What a sub wears?

[00Syd]

I won't but that rocks. Smart guy. That's the attitude of a keeper.

I think so too

 

[ZRT]

Yeah, he nails it pretty good. He should write an essay or something.

I don't know if I'd agree with the cat metaphor so much, as someone who's been a cat person my whole. But that's beside the point.

 

[Keroin]

Wow, Syd...wow. Seb sounds like some kind of amazing. Of all the advice on this board, directed at you, I'd say his is what sticks. Go with it.

Not quoting but paraphrasing...

Don't change. I like you just the way you are. That's poetry my friend.

 

[00Syd]

Wow, Syd...wow. Seb sounds like some kind of amazing. Of all the advice on this board, directed at you, I'd say his is what sticks. Go with it.

Not quoting but paraphrasing...

Don't change. I like you just the way you are. That's poetry my friend.

I think he's pretty amazing, too.

This is the first time I've dated someone and felt proud to be their girlfriend.

 

[Netzach]

I think he's pretty amazing, too.

This is the first time I've dated someone and felt proud to be their girlfriend.

Over time, if and as you guys stick around each other and spend time together, things that might really make you feel prickly and angry and trigger your flight response may become less and less of a big deal. Not because you'll be more mature or older or any of that crap, but because relationships mature in duration.

Trust is a lot harder than a lot of people make it seem. There's basic, I trust you're not going to put me in the hospital SM trust, but sometimes I think people confuse that for other things. There's even "intellectually I know you love me, you tell me seven times a day and you back it up with action, but still until life throws serious shit at us and I know it viscerally it's not the same" kinds of trust.

 

[JMohegan]

Seb wrote this to me after I told him my cat theory. It was really good to hear.

Syd, don't answer this if you don't want to, obviously, but I find myself wondering what happened this afternoon to make you upset?

If he wrote you an email that you find reassuring, one that expresses appreciation for you, as an individual person, and also describes an analogy for relationship interaction that you find appealing...... what happened between then and now?

I'm asking because I'm wondering if there's something you're doing that's inadvertently distracting you from the essence of his message - and if so, if there's a way for you to avoid it.

 

[00Syd]

Syd, don't answer this if you don't want to, obviously, but I find myself wondering what happened this afternoon to make you upset?

If he wrote you an email that you find reassuring, one that expresses appreciation for you, as an individual person, and also describes an analogy for relationship interaction that you find appealing...... what happened between then and now?

I'm asking because I'm wondering if there's something you're doing that's inadvertently distracting you from the essence of his message - and if so, if there's a way for you to avoid it.

Oh, I'm sorry if I gave the impression that there was on particular disastrous day or something. There have just been a few afternoons and nights where we both wound up unhappy and more than a little frustrated in a "GRRR why didn't that work??" sort of way. But it was always alright come the morning.

I know I can be a little vague but I never got as comfortable talking about personal stuff, especially sexy stuff, as many other people seem to be.

If I can still answer your question, I'd like to, I'm just a little confused as to what it is.

 

[JMohegan]

Oh, I'm sorry if I gave the impression that there was on particular disastrous day or something. There have just been a few afternoons and nights where we both wound up unhappy and more than a little frustrated in a "GRRR why didn't that work??" sort of way. But it was always alright come the morning.

I know I can be a little vague but I never got as comfortable talking about personal stuff, especially sexy stuff, as many other people seem to be.

If I can still answer your question, I'd like to, I'm just a little confused as to what it is.

You don't have anything at all to apologize for.

Actually, I was wondering if reading BDSM Talk might be counterproductive for you during this period. I hesitate to say that, because I really enjoy your posts and consider you to be a very valuable addition to the board. But on reading this and this and this and this - I am struck by the frequency with which you respond to other peoples' comments here with:

"I understand, and am not saying that your feelings or desires to do that aren't valid, just that they often act as a trigger for my own neurosis."

or

"this fucks with my self esteem like no other."


Does this feel like a healthy working through issues, or counterproductive to you? Keeping in mind the goal inherent in your statement: "The outside world continues to encroach upon the edges of my mind no matter how much I close the shutters."

 

[00Syd]

You don't have anything at all to apologize for.

Actually, I was wondering if reading BDSM Talk might be counterproductive for you during this period. I hesitate to say that, because I really enjoy your posts and consider you to be a very valuable addition to the board. But on reading this and this and this and this - I am struck by the frequency with which you respond to other peoples' comments here with:

"I understand, and am not saying that your feelings or desires to do that aren't valid, just that they often act as a trigger for my own neurosis."

or

"this fucks with my self esteem like no other."


Does this feel like a healthy working through issues, or counterproductive to you? Keeping mind the goal inherent in your statement: "The outside world continues to encroach upon the edges of my mind no matter how much I close the shutters."

Could be. But likely I'm going to find ways to beat up on myself no matter what, and this at least has the potential for being educational.

 

[JMohegan]

Could be. But likely I'm going to find ways to beat up on myself no matter what, and this at least has the potential for being educational.

Does your guy know you post here? Will he read this thread?

 

[00Syd]

Does your guy know you post here? Will he read this thread?

He knows that I post here but hes never been to the site.

 

[JMohegan]

He knows that I post here but hes never been to the site.

Putting myself in his shoes, I'd say there's great value in being able to recognize your triggers and soft spots re self esteem.

Of course, if you tell him all of this while you're sitting together on the couch, that's even better than reading the thread.

 

[Sir Victor]

Could be. But likely I'm going to find ways to beat up on myself no matter what, and this at least has the potential for being educational.

Would you say that you tend toward being a perfectionist?

I agree that you should start a new thread; people who like analysis will certainly join in.

 

[Corylea]

I'm always amazed at people who say, "My sub will do this" or "My dom will do that" before they even have one. Maybe it's because I'm a switch, but I'm not a role looking for a corresponding role. I'm a complicated person, and different people draw out different sides of me. I want whatever's happening between me and my partner to be about who we are with one another. My BDSM is almost always exquisitely personal. I've flogged people at parties -- sure, it's a good time -- but the serious fun comes from knowing a person really well and from doing things that really get to THEM.

I don't want to be a flogger that happens to have Corylea attached at one end. Someone asked me recently if I was taking on new submissives. I never "take on a submissive" -- I get to know somebody, and sometimes that person brings out a fierce and commanding side of me. But most people don't. Even more rarely, I get to know somebody, and that person brings out a pliant, eager-to-please part of me. This has happened only three times in my entire life -- and I'm 51, so there's been rather a lot of life -- and I don't know why I would have willingly submitted to M or P or S but not to anyone else.

I imagine there must be some people who are so submissive or so dominant that they're like that with everyone. But for me, it's all about the relationship -- which part of me does that person spark?

Since everything is so very personal for me, I can't do the classified ad thing. What I really want is a BDSM yenta -- somebody who knows everyone in the community, has seen how they interact with people, and could say, "You know, if G brought out your dominant side, then J might, too" or "If S brought out your rare submissiveness, then L might, too." Hey, I read science fiction -- I'm allowed to wish for impossible things.

 

[midwestyankee]

He is not, as far as I know, confused about himself. He knows himself much better than I know myself. He knows what he wants to do and is good at it.

Most of the things that didn't work haven't worked because of me, though he often blames himself. I forget why he thinks it was his fault, now.

Syd, please be careful about getting into the habit of considering yourself the broken, must-be-fixed party in a relationship. You're not broken or even in need of adjustment: you are exploring and discovering yourself.

And this is not at all about youth and life experience, either. I'm still exploring and discovering myself at well past twice your age. I can also tell you from profoundly unhappy experience that a lifetime of considering yourself to be the one who is primarily at fault for the relationship not working in all its parts will lead to a meltdown of titanic proportions.

 

[SimonBrooke]

I'm still exploring and discovering myself at well past twice your age. I can also tell you from profoundly unhappy experience that a lifetime of considering yourself to be the one who is primarily at fault for the relationship not working in all its parts will lead to a meltdown of titanic proportions.

Hear, hear.

Been there too. Had that t-shirt. Wore it out. Threw it away.

It didn't fit me anyway.

 

[00Syd]

Syd, please be careful about getting into the habit of considering yourself the broken, must-be-fixed party in a relationship. You're not broken or even in need of adjustment: you are exploring and discovering yourself.

And this is not at all about youth and life experience, either. I'm still exploring and discovering myself at well past twice your age. I can also tell you from profoundly unhappy experience that a lifetime of considering yourself to be the one who is primarily at fault for the relationship not working in all its parts will lead to a meltdown of titanic proportions.

I don't think that I am broken and must be fixed and am sorry if I gave that impression. I can get down on my self a little (and thankfully am aware enough to realize that I'm really emotionally masochistic and not just a wreck), but don't think I'm some pitiful broken mess or anything.

I don't think that I'm the primary fault for the relationship not working, because the relationship is working beautifully. But I do think that in a few specific instances where things did not work out so well (during scenes and such), I think my issues were what got in the way.

 

[Sir Victor]

Mildred looks nice here, but there are so many possibilities: http://www.3wishes.com/dresses.asp

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't think that I am broken and must be fixed and am sorry if I gave that impression. I can get down on my self a little (and thankfully am aware enough to realize that I'm really emotionally masochistic and not just a wreck), but don't think I'm some pitiful broken mess or anything.

I don't think that I'm the primary fault for the relationship not working, because the relationship is working beautifully. But I do think that in a few specific instances where things did not work out so well (during scenes and such), I think my issues were what got in the way.

My use of the word "broken" may have been out of place and I didn't mean to imply that I see you that way. Rather, when we have a tendency to assume responsibility for anything that goes wrong in a relationship, then we are saying on some level that we're not adequate to the task of relating. It's a dangerous mindset to take on and I merely want to warn you against letting this occasional self-blaming become a pattern for you.

 

[Mistress_Belladonna]

Think about how often porn uses trashy whore clothing to "symbolize" a submissive's 'role'...

Which is more commonplace in terms of photographic examples of erotic submission:

A) A 'Catholic Schoolgirl' outfit that is 6 sizes too small
B) A beautifully tailored suit and dammed expensive stilettos

Look back on the thread and note how many people posted attire (or lack thereof) that fell more towards the cheap whore end of the spectrum, than not. Somewhere along the line trashy whore became inextricably [generically] linked with the submissive dress code; I'm curious how that came to be*.



(*I doubt I'll ever get an answer.)

Perhaps it's an aspect of "availability" that links the two. I don't really see the clothing as being the defining factor for subs. It's their attitude. What a person wears that turns on a partner.... dom or not, is probably part of a fantasy or playing out a rich sexual theme. The sex kitten look, "cheap whore", stripper, catholic schoolgirl who's uniform got shrunk 5 sizes... all of these are reasonably obvious, but then the fantasy dress code for Dominants could be as stereotypically drawn from Central Costuming. Leather, latex, tight very buttoned up business attire with sexual overtones; we Dominants can play in the Costume department, too, you know! ;-)

 

[CutieMouse]

Perhaps it's an aspect of "availability" that links the two. I don't really see the clothing as being the defining factor for subs. It's their attitude. What a person wears that turns on a partner.... dom or not, is probably part of a fantasy or playing out a rich sexual theme. The sex kitten look, "cheap whore", stripper, catholic schoolgirl who's uniform got shrunk 5 sizes... all of these are reasonably obvious, but then the fantasy dress code for Dominants could be as stereotypically drawn from Central Costuming. Leather, latex, tight very buttoned up business attire with sexual overtones; we Dominants can play in the Costume department, too, you know! ;-)

Oh intimately familiar; it's one reason the "trappings" cause me so many challenges.

 

[Netzach]

Oh intimately familiar; it's one reason the "trappings" cause me so many challenges.

Let me guess, if you dress as you dress you MUST be a Domme, right?

 

[intothewoods]

Originally Posted by CutieMouse
Think about how often porn uses trashy whore clothing to "symbolize" a submissive's 'role'...

Which is more commonplace in terms of photographic examples of erotic submission:

A) A 'Catholic Schoolgirl' outfit that is 6 sizes too small
B) A beautifully tailored suit and dammed expensive stilettos

Look back on the thread and note how many people posted attire (or lack thereof) that fell more towards the cheap whore end of the spectrum, than not. Somewhere along the line trashy whore became inextricably [generically] linked with the submissive dress code; I'm curious how that came to be*.



(*I doubt I'll ever get an answer.)

Well, some like the doll thing. So in that case more expensive clothes would also be appealing.

 

[JMohegan]

Think about how often porn uses trashy whore clothing to "symbolize" a submissive's 'role'...

Think about how often porn features makeup that needs a chisel to remove, as well as the bizarre dichotomy of huge fake tits and cunts sporting the prepubescent look.

None of that reflects my personal tastes. Where do the stereotypes of porn come from? I don't know enough about the industry to say.

 

[HappyMisha]

I would also disagree that's it's a rare thing for dominants to lose control... Maybe not fully lose control but my Master likes lingerie and there is this one particular item that has quite the effect on him...