Unpublished

[R. Richard]

I have had to unpublish some of my books in Smashwords. The 'problem' is incest. Of course, they're some of my best selling books.
For those of you who haven't yet got the word, the basis of the problem is PayPal. It isn't really a matter of censorship, but of business economics. The problem is chargebacks. Someone buys something and then disputes the charge. A major problem seems to be that people buy books with lurid titles and then their spouse refuses to pay for the books. The costs to PayPal have apparently become a major problem for the company.
Some of you will reply that what's needed is to find a publisher who doesn't rely on PayPal. Unfortunately, Mastercard and Visa are having the same problems and they're charging impossible fees to publishers who have a lot of chargebacks. It's a business problem, not censorship.
I have some books published in a BDSM site and they're also having to purge incest books.
The problem goes past just incest, to 'pseudo incest,' where step-parents and/or step-kids have sex.
The basis of the problem is people who don't want their spouse reading incest stories. That's censorship, but it appears that it's here to stay.
Is there a publisher who will still publish incest stories and doesn't use Paypal? I would like to get my incest stories back published and making money.
By the way, one of my books, 'Summer of Sex' tiptoes past incest and I was considering rewriting the story to include incest, hoping to hype the sales a bit. No more.
There is a large market for incest stories. Some of my best sellers have been incest stories. What's needed is a publisher who will publish incest and operates via check, not credit card or PayPal. It's a business opportunity for someone here in Literotica. (The problem will be the number of bad checks and something will have to be worked out with the publisher's bank. It's against the law to write a bad check, but the scumbags will do nothing about the problem. they too busy pimping for they mama.)

 

[PennLady]

Are you talking paper check? No one's going to do that. As for electronically, you'd have to guarantee the safety and privacy of a person's account. That probably takes more resources than a lot of people have.

I'm not disagreeing, not at all. It's just unfortunate that it's so complicated.

 

[estragon]

So it isn't a right-wing conspiracy after all?

 

[lovecraft68]

So now paypal/mc/visa are responsible for disagreements in the marital household? Perhaps their policy should be a limited number of chargebacks or no dam,n charge backs at all if it was purchased legitimately with a card not reported as stolen tough shit.

I want to thank you OP for pointing out how lucrative incest is. There are some idiots on this site who do not believe there is a market for it. There is a huge market for it.

A month ago I took a chance and slipped a mother son onto amazon. Well slipped is not the right word. The title although nothing stupid like "I want to fuck mommy" pretty much spelled out what it was and I tagged it appropriately as incest. the description screamed incest. I was not trying to mislead anyone.

First off proves Amazon does not even remotely attempt to review books that are submitted (they most likely spot check every so many).

second of all the results? 80 sales between US/UK in one week, now I know nothing about what a good sales record would be, but it was my second book on there so I am a nobody with no following whatsoever. I made $150 on the thing in a week before it must have been reported and they blocked it. Imagine what an established author could make with it?

Point is there is a vast market for this material and these people are idiots for picking on it. it is a fantasy just like BDSM and group and water sports and anything else. As for the argument its illegal? Fiction is full of illegal activities from murder to cannibalism. It's make believe just like the rest of it.

Some day someone is going to be smart enough to open a site that just carries incest and they are going to make one hell of a profit.

I have 13 sw titles 8 are incest and any one of them outsells the other five every month combined. Tomorrow I will pull all 13 because it's not even worth it to leave the five up there and I feel a mass exodus should be in order to get people like Coker to pursue another payment option.

In an e-mail he sent to me, he said that it was a "slippery slope" and if it slips any more he will explore another option other than paypal. So he is willing to lose the best selling genre on his site. But if they go farther well than....

well than what Mark? You will bend over and take it in the ass again (unless they make anal illegal as well) once you give the bully your milk money once they will come back.

Hopefully Coker and Kitt and others are doing what they need to, but actively seeking a solution to this behind the scenes. I hope so because for reasons far beyond this I so want to see paypal destroyed.

 

[PennLady]

Coker also noted in his press release that simply not using PayPal is not a feasible option for Smashwords, as the payment method is "hard-wired" into the way the site is built. So it's not so easy.

I have my doubts that what the OP says is the entire reason for this; in fact, what I'd like to see is a press release or other statement from PayPal explaining this, but I don't know if there is one.

 

[sr71plt]

I want to thank you OP for pointing out how lucrative incest is. There are some idiots on this site who do not believe there is a market for it. There is a huge market for it.

Point out where anyone has posted that to the forum. You are such a one-dimensional cartoon character.

 

[lovecraft68]

Point out where anyone has posted that to the forum. You are such a one-dimensional cartoon character.

There are conversations that go on here beyond what is posted. Especially by those that fear having to deal with being stalked by limp dicked stone throwing parrots like yourself. Or fear being followed and trolled by certain others and their endless alts (took me awhile to realize that the AH is really a mini GB, but the alts here are designed to hide behind not have fun with like over there.)

I think if anyone on this site that is consistently one dimensional it's you, you dried up prune. You don't give a rats ass about anything, but yourself, but need to have something to say about everything.

 

[PennLady]

Point out where anyone has posted that to the forum. You are such a one-dimensional cartoon character.

This was in the OP:

There is a large market for incest stories. Some of my best sellers have been incest stories.

These may be true statements, but they are not proof of anything, or they are anecdotal at best. It would also depend on the definition of "large market," I guess.

 

[Boxlicker101]

This was in the OP:

This was in the OP:
Quote:
There is a large market for incest stories. Some of my best sellers have been incest stories.

These may be true statements, but they are not proof of anything, or they are anecdotal at best. It would also depend on the definition of "large market," I guess.

It's more than just anecdotal. Incest is also the "largest selling" category on Lit., at least in terms of views.

I just might start posting some of my Incest tales on Amazon. The other stories I have there certainly aren't very much in demand.

 

[sr71plt]

It's more than just anecdotal. Incest is also the "largest selling" category on Lit., at least in terms of views.

I just might start posting some of my Incest tales on Amazon. The other stories I have there certainly aren't very much in demand.

Lit. isn't SELLING anything, Box. Apples and oranges.

I'm looking for Lovecraft68 to back up the statement that "There are some idiots on this site who do not believe there is a market for it." I'm betting he's not going to be able to do it--that he'll just continue throwing his one-dimensional, brinkmanship exaggerations up in the air.

As far as posting some of your incest tales to Amazon, Box, you don't seem to have been reading the threads on that. You've missed the bubble on offering incest for sale at Amazon (or most anyplace else, for that matter).

 

[sr71plt]

Coker also noted in his press release that simply not using PayPal is not a feasible option for Smashwords, as the payment method is "hard-wired" into the way the site is built. So it's not so easy.

I have my doubts that what the OP says is the entire reason for this; in fact, what I'd like to see is a press release or other statement from PayPal explaining this, but I don't know if there is one.

I gave a link on an earlier thread to the text of Smashword's extensive e-mail on this. Did you read that?

 

[Handley_Page]

May a completely ignorant observer ask a couple of questions, please?.
You see, I have not risen to the dizzy heights of being that good my work will sell so I am not familiar with the market and commerce, as it were.

R.Richard:-
It isn't really a matter of censorship, but of business economics. The problem is chargebacks. Someone buys something and then disputes the charge. A major problem seems to be that people buy books with lurid titles and then their spouse refuses to pay for the books. The costs to PayPal have apparently become a major problem for the company.


It strikes me that there are two parts to this bit.
a] 'The Lurid Title'.. I guess we all make the best we can of a title, but do publishers put another (possibly more lurid) title on you work ? Can you ask them not to change your title without asking you first?
[this might seem a touch innocent (naive?) but it's worth asking].

b] 'refusal to pay'.
Don't these books get processed in the same way as any other goods
[pay for it and then take delivery] ?
So what's the charge-back ?

PennLady:
Are you talking paper check? No one's going to do that.

And what's wrong with payment by check (cheque) ?
You get the cheque, and when it clears send off the goods.
Or is that too simple ?

 

[sr71plt]

R.Richard:-
It isn't really a matter of censorship, but of business economics. The problem is chargebacks. Someone buys something and then disputes the charge. A major problem seems to be that people buy books with lurid titles and then their spouse refuses to pay for the books. The costs to PayPal have apparently become a major problem for the company.


It strikes me that there are two parts to this bit.
a] 'The Lurid Title'.. I guess we all make the best we can of a title, but do publishers put another (possibly more lurid) title on you work ? Can you ask them not to change your title without asking you first?
[this might seem a touch innocent (naive?) but it's worth asking].

I'm not Richard, but, yes, the publisher can change the title (but if the author doesn't accept that, it's a contract breaker unless the contract the author signs specifies differently). Most publishers won't use a title they don't think will sell--or that in the environment we're currently talking about--will lead to distributor rejection. A good many discussing this now, though, are self-published, which means the publisher and author are the same person.

'refusal to pay'.
Don't these books get processed in the same way as any other goods
[pay for it and then take delivery] ?
So what's the charge-back ?

Like most businesses, the e-book distributors have a returns policy and the payment systems have a charge challenge policy. E-books take a big hit on this, because someone can usually read an e-book and turn right around and "return" it within the time limit or dispute the charge. The charge disputes are set up so that they can do this and get away with it X number of times before the pay center cuts their access off. And apparently they are doing it a lot with e-books--and, with particular genres of e-books.

I don't put it all to spousal discovery, though. I think a lot of people are taking intentional privilege with the returns policies.

On the "can't pay by check issue, I don't know what they couldn't pay by check. It wouldn't work for me, though. I work through multiple cutouts between me and my erotica pen names, so it's blind Paypal-type accounts for me or nothing.

 

[R. Richard]

From the e-mails (plural) that I have received from my publishers, the problem isn't at the pay the author end, it's at the pay for the e-book end. The author doesn't care if the pay is for incest or for a religious tract. The problem is charge backs at the customer end.
There are any number of reasons why there might be charge backs. However, the main problems seem to occur with incest, rape and bestiality stories (or so the publishers tell me.) From the e-mails that I have received, I don't see the situation as censorship, just business concerns.
I'm still looking for an incest publisher who won't crap out on me in a few weeks or months.

 

[PennLady]

I gave a link on an earlier thread to the text of Smashword's extensive e-mail on this. Did you read that?

I actually have the text of the email up in a tab but haven't had a chance to read it all through yet.

 

[PennLady]

PennLady:
Are you talking paper check? No one's going to do that.

And what's wrong with payment by check (cheque) ?
You get the cheque, and when it clears send off the goods.
Or is that too simple ?

Nothing is wrong with it, but it's clear that there's a general movement away from paper money, both cash and check. These days, who is going to want to wait to send a paper check, which then has to be processed at the other end, before they can receive an email file? One selling point for e-books is ease and speed of delivery.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
It's more than just anecdotal. Incest is also the "largest selling" category on Lit., at least in terms of views.

I just might start posting some of my Incest tales on Amazon. The other stories I have there certainly aren't very much in demand.

Lit. isn't SELLING anything, Box. Apples and oranges.

I'm looking for Lovecraft68 to back up the statement that "There are some idiots on this site who do not believe there is a market for it." I'm betting he's not going to be able to do it--that he'll just continue throwing his one-dimensional, brinkmanship exaggerations up in the air.

As far as posting some of your incest tales to Amazon, Box, you don't seem to have been reading the threads on that. You've missed the bubble on offering incest for sale at Amazon (or most anyplace else, for that matter).

It's not an exact comparison, but it might be more like comparing peaches and apricots. People come to Lit. planning to spend an asset - time - reading a raunchy story, and they choose something in the Incest category more often than anything else. Other people go to Amazon with their kindles or in hopes of buying a raunchy paperback, and why wouldn't they also spend an asset - money - on stories about incest at least as often as any other subject?

I have been reading those threads, and I am late, but maybe not too late. I might be able to describe an offered story in terms that would get past the censors but let prospective readers know what the story is about.

 

[sr71plt]

Sorry, you can't judge what people will buy by what they will take for free (not the least because, with erotica, what they buy can be traced a whole hell of a lot easier than what they take for free on Literotica).

 

[PennLady]

I don't know if this is the link sr71 posted, but here is Smashword's email along with a number of comments. Many are from "Mark," whom I thought might be Mark Coker of Smashwords, but I don't think so. Regardless of who "Mark" is, I agree with him on a lot of points.

ETA: Went back to those comments, and "Mark" is Mark Coppock, who has a site called thetechchat.com.

 

[PennLady]

I have been reading those threads, and I am late, but maybe not too late. I might be able to describe an offered story in terms that would get past the censors but let prospective readers know what the story is about.

So you would violate a site's rules, or terms of service?

 

[sr71plt]

So, you're not going to substantiate this statement, are you, Lovecraft68?

There are some idiots on this site who do not believe there is a market for it.

So, we just chalk this up as an example of your swiftboating lies, I take it.

 

[lovecraft68]

It's more than just anecdotal. Incest is also the "largest selling" category on Lit., at least in terms of views.

I just might start posting some of my Incest tales on Amazon. The other stories I have there certainly aren't very much in demand.

You can gamble if you want to, but they will block your account if you do it more than once.

I took that one shot for the hell of it, just to see what would happen.

You also half to be very careful of trying to be too cute with misleading what is in the book.

If you try to put up incest and bill it as anything but you'll be gone first time out.

There is a friend of mine who says he puts up books saying "step incest" in the description but it is real incest.

he said he has sold a ton of these and has never had a returned copy or been reported. I believe that as I believe that anyone who will read step will read the real deal.

I also have bought a couple where there is a "she was my step mother" in the first paragraph and the entire story is "oh mom!"

Still can;t fathom why they'll lose out on the money, Amazon or anyone else.

And this BS of chargebacks is just that, BS. If Bill bought a naughty book and his wife caught him that is Bill's problem not Mastercards. Don;t award the damn charge back tell them you bought it keep it.

I'm going to start doing that with all the crap my wife buys that she doesn't need. Call and complain and refuse to pay for it. Let's see how far it gets me when it's not a porn book, but a sundress. That is why this still screams censorship, only one thing seems to be relentlessly targeted here.

 

[lovecraft68]

So, you're not going to substantiate this statement, are you, Lovecraft68?

There are some idiots on this site who do not believe there is a market for it.

So, we just chalk this up as an example of your swiftboating lies, I take it.

I am not about to start posting Pm's and private e-mails of things said to me off the site. That is something you would do.

And I have nothing to prove to the biggest liar on this site. As well as the biggest swiftboater and Scouries personal ball washer.

End of the day Pilot difference between us is I don't care what others think and we all know you do.

 

[sr71plt]

Yeah, that's what I thought you'd say.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I have been reading those threads, and I am late, but maybe not too late. I might be able to describe an offered story in terms that would get past the censors but let prospective readers know what the story is about.

So you would violate a site's rules, or terms of service?

If I thought it was worthwhile, I would, but I am mostly referring to step relationships. I am going to try to offer a story about Stephanie and her stepfather, Roger, and see what happens. I don't believe I would try to get away with Little Mandy stories, though.

One thing I need though is a cover. How do I get one, since I can't draw water.