Well, it seems I was wrong about the 750 word story.

[KillerMuffin]

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77782

So it can be done to make people happy. Even though you got crappy ratings it wasn't the size of the story they had difficulty with.

Maybe if you learned to edit yourself you wouldn't get bombed with 1's, dickhead.

 

[wildsweetone]

KM?

to quote you from the 'and' thread KM

'I am deeply sorry for subjecting this board to it and I will endeavor not to do it again.'


a little shortlived don't you think?


oh maybe you posted this one before reading the other thread.

oh by the way... please feel free to copy and paste any of my stories to the storyfeedback thread too... though maybe you wont now that i've given consent. if you do though, your nickname on top may get more interesting feedback than i've had already.

ok i apologise for posting this trash... dunno what came over me.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Posting a story in a public place is consent to have other people read and comment on it already, getting additional consent to have other people read and comment on it is redundant. This particular instance was no different from the time I posted a link to another story of his where I praised it and gave accolades first, the only difference is that I didn't give feedback first since I am a biased and I didn't want to bias the group.

I did not do anything remotely wrong or unethical in requesting feedback on a story that wasn't mine.

Now if I'd claimed that it was my story, that would be altogether different, but I didn't.

If a person does not like feedback, a person should not post their stories publicly. Criticism goes with the territory. And quite frankly, whether he liked it or not, he picked up some really good feedback that all of us can actually use.

And yes, my nickname on top can always get more feedback than most anyone else's. Why? Because I give it back to people who want it. Right, wrong, or indifferent, people get feedback from me and when I ask, they usually give it back.

I will continue to post stories at the feedback board that don't belong to me on the irregular occasion that I do so. I've done it before with no complaint, and I'll probably keep it up.

No hard feelins, though.

 

[wildsweetone]

ty for not biting my head off

 

[KillerMuffin]

I am chagrined. Oops.

I can make all the excuses, bad day, too much homework, too much time at Lit, the temperature isn't perfect, but why bother.

I'm sorry, Wild.

To go on, I was shocked about the whole 750 word thing. I still don't think that you can make a good pornographic story that short, however my new and improved opinion is that you can make an excellent erotic story with it. No one will get off, but people will enjoy it.

I've always had Flash Fiction separated from Story in my head. Amazing how biases just blow up in the face.

 

[wildsweetone]

ty km your apology is appreciated

you know... this 750 word thing... it is truely shocking.

when i sat down and played with the 300 and 500 word threads i was astounded how much wordiness i could delete and still have a story left behind.

it wasn't the point to make it pornographic... erotic i think, yes.

but it was the main point to get the beginning, middle and end of a story into the specific word count or as close as possible.

for me it started out as a joke. but it ended up a really good exercise. oddly enough, there is some skill involved, i think i managed to get there though.

thanks too for being openminded and realising it can be done.

now, i'm going to go and have a play around for a week with a 750er... who knows one day i may work myself up into a novel (heaven forbid) lol

PS I AM NOT GETTING INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PORNOGRAPHIC AND EROTIC! rofl

 

[KillerMuffin]

I've written a few extremely short pieces in my time. We had a short writer's group here about a year ago where we put up a picture and gave people a week or so to write a short piece about it. We tried to keep it to a few short sentences, but people ended up with longer stories.

MuffieDefinitions:

Erotica: Point of the story is the characters' relationship.
Pornography: Point of the story is sex.

Here's one at 440 words:

Vato

It was hot and humid like only the afternoon streets of Miami could be hot and humid. Her fingers clutched convulsively on the fence and she breathed in the mingled scents of someone frying frijoles, chiles, and the depressing undertone of garbage that always seemed to be there. The oppressive heat vied with the oppressive poverty until she couldn't tell which was worse. The tortured gray skies gave the rusted fence and desolate playground an eerie cast, one that was highlighted by the flash of lightening. Thunder cracked like a bullet shot and she flinched, tears brimming over.

She leaned her head on the fence, her forehead touching the cool metal that had shared their kiss. It had been hot and clinging, full of the promise of their animal sexuality and the promise of the life they would soon lead. At least it had to her, she hadn't understood then, she never really did understand, even now. But he had. Her kiss had been the beginning of her life and the end of his.

Snatches of their argument, one that had become a refrain, flashed through her head like the lighting blazing in the sky. "Get out! Get a life!" she'd screamed. She hadn't listened to him, not at all. She thought his "I can't" had meant "I won't."

She leaned into their fence, silent sobs wracking her body like the thunder shook the foundations of the buildings around her and her guilt tore at her soul. He'd known what would happen and she'd forced him into it anyway. The vicious words she'd spat at him would haunt her along with the ghost of his kiss, "I don't want some street vato drug dealer, I want a real man, one who has a real job and real ambitions."

And he'd reluctantly agreed. She talked about college, about joining her father's business, about they family they would have, about taking care of his mother, about every little dream for the future she'd ever had. She never noticed his silence until he kissed her and sealed his promise. Or his fate.

Now he was dead, just another street vato whose blood washed down the sewers of Miami. A spray of .45 caliber bullets from a Mac 10 had tracked across his back, shot from a gun held by his younger second cousin who wanted into their gang. Just another vato like all the others who had died in the streets. But he was her vato and he had died for her.

She rubbed her cheek against the rust links that had shared their kiss and wished that she were with him.

 

[Ray Dario]

"Jack and Jill went up the hill
to fetch a pail of water
Jack fell down and broke his crown
and Jill came tumbling after"


This is a story. It has just 25 words but it tells a story. I have read some of the 300 word stories and I have read MW's 750 word story. Most of the 300 word stories could have been further condensed to some 50 or so words, but you would lose even more of what would make it a GOOD story.

None of the stories I read are GOOD STORIES! Some of them had good elements in them, but none of them would have been published by even the most indescriminate editor. You just can't build up a rich plot and good character in that little room.

Of course all of the numerous and glaring technical problems with MW's story didn't help it, but even had it been technically perfect I would still not have considered it a good story. It was too short and not nearly rich enough in plot or character.

I, for one, remain unconvinced that a good story can be written in less than 3000 words.

Ray

 

[wildsweetone]

the point ray...

wasn't that it was going to be a great story. simply, that it could be done. which it was.

there are as many different styles of writing as there are different readers.

thank goodness for differences.

 

[wildsweetone]

btw ray

is that you in your avatar?

 

[Impetus]

I've read some really good short stories, usually by 'legendary' authors that come around in english classes I take. They're really good stories, but only once you read them through several times. In my experience, I've never been able to get what makes a good short story on my own, and certainly not on the first time through. I have to read it several times or talk with someone who's read some of the literary cricicisms about it, like an english teachers. In the best stories there are layers upon layers of meaning that I can barely even concieve of putting together. That's where you seperate the geniuses from the...not so...genius.

-I

 

[Closet Desire]

nice observation...

Poe never wrote novels or long stories and, in fact, he insisted that if you needed so many words to tell a tale then your skills needed some sharpening. Most people who have suffered through survey lit classes (let's face it--it's not everybody's cup of tea) only saw Poe's stories as round-the-campfire scary stories. A couple of years ago I published a paper on the erotic aspects of The Black Cat. Layer upon layer as you say. I found it was full auto-erotica (sexual philias), S&M, and witchcraft. The trick in proving this was demonstrating that Poe was well read on the French studies of execution victims who had orgasms and reference books about witchcraft including Malleus Mallficarum. For me it was a real thrill to find those hidden meanings.

Then again...maybe it was the laudenum...

 

[Ray Dario]

Re: btw ray

btw ray

is that you in your avatar?

LOL WildSweetOne, um, No! There is a long story behind my avatar, IM me sometime if you're interested.

Ray

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Why not?

For no particular reason, I decided to try and shorten KM's 440 word story. What follows is the 335 word result. RF

--

The young, dark-haired woman let her forehead touch the cool metal that once shared their kiss. It had been hot and clinging, full of their animal sexuality and the promise of the life they would soon lead. At least that’s the way it felt to her. Back then, she hadn't understood, she still didn’t, but he had. That kiss marked the beginning of her life and the end of his.

Snatches of their argument, one that had become a refrain, flashed through her head like the lighting streaking across the humid Miami sky. "Get out! Get a life!" she'd screamed, not listening to him, not really. She’d assumed his, "I can't," meant, "I won't."

She leaned into their fence as silent sobs wracked her body like the thunder shaking the foundations of the derelict buildings around her. Guilt tore at her soul. He'd known what would happen and she'd forced him into it anyway. The vicious words she'd spat at him would haunt her along with the ghost of his last kiss. "I don't want some street vato drug dealer, I want a real man, one who has a real job, and real ambitions."

And he agreed, reluctantly. After that, she began talking about college, about joining her father's business, about the family they would have, about taking care of his mother, about every little dream for the future she'd ever had. And she never noticed his silence, not even when he kissed her to seal his promise-and his fate.

Now he was dead, just another street vato whose blood washed down the sewers of Miami. A Mac 10, held by his younger second cousin who wanted into the gang, sprayed a track of .45 caliber bullets across his back. Just another vato like all the others who had died in the streets. But he’d been her vato, and he’d died for her.

She rubbed her cheek against the rusty links that had shared their kiss and wished that she were with him.

 

[karmadog]

Is it a story?

Yeah, it is.

Is it good? Sorry, KM, no. Better written than that other one (you know what I'm talking about). But still not a good story. You have not fully developed your characters, you have not explored your thematic issues. I can see how writing these things can be a good exercise, but only if you have a problem cutting things that you have written. Otherwise, I think it may be a waste of time.