Unpublished

[lovecraft68]

When I said the root word (censor) specifies "official," I was using the dictionary, just as you were, not an ancient Roman coin.

And I can guarantee you that the term isn't used in court for anything but government or other entity with authority behind it activity. (Cite a court case to the contrary.)

That's your problem. That's why it's wheels spinning to use it in this context. You lose any common ground from the get go.

But go ahead and play in an irrelevant position. It don't matter to what's really going on.

That's what's so frustrating about this. You guys are shooting yourselves in the foot by stubbornly hanging on to a nonstarter argument and looking the wrong way.

and you're an attorney now right asshat? Must have been tough to go to law school amongst your other one hundred and fifty careers.

This is of no concern for you because no one buys your garbage anyway. You may as well give it away, like you do to Excessia for the ability to suckle onto the teat of a big name.

I notice you have made many new friends lately, must just be me though right? Jury's put on you, Pilot. You're a pretentious, swiftboating, lying coward who wouldn't stand for anything if your life depended on it.

One wonders how you manage to sit upright without a spine.

 

[sr71plt]

I certainly seem to have you worried, though, sweetie. Just can't get enough of me. You spend so much time trying to get my attention and pretending you are as successful as I am (to the extent of swiftboating, manipulating votes, and cheating contests in the small fishbowl you swim in here).

If you had research skills, with what you already know, you'd probably be able to find out that I do have an international law degree. (Which, yes, is an entirely different line of law, but which makes your post all the funnier.)

(I see you picked up a new "friend"--colddiesel--too. )

 

[Stella_Omega]

Because if this gets by, then they will never, ever, ever, go after free sites now will they?

Cute you think that.

Is this not about getting paid all of a sudden?

 

[sr71plt]

Because if this gets by, then they will never, ever, ever, go after free sites now will they?

Cute you think that.

They could conceivably--but then, the sky conceivably could fall too. But that's not what you are whining about. You're whining about not being able to publish nearly illiterate (to go with the readership of the genre) self-published (because you can't find a publisher) books about you fucking and torturing your sister. That's your sole beef.

 

[colddiesel]

The ways in which people think...

Endlessly fascinating.

Quite so Stella. I never thought that I would follow a thread in which I agreed with yourself and sr71plt not only in general terms but in detail - never happened before. It feels strange.

Lovecraft - read and understand: before you respond to any thread. It might help you.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

and you're an attorney now right asshat? Must have been tough to go to law school amongst your other one hundred and fifty careers.

This is of no concern for you because no one buys your garbage anyway. You may as well give it away, like you do to Excessia for the ability to suckle onto the teat of a big name.

I notice you have made many new friends lately, must just be me though right? Jury's put on you, Pilot. You're a pretentious, swiftboating, lying coward who wouldn't stand for anything if your life depended on it.

One wonders how you manage to sit upright without a spine.

PILOT was a certified valet, door opener, and suitcase lugger at AARP.

 

[TxRad]

PILOT was a certified valet, door opener, and suitcase lugger at AARP.

As usual, you are the garbage dump kid.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

As usual, you are the garbage dump kid.

If you wanna snag a Bass you gotta use the right bait.

 

[TxRad]

If you wanna snag a Bass you gotta use the right bait.

Bass are easy to catch. Like a lot of people around here, just piss them off and they open their big mouths. Set the hook.

 

[PennLady]

Because if this gets by, then they will never, ever, ever, go after free sites now will they?

Cute you think that.

Well, thanks. Condescend much? There is nothing to "get by" here. PayPal is enforcing a term of service that is on their books -- go to the link I included an earlier post. Why they decided to suddenly get busy enforcing it now, I don't know.

Why would PayPal go after the free sites? You don't need PayPal to read this stories on Lit or other free sites. For sites that have premium, pay memberships, they would probably need another payment processor.

But it gets back to this -- you do not have a right to get paid for your speech/expression. You have a right to speak and a right to express, and that's as far as it goes. No one is obligated to help you get that speech out there. That's up to you.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well, thanks. Condescend much? There is nothing to "get by" here. PayPal is enforcing a term of service that is on their books -- go to the link I included an earlier post. Why they decided to suddenly get busy enforcing it now, I don't know.

Why would PayPal go after the free sites? You don't need PayPal to read this stories on Lit or other free sites. For sites that have premium, pay memberships, they would probably need another payment processor.

But it gets back to this -- you do not have a right to get paid for your speech/expression. You have a right to speak and a right to express, and that's as far as it goes. No one is obligated to help you get that speech out there. That's up to you.

I am as condescending as people are to me. I'm sure the consensus here (besides I'm nuts, which is of course up for debate) is that "isn't that funny he and others still think this is worth fighting, isn't it funny he gets riled up over people dictating his rights to him, isn't he cute thinking speaking his mind works.

Aside from that the other side of the double edge sword is mostly being over looked here. Here it is mostly about "making money" many people sell quiet a bit here and Kitt has a million dollar a year income on the line as does Coker.

But the other side of the coin is on the onus of the buyer. Mc?visa now telling us what we can purchase with our money.

Now in the case of a CC well I suppose it in a sense is not "our" money we're "fronting" it, but we do pay it back.

In the case of a lot of paypal accounts like mine where the money s coming from e-bay, then that is my money all day long. They will now tell me what I can purchase?

If you're okay with that, that's your right and your business.

Others are not okay with and that is their right and their business, and we should not be looked down upon because that's how we feel.

Lit is pretty damn close to in bred. The same people in the same forums arguing or talking amongst themselves.

Think I'm an idiot? Okay, no problem. But I guess that means that the thousands of people petitioning and blogging and tweeting and fighting this are all idiots then right?

None of them have a clue? It's an army of irrational LC's out there is that it?

As I have said to the biggest D-bag on this forum, contact Selena Kitt through her lit page and tell her what an idiot she is.

tell her to shut down her close to 7 figure a year business down and go back to being a stay at home mom, because she's just being stupid.

Tell her that you and others who have little to no vested interest in this, have spoken and everyone running around fighting this is wrong.

Talk about condescending.

 

[mikey2much]

This is about more than just porn

When we have people running for president on a platform of doing away with healthcare, birth-control and being able to pass laws that re-enforce their religion, I think it is silly to have discussions like this. If you can't see that we are under attack from all sides, then maybe your ignorance will save you from the pain of losing your rights.

Tex, Pilot, and Stella, I have always thought that you guys were pretty smart about the way things are, I am really surprised that you are taking the side that you have chosen, and disappointed too. It really isn't important if they can sell their books or not by using Paypal, if the people manage to get Paypal to back down for now then I look for the Post Office to start enforcing their own rules against mailing the materials. They have their rules against porn, guns and dangerous materials, that they could start to enforce. I feel sure that Fedx and Ups would follow suit, and you guys would support their right to do so.

We are having our rights whittled away bit by bit. I for one am going to at least raise a cry against it instead of just sadly shaking my head and saying that they have the right to do it.

Looking at it from your point of view, Ann Frank was just another outlaw in hiding and anybody helping her was also an outlaw. I would have tried to help her, you guys would have explained that she was a jew and it was the right of the government to kill her, its the law after all. Sometimes just because it legal does not make it right. This is one of those times, I wish you guys could see that.

Stella, you were talking about the times in the past when you could mail stuff in envelopes, those days are gone. Today there are no envelopes or privacy, everything is out in the open and the powers that be wheather governemnt or private companies has the means to invade each and every part of our lives. If you continiue to back their rights to do so it will only get much worst.

I have no problem seeing the day they will come into your home and check your bookshelves and computers for reading materials that are not considered 'safe' to read. It will all be for our saftey and for our own good, and you will be agreeing with them then too.

I feel that I am watching the sunset of american freedom, but you guys don't see the darkness coming yet. If people as sharp as you are going along with it, it is even harder to watch for people like me, who hoped that you guys would be on the team fighting against it.

You don't have to go to the trouble of telling me that I am stupid and don't understand what I'm talking about. I know that you feel that way, by the time you wake up I fear it will be too late. I think it might be too late already.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Apples and oranges, Mikey. Paypal's policies refer to purchases, not free speech.

It's the same with any service. When I was looking for hosting, I contacted the management, andasked them what their policies were. Lots of web hosting services told me that they would not allow pornography. Some of them said they would allow "erotica but not porn." Some hosts say they have a free speech policy. I chose one of those.

It's a lot harder to find a payment gateway that allows adult material and is affordable. Money people have always sucked on that side of things.

 

[TxRad]

That is so over the top and out in left field it doesn't even need a reply.

Please don't put words in my mouth that you never heard come out of it.

This is about money, companies are tired of losing it. They have a way to stop the lose and they are using it. There are no "rights" involved. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[sr71plt]

Tex, Pilot, and Stella, I have always thought that you guys were pretty smart about the way things are, I am really surprised that you are taking the side that you have chosen, and disappointed too.

As Stella responded, I think this is because you aren't absorbing the actual issue. You're letting the manipulators walk you down an irrelevant path.

 

[PennLady]

I am as condescending as people are to me. I'm sure the consensus here (besides I'm nuts, which is of course up for debate) is that "isn't that funny he and others still think this is worth fighting, isn't it funny he gets riled up over people dictating his rights to him, isn't he cute thinking speaking his mind works.

That's not what I'm saying, and it's presumptuous of you to put words in my mouth. I have never said anyone shouldn't protest, in fact, I've said the opposite many times. You have your freedom of speech, so use it (as you in particular have) to tell PayPal you don't like this. I can tell them I don't either, but my word doesn't carry as much weight, in this case, as I don't have a PayPal account.

PayPal does not confer any rights on you and they cannot take them away. All they can do is honor the terms of service that you agreed to when you created an account with them.

But the other side of the coin is on the onus of the buyer. Mc?visa now telling us what we can purchase with our money.

Now in the case of a CC well I suppose it in a sense is not "our" money we're "fronting" it, but we do pay it back.

This is a nifty graphic representation of how a credit card purchase works.

No, it is not your money with a credit card. You are borrowing from the CC company, and yes, they can still say, you can use our card in these circumstances and not in others. Paying it back isn't the issue -- it's not your money. Now, I have been looking but haven't found a terms of service agreement from a CC, as I've been curious about that. I know that PayPal is blaming the CC's, but I'm not sure how right that is.

In the case of a lot of paypal accounts like mine where the money s coming from e-bay, then that is my money all day long. They will now tell me what I can purchase?

If you're okay with that, that's your right and your business.

No, no no. There's a difference. The MONEY is yours. You are keeping it in an ACCOUNT. How you use the PayPal service to spend the money in the account is subject to the TOS that you agreed to when you set up the account. You can take that money OUT of the PayPal account and spend it as you please.

Others are not okay with and that is their right and their business, and we should not be looked down upon because that's how we feel.

I'm not looking down on you. Yes, you have a right to be upset -- it's all part of that freedom of expression thing. So tell PayPal -- write them, email, call, close your account, tweet, blog, etc. I've said myself I do not agree with this; all I'm saying is that it's in the TOS so it was there for the users to see.

Think I'm an idiot? Okay, no problem. But I guess that means that the thousands of people petitioning and blogging and tweeting and fighting this are all idiots then right?

None of them have a clue? It's an army of irrational LC's out there is that it?

For God's sake, LC, I am not saying that. However, you don't seem to want to see or hear any arguments from the other side. Apparently they must be wrong because -- why?

tell her to shut down her close to 7 figure a year business down and go back to being a stay at home mom, because she's just being stupid.

Tell her that you and others who have little to no vested interest in this, have spoken and everyone running around fighting this is wrong.

Talk about condescending.

Look, I don't want Selena to shut down her business, no matter the figures involved. I never said she was being stupid, nor that anyone fighting this is wrong. I never said I didn't have a vested interest. You seem to think that because I (or whoever) don't agree with you straight down the line, we must be "the bad guys." Not true.

I don't see why PayPal cares what you spend your money on, except that obviously it would want to make sure the purchases are legal. Any business would want that.

All I'm saying is that there are other sides of this debate, and that PayPayl cannot take any civil rights from you, as they haven't given you any.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Others are not okay with and that is their right and their business, and we should not be looked down upon because that's how we feel.

Think I'm an idiot? Okay, no problem. But I guess that means that the thousands of people petitioning and blogging and tweeting and fighting this are all idiots then right?

None of them have a clue? It's an army of irrational LC's out there is that it?

Look,feelings are okay. I'm upset about the paypal problem too, I have been upset about it for ten years.

it's an easy and convenient and affordable way to do business, as long as your business falls within Paypal's terms of use.

But to go ahead and build Paypal into your business-- which is not going to conform to Paypal's terms of use -- which was in place before you started? That's stupid. And then to have feelings about how this isn't fair when Paypal's terms of use bite you in the ass-- which you stuck out there into it's teeth? That's being an idiot, yes indeed. That's being irrational.

If thousands of people are ignoring the facts, there are thousands of idiots. That's not new either.

 

[alwayswantedto]

<deleted>

 

[PennLady]

Nobody here has been informed by Paypal what their motives are. It may or may not be just about the money. If Paypal executives haven't explained why they're doing what they're doing, then everyone is simply expressing an opinion and nobody has the facts.

This is also true. I have poked around a bit, trying to find a PayPal press release or something, but haven't found anything about it. All I've found is probably what everyone else has seen, the Smashwords emails and press releases that refer to the PayPal communications. I really would love to see something from them about this.

I've also been searching for any thing similar to PayPal's "Acceptable Uses" from the credit card companies, since PayPal is saying that that's part of the reason their doing it (well, according to Smashwords, anyway). Nothing yet. Guess the next time I get an account update I'll have to look at it.

On the other hand, PayPal doesn't really have to explain why they're doing it. I wish they would, but as we've said, it's in their terms of service, so...

 

[Stella_Omega]

it doesn't matter what Paypal's reasons are.

Not in a capitalist society.

What matters is-- who will come up with the Next Better Service? And, how soon?

 

[sr71plt]

What matters is-- who will come up with the Next Better Service? And, how soon?

Or will Paypal change their service terms? That's certainly in the equation too. (Or, more likely, go back to just not enforcing them--especially if folks don't piss them off or put too high a profile on it. They ignored them for years, which should be a hint on what they really want to do.)

 

[Stella_Omega]

Or will Paypal change their service terms? That's certainly in the equation too. (Or, more likely, go back to just not enforcing them--especially if folks don't piss them off or put too high a profile on it. They ignored them for years, which should be a hint on what they really want to do.)

Have you heard the rule of parasitism? A parasite can live happily on a host as long as it doesn't make itself too big a burden-- that's when the host starts trying to get rid of the problem.

From the very beginning, Paypal has frozen accounts that had financially deleterious habits.

There didn't use to be this much incest and animal porn out there for sale, honest. That means there wasn't such an identifiable chargeback issue. But that horse has left the stable.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not sure the chargeback issue is that real either. My e-books have gotten some chargebacks (not many), but they don't concentrate by genre. They seem to be across the board. I think the chargebacks are mainly cheaters working the system. And I think the answer to that particular one is simple--end the policy of returns on e-books. If all the distributors do it, it'll just be one of those things buyers have to swallow if they want an e-book. They've got folks hooked on e-books and have sold a slug of readers now that need to be fed.

The frozen accounts is my biggest beef with Paypal. Mine haven't been frozen (there's a good way to prevent this for those who want to think rather than just vent). But I keep them close to empty on the possibility this might happen. The policy should, I think, be to remit the money, maybe with a transfer fee (their fees are high anyway) when they close the account. They have every right to close an account that doesn't meet the signed terms, of course. (I image the loss of money in a closed account is also covered in the terms--but I think it's sleazy.)

 

[Stella_Omega]

You write incest or animal porn, SR?

I don't write incest, but I have written animal porn, in the sense of sentient shapeshifters fucking while shifted. It never ever occurred to me to try to sell that through paypal. I can't imagine anyone imagining that would fly.

but people can convince themselves of almost anything. There was a crack in the wall once, it should be there forever. The company ignores its own policies for a while, but-- there is a reason those policies were written in, in the first place.

 

[mikey2much]

" financially deleterious habits."

I like the sound of that, My life in three words.