Very touchy subject here..approach with caution.

[silverwhisper]

westmich69 quoth:
i don't have an answer. do you?

yes, i do. homosexuality is specifically addressed in leviticus where it's famously referred to as an abomination, but then again, i've never met a single person who murders witches, another levitican command. there's a metric assload of leviticus that most people in the modern day simply ignore, irrespective of how devout their religious practices may be.

the subject of homosexuality is addressed quite infrequently compared to all manner of other stuff (e.g., greed, for example), yet its footprint on the minds of many is fantastically bigger than would seem merited by the scant textual basis.

incidentally, i've certainly heard formally-trained clergy and clergy-in-training describe the jewish kosher laws as having had their roots in food preparation and the like. since none of us can exactly hop in a time machine to verify, it's gonna be very hard to prove/disprove it.

ed

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

Fuck religion. If there's a hell we're all going there anyway no matter who or what we screw. That's my answer.

<- Agnostic

We don't go anywhere, just to dust.

<- Horny Athiest

 

[Cabeza]

So, I don't give a crap what Xtians think of my activity, and I think it's silly to treat as literally true a bunch of writings from 2000 years ago that have undergone so many translations.

But, as I understand it, there are 3 main places in the Bible that "condemn" homosexuality. I'm not going to bother looking them up, but to summarize: In Leviticus, it says you shouldn't lay with another man like you would a woman. As many have pointed out, Leviticus has a lot of other rules we no longer follow. Maybe more importantly, an early (as in James, the Disciple) decision of the nascent church was that non-Jews who became Xtian did not have to conform to Mosaic law (i.e., Leviticus.) I believe this was in response to a query from Paul / Saul, the guy who got blinded.

Second is the huge misunderstanding of the story of Sodom and Lot. The city was destroyed because the citizens gang raped the angels, not because male parts got rubbed together. The story doesn't refer to consensual MM sex. Aside: do we really take moral instruction from someone who offered his teens daughters to be gang raped?

Finally, Jesus mentions it using a Hebrew word that is very ambiguous.

Summary on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_homosexuality

 

[Etoile]

This is a pretty funny book: The Year of Living Biblically

 

[Cabeza]

Looks interesting, I'm fascinated by religion and religious history, although I don't subscribe to one. Thx.

 

[WestMich69]

Wow, This is great.

I'm not sure if any of these responses answered the question, but it is certainly alot of great information. Very, very interesting ,, I hope alot more people weigh in on this.

 

[Etoile]

I'm not sure if any of these responses answered the question, but it is certainly alot of great information. Very, very interesting ,, I hope alot more people weigh in on this.

How was the question left unanswered? The question was "how do [gays, lesbians, and bisexuals] square [alternative sexuality] with The Bible?"

The answers given were mostly "we don't have to, we know that the Bible does not need to be interpreted literally and that we are okay human beings regardless of what a 2000-year-old book says."

A few people had variations on that, but pretty much everybody answered the same way: "What's to square?"

 

[WestMich69]

I probably didn't phrase it correctly. What we were originally wondering was if a practicing Christian (whatever that might be..??) was also practicing homosexual activities, how do they reconcile the two?

Did that make the question clearer?

 

[Night_Jasmine]

So, I don't give a crap what Xtians think of my activity, and I think it's silly to treat as literally true a bunch of writings from 2000 years ago that have undergone so many translations.

But, as I understand it, there are 3 main places in the Bible that "condemn" homosexuality. I'm not going to bother looking them up, but to summarize: In Leviticus, it says you shouldn't lay with another man like you would a woman. As many have pointed out, Leviticus has a lot of other rules we no longer follow. Maybe more importantly, an early (as in James, the Disciple) decision of the nascent church was that non-Jews who became Xtian did not have to conform to Mosaic law (i.e., Leviticus.) I believe this was in response to a query from Paul / Saul, the guy who got blinded.

Second is the huge misunderstanding of the story of Sodom and Lot. The city was destroyed because the citizens gang raped the angels, not because male parts got rubbed together. The story doesn't refer to consensual MM sex. Aside: do we really take moral instruction from someone who offered his teens daughters to be gang raped?

Finally, Jesus mentions it using a Hebrew word that is very ambiguous.

Summary on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_homosexuality

Suggestion - reread the story...the men approached the house, WANTED the 'angels'..owner offered the women in his house (daughters)..that was refused..but nowhere is there mentioned that the men got the angels.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Suggestion - reread the story...the men approached the house, WANTED the 'angels'..owner offered the women in his house (daughters)..that was refused..but nowhere is there mentioned that the men got the angels.

So the men wanted to gangbang the angels--but maybe they didn't get to-- and the house owner was willing to hand over his daughters to be gangbanged instead.

Not much difference, really.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

So the men wanted to gangbang the angels--but maybe they didn't get to-- and the house owner was willing to hand over his daughters to be gangbanged instead.

Not much difference, really.

Yup...guess it shows the value of females back then *shrugs*

 

[bi golly]

WestMich69,

I grew up in Western Michigan and the part I was from was very religious, so some of the posters here may not know where you are coming from with the question.

There are prohibitions in the Old Testament against man and man sex, but the same part of the Bible allows slavery and death penalties for offenses that we don't care about today. There are parts of the New Testament that speak out against man to man sex. But the tenor of the New Testament seems to support the ideas prevalent in the Roman empire, that women were property of men.

We aren't a bunch of goat herders, living on the edge of the desert, with our clan fighting the neighboring clan for access to the water hold. Nor are we non-citizens in the Roman empire, trying not to run afoul of the many rules that favored Roman citizens over non-citizens.

If you are having great man and man sex and you are an ethical person, what's the probs?

 

[RyeandGingerAyle]

What we were originally wondering was if a practicing Christian (whatever that might be..??) was also practicing homosexual activities, how do they reconcile the two?

As an atheist I hate to answer for believers, but it seems to me that believers think God made them, warts and all (although in fact humans invented gods, the Christian one included), so their existence in all its manifestations, including their sexuality, is a creation of God.

I would think that's how any "reconciliation" is done, if it is at all deemed necessary....and your question is framed in such a way as to suggest it is.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

As an atheist I hate to answer for believers, but it seems to me that believers think God made them, warts and all (although in fact humans invented gods, the Christian one included), so their existence in all its manifestations, including their sexuality, is a creation of God.

I would think that's how any "reconciliation" is done, if it is at all deemed necessary....and your question is framed in such a way as to suggest it is.

My mom's philosophy (which irks the hell out of me cause of how it sounds) is love the sinner, not the sin. She's major religious but accepted it when I came out.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

My mom's philosophy (which irks the hell out of me cause of how it sounds) is love the sinner, not the sin. She's major religious but accepted it when I came out.

And that's a good thing Jaz

 

[Night_Jasmine]

The acceptance or philosophy?

I'm happy with the acceptance but absolutely despise the thought that my attraction for women is considered a sin in her mind.

 

[silverwhisper]

westmich quoth:
i probably didn't phrase it correctly. what we were originally wondering was if a practicing christian (whatever that might be..??) was also practicing homosexual activities, how do they reconcile the two?

did that make the question clearer?

i felt it was pretty clear already, for my part, and you did receive several answers that addressed it, i thought.

ed

 

[srlmort]

My thought...

I honestly hate talking religion but as a former Jehovah's Witness I believe people need to enjoy themselves and enjoy life!

It is the main reason I am not one now because their belief is homosexuals, lesbians, adulterers are not accepted: PERIOD
I couldn't deal with that religion because there was so much hypocrisy. On one hand they are telling us to love one another but yet I was banned from the congregation because I got pregnant out of wedlock.

I mean, people need to realize that the only one true judge of what you do is God, if you believe in him. I still believe that He exists but I can't associate myself with ANY religion right now because I feel as my grandma felt years ago: Believe in God for yourself.

If you are an Athiest or Agnostic and it works for you...cool.

The problem with this society, especially the American society, is that we force our morality on others. Not everyone has the same beliefs. Respect that and move on!

As one of my good friends once said: FUCK YOUR MORALITY! The emphasis is on "your" because what is moral for you should be only for you. Leave my ideas of morality to me!

 

[Aviator1976]

As an atheist I hate to answer for believers, but it seems to me that believers think God made them, warts and all (although in fact humans invented gods, the Christian one included), so their existence in all its manifestations, including their sexuality, is a creation of God.

I would think that's how any "reconciliation" is done, if it is at all deemed necessary....and your question is framed in such a way as to suggest it is.

I always enjoy when people throw out the phrase "in fact" as though it will settle the debate. Thank God that two thousand years of theological debate can now come to an end because RyeandGingerAle has let us in on a little known fact.

 

[Aviator1976]

The acceptance or philosophy?

I'm happy with the acceptance but absolutely despise the thought that my attraction for women is considered a sin in her mind.

Why do you care what her personal religious views are?

Do you want her to be that concerned with your views?

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

The acceptance or philosophy?

I'm happy with the acceptance but absolutely despise the thought that my attraction for women is considered a sin in her mind.

Acceptance baby, should have clarified.

 

[Aviator1976]

I honestly hate talking religion but as a former Jehovah's Witness I believe people need to enjoy themselves and enjoy life!

It is the main reason I am not one now because their belief is homosexuals, lesbians, adulterers are not accepted: PERIOD
I couldn't deal with that religion because there was so much hypocrisy. On one hand they are telling us to love one another but yet I was banned from the congregation because I got pregnant out of wedlock.

I mean, people need to realize that the only one true judge of what you do is God, if you believe in him. I still believe that He exists but I can't associate myself with ANY religion right now because I feel as my grandma felt years ago: Believe in God for yourself.

If you are an Athiest or Agnostic and it works for you...cool.

The problem with this society, especially the American society, is that we force our morality on others. Not everyone has the same beliefs. Respect that and move on!

As one of my good friends once said: FUCK YOUR MORALITY! The emphasis is on "your" because what is moral for you should be only for you. Leave my ideas of morality to me!

Nobody forced their religious views on you and I would challenge you to provide one example of when someone else's religious views were imposed on you.

 

[Etoile]

Nobody forced their religious views on you and I would challenge you to provide one example of when someone else's religious views were imposed on you.

How about that whole "gays can't get married" thing?

 

[Night_Jasmine]

Why do you care what her personal religious views are?

Do you want her to be that concerned with your views?

Familial acceptance is important..especially if you're from a small family.


Etoile, agree with you there.

 

[haurni]

As an atheist I hate to answer for believers, but it seems to me that believers think God made them, warts and all (although in fact humans invented gods, the Christian one included), so their existence in all its manifestations, including their sexuality, is a creation of God.

As another atheist, I have to agree with R&GA. We have created God in our own image, then turned around and projected all of our attempts to socially control each other back onto ourselves in terms of "Thou shalt nots".

Religions change over time because society changes over time. Compare Judaism > primitive Christianity > Catholicism > Protestantism > Anglican > Episcopalian. There are so many interpretations of holy scripture (and so many holy scriptures!) that you can pick and choose any one to fit your own particular agenda.

I think that the value in religion is in its central message. Of course, which message you pick as central is problematic but I'll go with,

"Do unto others as you would have done unto you" and its converse (contrapositive?) "Do not unto others as you would not have done unto you".

It seems to me that you should just do your best to be a good person. I see no reason why being gay would be incompatible with that.

To answer the original question specifically, though: No, I dont think you can square it with the Bible.