[amelia]

Amelia. Was it in the midwest or east?

P.S. are you enjoying the new group of kids this year? Are you finding them interesting?

it's in texas....(we don't know what we are...midwest..south..southwest....)

i love my new group of kids..so far...easy as pie...and that scares me :yikes:

 

[Kitte]

I like Rhumbs Idea, allowing for single sex education with co ed socialization. Not sure how plausible it is but very good idea.

I went to a co ed boarding school where the boys outnumbered the girls 6-1 I got an excellent education. I think part of what works is private school plain and simple you have smaller classes and teachers that I think are willing to go the extra mile because they are treated a hell of a lot better then public school teachers.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

it's in texas....(we don't know what we are...midwest..south..southwest....)

i love my new group of kids..so far...easy as pie...and that scares me :yikes:

I crashed there. Back now but working some.

 

[Weird Harold]

Looking back, I think the single sex education experience avoided many of the show-offy things that boys would do. It also helped foster more of a academic/acomplishment culture as oppossed to "be attractive to the other sex" culture. I don't know if that was good or bad, but I do know that it was a very good education.

What do you think?

I don't think segregation of any kind is a good thing.

Single sex learning environments -- whether it's individual classesin a coed school or single sex schools -- might improve "education," in the sense of learning the material, but school is about more than "education."

More precisely, "education" is about more than facts and figures. "Education" is, or at least should be, about preparing students for life after school -- single sex schools ignore this aspect of "education" by concentrating on the "fact and figures" part of a complete education.

The study cited above also gave several theories beyond "the boys were called on more," to explain why girls often don't do well in coed math classes -- fear of being seen by the boys as "smart" was one other explanation offered.

Those "causes" can be addressed without separating the sexes and should be addressed whether the sexes are separated or not -- the perception that boys don't like "smart" girls is a myth that needs to be debunked instead of "hiding" the smart girls from the boys via segregation.

 

[someplace]

I began attending a venerable women's college in Virginia the year after it was made co-ed. There were 2,000 women and 200 men. I imagine there are a few more men there now, but it is still considered a "girls school."

There were never any men in any of my classes. I loved it. The entire atmosphere there was of positive reinforcement that women were capable of anything they cared to strive for. Many women leaders have come from that school.

What I resented at the time were much stricter rules regarding curfews and visitation for the girls than the guys. Looking back, I can see the rules were more about safety than anything else, but they seemed grossly unfair at the time.

There were PLENTY of opportunities to socialize with men from other schools on the weekends and that helped keep the students more focused on studying Monday through Thursday.

I would love for my daughters to choose to attend a women's school.

 

[Weird Harold]

There were PLENTY of opportunities to socialize with men from other schools on the weekends and that helped keep the students more focused on studying Monday through Thursday.

I would love for my daughters to choose to attend a women's school.

I think there is difference between your daughter choosing to attend a "women's school" and you sending her to a segregated girl's only school.

originally posted by Gusser in the How To forum:
she was very young and also (forgot to mention before) very desparate for boys, she went to an all girls boarding school so she only saw boys in the holidays...

(Gusser's problem is dealing with the revelation that his GF spent a drunken week giving blowjobs when she was fifteen.)

I'm not trying to claim that segregated schools cause every fifteen year old girl to spend a drunken week giving blowjobs, or coed schools will prevent those who choose to from doing it. I mention gusser's GF only as an illustration of what can and does happen to some children who don't learn how to deal with the opposite sex on a regular basis before hormones kick in.

I never encountered sexual segregation until I went through basic training -- I think it was appropriate in that circumstance and was mature enough at that point that I could deal with the opposite sex without the mystery of meeting a "strange creature I'd never dealt with before."

There are times, circumstances, and subjects that are appropriate for sexual segregation, but I don't think it's a good idea as a general policy -- there are far more subjects and situations where coed education is better for both sexes.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I went to an all-male high school. I had my choice of several schools and a couple of them were co-ed. The one that I chose was the best out of the group (academically, athletically, infrastructure, alumni, etc). I didn't have any strange experiences of a sexual nature or any other type. I haven't decided whether I'm glad that it was single sex or not, but there certainly were not any events or indications that it was bad for me and doesn't shake my opinion that single sex education shouldn't be eliminated as a choice for some people. After all, many people are choosing that approach and enjoying it.

I do remember one of my friends taking a pillow and a sleeping bag with him on the bus on the way to one of the local girls' schools (a dance and a chance to mingle) where his girlfriend attended school (they lived near each other and knew each other from outside of school). He sure got a lot of envious teasing from the other boys.

There are always chances to interact with the other sex, whether you volunteer at a local charity, attend dances, etc. I had a girlfriend from one of the schools, we wrote letters every day back and forth to each other. Getting perfumed letters every day sure built up my anticipation for the weekend, though it was only every two or three weekends when I could see her.