Using actual pornstars in a work of fiction.

[EmilyMiller]

So I have this (perhaps silly) idea for a series of short stories. Each featuring an actual [female] porn-star. For argument’s sake, Gabbie Carter. What is the position regarding ownership of their name / appearance etc.? I assume you can’t just write real people into a story without their permission. Does calling them Cabbie Garter change anything (not that this would work for Riley Reid of course).

Sorry if this is a dumb question, all I know about this area is stuff I have read about fan fiction, which seems to be tolerated or not depending on who owns the rights. I guess this is not quite the same thing though.

Any advice appreciated.

Em

 

[Britva415]

Honestly not sure whether pornstars are regarded as celebrities but we do have this whole Celebrities section of the site.

Here's a discussion about naming them: https://forum.literotica.com/threads/is-it-ok-to-mention-real-celebrities-by-name.1473613/

 

[KeithD]

You can write real people into stories without their permission. If you are able to present it as a satire, you can get away with quite a bit. Otherwise, the less you can show it's within their publicly shown behavior, the more open you are to successful suit.

Whether you can get whatever you write that includes a real person posted to Literotica depends on the tolerance of it by the site's sole submissions editor, Laurel. You can write more about real people than you can get posted here. What doesn't fly has a fuzzy edge to it, which depends completely on Laurel's view of it.

I have some depicting real people without identifying them and a few even that do identify them, including in sexualized roles. They've all been passed into the file because they depict the character doing what they do/did in public perview.

 

[oggbashan]

It would have to go in the celebrities category, and there are specific rules about what can be posted on Lit.

Ther legal area is vague but it could cause you (and Lit) problems. The name change you suggest isn't enough, since everyone would know who you meant.

My advice is simple - don't. But if you do, be very careful indeed.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Honestly not sure whether pornstars are regarded as celebrities but we do have this whole Celebrities section of the site.

Here's a discussion about naming them: https://forum.literotica.com/threads/is-it-ok-to-mention-real-celebrities-by-name.1473613/

Had a read. Doesn’t seem very clear. Probably best to avoid I guess. Or to maybe use their appearance and not name (however mangled).

Thanks Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

You can write real people into stories without their permission. If you are able to present it as a satire, you can get away with quite a bit. Otherwise, the less you can show it's within their publicly shown behavior, the more open you are to successful suit.

Whether you can get whatever you write that includes a real person posted to Literotica depends on the tolerance of it by the site's sole submissions editor, Laurel. You can write more about real people than you can get posted here. What doesn't fly has a fuzzy edge to it, which depends completely on Laurel's view of it.

I have some depicting real people without identifying them and a few even that do identify them, including in sexualized roles. They've all been passed into the file because they depict the character doing what they do/did in public perview.

Laurel is the rub…

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

My advice is simple - don't. But if you do, be very careful indeed.

Probably safest I agree.

Em

 

[Djmac1031]

I think you could save yourself a lot of headaches if you just use fictional names.

You can base your story on the real porn star, use her as a model with your descriptions etc.

But I doubt too many readers are concerned about reading FICTIONAL adventures of REAL porn stars anyway, and I don't think the possible name recognition would boost your readership in any real way.

They're more concerned about what HAPPENS in your story.

Make it interesting and titillating enough, and readers won't care about whether the character is named after someone in real life or not.

Just my opinion.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

These have been up on Literotica for quite a while now, with no objections:

https://www.literotica.com/s/before-they-were-stars-scarlet-red
https://www.literotica.com/s/before-they-were-stars-addie-andrews

Both are current pornstars. Additionally, I have similar stories about other female celebrities including Deborah Norville, Michelle Pfeiffer, Amy Smart, and Ali Larter. All are posted in Celebrities/Fan Fiction and their real names are used.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think you could save yourself a lot of headaches if you just use fictional names.

You can base your story on the real porn star, use her as a model with your descriptions etc.

But I doubt too many readers are concerned about reading FICTIONAL adventures of REAL porn stars anyway, and I don't think the possible name recognition would boost your readership in any real way.

They're more concerned about what HAPPENS in your story.

Make it interesting and titillating enough, and readers won't care about whether the character is named after someone in real life or not.

Just my opinion.

Probably all true. My idea was along the likes of Emily does Gabbie, Emily does Piper and so on. Probably just gratuitous wish fulfilment on my part .

Sounds like I had a bad idea. Not for either the first or last time.

Em

 

[lovecraft68]

I've made up a few porn stars for my stories, the one just breaking in and referencing established ones.
Example "Molly Minx" in my mind's eye is a stand in for India Summer(when she goes blonde) I just make up names Dana Darling, Nikki Nice...I like alliteration

I have used real porn stars names, but simply as "She said she's never had sex, but she fucked like Jenna Jameson" which in that case I don't think its a big deal.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've made up a few porn stars for my stories, the one just breaking in and referencing established ones.
Example "Molly Minx" in my mind's eye is a stand in for India Summer(when she goes blonde) I just make up names Dana Darling, Nikki Nice...I like alliteration

I have used real porn stars names, but simply as "She said she's never had sex, but she fucked like Jenna Jameson" which in that case I don't think its a big deal.

I might go down that path. Thanks.

Em

 

[alohadave]

So I have this (perhaps silly) idea for a series of short stories. Each featuring an actual [female] porn-star. For argument’s sake, Gabbie Carter. What is the position regarding ownership of their name / appearance etc.? I assume you can’t just write real people into a story without their permission. Does calling them Cabbie Garter change anything (not that this would work for Riley Reid of course).

Sorry if this is a dumb question, all I know about this area is stuff I have read about fan fiction, which seems to be tolerated or not depending on who owns the rights. I guess this is not quite the same thing though.

Any advice appreciated.

Em

I've read more than one series here that had porn stars in them. The stories were in Celeb.

I'll see if I can find them, it's been a while since read them.

Edit: Found them
https://www.literotica.com/s/the-prize-day-01
https://www.literotica.com/s/how-i-married-a-porn-star-pt-01

 

[ElectricBlue]

Probably all true. My idea was along the likes of Emily does Gabbie, Emily does Piper and so on. Probably just gratuitous wish fulfilment on my part .

Probably. Don't assume others know or care who these porn stars are; the girl crush is most likely yours only. Most of us wouldn't have a clue who you're on about.

Write your fantasies anyway, call them Jennifer or Sue, any name you choose.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Probably. Don't assume others know or care who these porn stars are; the girl crush is most likely yours only. Most of us wouldn't have a clue who you're on about.

Write your fantasies anyway, call them Jennifer or Sue, any name you choose.

Sensible advice.

Thanks

Em

 

[oggbashan]

I rarely look at the celebrities category, becasue for most of the people I have no idea who they are.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I rarely look at the celebrities category, becasue for most of the people I have no idea who they are.

Is it cognitive bias to think that everyone else will have heard of the people that are of interest to you? I guess so.

Em

 

[alohadave]

Is it cognitive bias to think that everyone else will have heard of the people that are of interest to you? I guess so.

If they are celebrities, it's reasonable to think that they are well known.

I think it's more biased to think that no one knows who they are just because you don't.

 

[EmilyMiller]

If they are celebrities, it's reasonable to think that they are well known.

I think it's more biased to think that no one knows who they are just because you don't.

Well I guess Piper Perri isn’t exactly Margot Robbie, which is I think the point he was making.

Em

 

[Djmac1031]

Sounds like I had a bad idea. Not for either the first or last time.

It's not a BAD idea; LE is full of stories like what you're describing.

But it's not like you personally know the REAL personality of the porn star you'd be writing about.

If you're going to wind up inventing your own fictional character anyway, may as well give that character a fictional name.

Besides, what if the reader DOES recognize the name, but dislikes the actress? You'd lose them right away.

I suppose it's whether you feel attached enough to a particular actress that the story DEMANDS you at least use her "real" name, risking the chance you might limit the appeal of your story only to those who actually recognize and like her work, or just write your interpretation of that actress under a different name and readers can create their own version of her in their heads based on your descriptions.

There's no right or wrong choice here, IMO. It's really just what you think best serves your story.

 

[oggbashan]

If they are celebrities, it's reasonable to think that they are well known.

I think it's more biased to think that no one knows who they are just because you don't.

But they could be well known in the US, and completely unknown elsewhere. If I don't know them it doesn't prove anything because I am not in the US.

Indian Bollywood stars have a following of many millions but except for one or two, they are unknown outside the Indian sub-continent.

 

[ElectricBlue]

If they are celebrities, it's reasonable to think that they are well known.

I think it's more biased to think that no one knows who they are just because you don't.

No, it's not reasonable to think that. Many people avoid celebrities like the plague, because they are like grasshoppers. And porn stars even more so, because not everyone watches porn.

I'd say that more people wouldn't be into your favourite celeb than would - just as many people would never have heard of my favourite artists, or movies, or writers, or music, for that matter. Especially if there's a wide age gap between those folk. I've spent a lot longer in the twentieth century, for example, but we've got some folk here who weren't even born until the C21st. It goes without saying that they're going to have quite different people on their lists.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It's not a BAD idea; LE is full of stories like what you're describing.

But it's not like you personally know the REAL personality of the porn star you'd be writing about.

If you're going to wind up inventing your own fictional character anyway, may as well give that character a fictional name.

Besides, what if the reader DOES recognize the name, but dislikes the actress? You'd lose them right away.

I suppose it's whether you feel attached enough to a particular actress that the story DEMANDS you at least use her "real" name, risking the chance you might limit the appeal of your story only to those who actually recognize and like her work, or just write your interpretation of that actress under a different name and readers can create their own version of her in their heads based on your descriptions.

There's no right or wrong choice here, IMO. It's really just what you think best serves your story.

I know this is an author canard, but i seldom think about the reader (does that make me a terrible narcissist?). I write what pleases me. OK what turns me on.

I agree that picking on a starlet I like would put people off if they either have never heard of her, or have and hate her. But life is too short. I’m not after world domination. If I like it and a handful of other discerning souls feel the same, I’m good.

I guess this is why I’ll always be a porn hack and not a writer of erotic fiction .

Em

 

[Bramblethorn]

Is it cognitive bias to think that everyone else will have heard of the people that are of interest to you? I guess so.

Em

Yep. Many celebs are far less universally recognised than we might expect.

Here's a survey somebody did of Australian university undergraduates (specifically, Caucasians who'd spent most of their life in Australia), testing their ability to recognise various celebrities by name and by face. (Name recognition = had heard of and remembered the name; face recognition = could name them from the photo or give other identifying info e.g. "the actor who played Draco Malfoy" or "the red-haired prince").

Some celebs did get 100% name recognition (only Ellen DeGeneres got 100% face recognition - even Donald Trump and Queen Elizabeth II didn't manage that!). But there are a lot on that list who I would have considered to be household names/faces, who went unrecognised by many participants.

Only 62.5% recognised Charlize Theron's name, and fewer than half could recognise her from a photo. Fewer than half had name recognition for Hugh Laurie (star of House MD, also did a bunch of previous British shows that were very popular here) or Bryan Cranston (Walter White from Breaking Bad, among other things) although they scored a bit higher on photo recognition. Outside that "Caucasians who'd spent most of their lives in Australia" I'd expect figures to be lower.

So if you write a story describing somebody as resembling Charlize Theron, fewer than two-thirds of your readers will know who you're talking about. I would be surprised if any porn actress managed to crack 50% on name or face recognition, though Literotica readers might be more knowledgeable than average there.

Fame also has a way of fading. People who are recognisable today might not be recognisable when somebody reads your story ten years from now, or they might conjure up very different images to the ones they would today.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yep. Many celebs are far less universally recognised than we might expect.

Here's a survey somebody did of Australian university undergraduates (specifically, Caucasians who'd spent most of their life in Australia), testing their ability to recognise various celebrities by name and by face. (Name recognition = had heard of and remembered the name; face recognition = could name them from the photo or give other identifying info e.g. "the actor who played Draco Malfoy" or "the red-haired prince").

Some celebs did get 100% name recognition (only Ellen DeGeneres got 100% face recognition - even Donald Trump and Queen Elizabeth II didn't manage that!). But there are a lot on that list who I would have considered to be household names/faces, who went unrecognised by many participants.

Only 62.5% recognised Charlize Theron's name, and fewer than half could recognise her from a photo. Fewer than half had name recognition for Hugh Laurie (star of House MD, also did a bunch of previous British shows that were very popular here) or Bryan Cranston (Walter White from Breaking Bad, among other things) although they scored a bit higher on photo recognition. Outside that "Caucasians who'd spent most of their lives in Australia" I'd expect figures to be lower.

So if you write a story describing somebody as resembling Charlize Theron, fewer than two-thirds of your readers will know who you're talking about. I would be surprised if any porn actress managed to crack 50% on name or face recognition, though Literotica readers might be more knowledgeable than average there.

Fame also has a way of fading. People who are recognisable today might not be recognisable when somebody reads your story ten years from now, or they might conjure up very different images to the ones they would today.

I know - we inhabit these bubbles don’t we. They are very important [to us] bubbles, but bubbles nevertheless.

Em