Underdog Stories Breed People That Need a Face Stabbing.

[3113]

"Whiney women who complain about getting abused deserved to be stabbed in the face."

Excuse me, but that's twisting the argument. You are FALSELY accusing us of sexism by creating a false title. No where in the original title does Joe say "men who complain of abuse."

The topic is "Stories breed People" that's "PEOPLE"--and women count in that. And many of us have pointed out that it's just as likely to happen the other way around. The only reason that the focus has been on men whining about how bad guys get the girls and the nature of "nice guys," (rather than nice girls) is because it was a GUY who was doing the whining. THAT was the original story, right? The original question: "Why this nice guy complaint?"

And this wagging an admonishing finger at us for "grouping" folk--PLEASE. The original GUY was the one who grouped folk: 'Nice guys." It's a cliche that will not die. "Nice guys finish last." So we HAVE to discuss "nice guys" in order to figure out if it's false and ought to be laid to rest, don't we? We have to explore them, define them, figure out what people mean by that stereotype, etc. There's really no way to avoid grouping entirely except to say, "Gosh, that guy shouldn't stereotype. Too bad."

End of discussion.

So please, get off the pedestal/high horse about it.

Going back to the opposite side: if YOU would like to post a thread about "Stories breed People...etc." and talk about a female friend of yours whining about how "nice girls" never get guys, and that guys only go for bad girls, HAVE AT IT! I promise you that you will get plenty of agreement from us that these women are just as whiny and problematic as the guys.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I was unaware that lobes became furry.


Is that like having hairy palms?

Yes. They both suggest that SubJoe may have a weak spot for barking at the moon, shagging the settee, and marking his usual place in the neighborhood pub in a less than customary fashion. No wonder he's my only houseguest whose departure has not swept some of the silver along with him.

Shanglan

 

[Guest]

 

[JamesSD]

I can't believe that at my age, there are still guys out there who are whining about how "nice guys finish last".

A few things jumped out at me.

He's relying on his experience with women in high school to shape how he views women in their 20s. They act very differently.

Now, there are women out there that love assholes. And I've noticed women can do the same thing men do, in dividing people up into "good for a fuck" and "good to date". Unfortunately, a lot of women don't dip into the "dating" pool for random sex, where most men are happy to either screw or date their "dating pool". But, there are plenty of women that just want a nice, normal guy to be with.

Smart women have it tougher than smart men. It's socially acceptable for a man to date a woman less intelligent than he is. Women can rarely do so.

Being "nice" isn't enough. You have to be friendly and outgoing. You have to put at least some effort into personal appearance. I've known plenty of "nice guys" that take issue with this. Yet, it's the minority of them that doesn't care how women look.

 

[3113]

A few things jumped out at me.

He's relying on his experience with women in high school to shape how he views women in their 20s. They act very differently.

Good point. I think a lot of guys (and girls) get stuck in high school when it comes to how they view the opposite sex. They had such a bad time of it that they can't let it go--especially if it's less than a decade since they've graduated.

I recall this one guy who was still bitching about the girls who had shafted him in high school even when it came time for the 20th reunion of his class.

Adolescence makes a lasting impression.....

 

[SeaCat]

I've read this thread several times and ended up laughing each time.

I've managed to be married not once but twice.

The first time I fell in love with a wonderful redhead who stood six feet tall. She was one of the most intelligent and incredibly beautiful women you would ever see. Mikhaila was killed but a couple of weeks after we were married.

My second wife is also a redhead. (Okay, Strawberry Blonde.) We have been married for almost 14 years. (Next month it will be 14 years.)

Am I a nice guy? Some would say yes, some would say no. I will not harm a kitten or another newborn, but if you threaten me or my family your body won't be found. I will never raise my hand against a woman or a child, and yet I have no problem pounding some punk into the ground.

Many people don't agree with my values, especially politicaly, and yet I am the first one they turn to in times of need. Go figure.

I don't tolerate wife beaters or child molesters, yet I have some good friends who have hurt other people.

A good man, or a bad man is all determined by the eyes of the beholders.

Cat

Hey Guys, I know a loving young woman who needs a loving man in her life. Could you deal with a woman who can't help but help others and yet has a criminal record for sticking an eight inch steak knife into her husbands belly? I love her to death and if I wasn't married I would marry her in a heartbeat. She's a bad bitch complete with Tats and piercings but she would love the right man forever.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Yes, dear, I meant to ask you something before I accept your invitation. Has anyone swiped that darling little silver cow creamer of your Aunt Dahlia & Uncle Thomas' yet? If not, I'll be there on my birthday, thanks.

The darling little silver cow creamer is grazing peacefully with the little silver bull sugar bowl, together on their own private preserve in the locking chest in the attic. The chest bears a small tag dangling from its lock which reads "Do Not Open Until Jammies."

I'll see you on your birthday -

Shanglan

 

[Huckleman2000]

Jesus H. Fucking Christ!
The guy just got dumped for a jerk and is feeling sorry for himself and wallows in it for a bit over a few drinks, and he's tagged a complete whiner? And he's all of 24 years old?

In the spectrum of annoying social shortcomings, I'd probably rate that somewhere on the positive side of "incapable of empathy."

This is an interesting thread and all, and I appreciate the need to form generalized groups to further the discussion. Like all adages, there's an element of truth in "nice guys finish last". At least, they make lousy salesmen.

I agree that sometimes women who want "Nice Guys" merely want to control them. (Case in point, my ex-wife. ) And then the women might tire of passivity, and seek out a "Bad Boy" instead. Or the pathology plays out in the opposite way. Either way, it's a pretty shallow or misguided way of dealing with a relationship.

Sooner or later, everyone is going to go through periods where their self-confidence is dealt some blows. Their partner can react to that several ways, but often, for women, it's "stop whining and do something - you're totally bugging me". Obviously, if there's one thing that everyone on the thread agrees, it's that whining is annoying behavior, particularly to women in general, and also to men who get laid.

Another thing that seems to be a general consensus is that men who get laid feel more confident in their manliness. Whether that's justified, or whether it's a valid measure, are open to discussion. But it's generally how people work.

I think the disconnect comes where women think a "whiner" needs "mothering", when what he needs is a bit more "whoring" (to speak in archetypes). Women have fought for, and largely won, a certain respect and latitude in terms of expressing their feelings, wants, needs, goals, and so on. Yet, and this thread is somewhat of an illustration, it's still all too easy to lump men into "whiners" or "bad boys" or "confident" or "geeks". Men either pay too much attention, or too little, or demand too much. I don't think I've read any complaints about men who demand too little attention .

It just seems to me that if you want a partner that can share in your emotional highs and lows, than you've got to be willing to share his. No, whining isn't attractive, but everyone whines now and then. Even if it's whining about people who whine.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Roger (the guy from the anecdote) just amazes me.

It's like, in his world, there are jocks behind every tree ready to give him wedgies... and he's morally superior to the average man, because he sees that men are--by and large--total shit... and generalities like "jerks get all the chicks" are made truth just by saying them and referencing untold hours of coming up with this kind of stuff while home alone...

...it's like he's not even on planet Earth. He's on "geekworld". Where the less conventional you are, the better you are; and the more "sportsy" or "non-sci/fi/fantasy-friendly" you are, the less noble you are.

A planet where timidity means excellence and shyness denotes nice-ness... where everyone believes they're a genius, deserves a better job than clerking retail, and are constantly oppressed by the masses of... well, just about everyone.

If ever there was a boy who needed to get laid... and laid with sufficient frequency to de-myth it... and with sufficient variety of women to return it to a normal act of simple human nature (instead of the porno-movie/romance-novel/Hollywood-esque/bad-elf-fantasy/naive/hopeful imagery it represents)... it was Roger.

Women are... well. They're just women.

They're no more mysterious, glamorous, or essentially worshipable than men. They come in all variety, from white-trashy trailer-park chain-smoking-around-the-babies different-man-every-week skanks to the Ms. Oh-So-Young-And-Pretty intelligent sensitive tasteful fun tight firm trim lean busty power-walking club-hopping blonde bombshell sexpot.

The sex is, similarly, varied. The hottest chick isn't always the best lay (though often the best fantasy and the most attractive). The chunky chica may be ball-drainingly good at it (personally, I have found no solid trend to flatter either group--its pretty random).

But, I'll be damned if there aren't a ton of guys out there that just as soon believe the more downtrodden you are, socially, the more credit you should be given, personally, and the more highly regarded and specially unique you ought be considered, essentially.

And in the end, we get people like Roger.

People who end up looking around at the end of the day, wondering why nobody ELSE gets it that they should be given a ton of credit for being an excellent partner, should be regarded in the highest as a quality individual by all, and ought be considered special and powerfully (or often "tragically") unique--giving them dimension... people who build up a world of nonsense and self-eggrandizment all aroudn them and then don't get why nobody else plays that game with them, too.

Heaven forbid people like Roger should get with the real world, and not just say "I'm special and worthwhile"... but actually prove it, day in and day out, as an act of character--not just lip-service and wishful fantasizing.

 

[English Lady]

...
Heaven forbid people like Roger should get with the real world, and not just say "I'm special and worthwhile"... but actually prove it, day in and day out, as an act of character--not just lip-service and wishful fantasizing.

Sorry to condense your post to this one sentance, but this is the one that jumped out at me, and Ithink seems to be what just about eveyone posting here has said.

You've got to get on with life, live it, do your best with what you've got and the good stuff will follow. Wallowing just gets your ass usnk further in the mud.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I don't aim for nice- I aim for kind.

I think that kindness is an important characteristic and 'nice' is a dumping ground for too many things, positive and negative. 'nice' too often comes across as 'fake'- ie. trying too hard. kindness comes from the heart. nice comes from some fear of being disliked or something and it can make people doormats and martyres.

just be kind.

 

[NoJo]

I don't aim for nice- I aim for kind.

Oh, I know your kind...

 

[CharleyH]

I can't believe that at my age, there are still guys out there who are whining about how "nice guys finish last".

A friend of my girl's, we'll call him Roger, managed to borrow my ear for an hour while he went on and on and on and on about how he just doesn't understand women... and how they're so superficial and only want "jerks who treat them badly".

He ran the full gamut of high school girls never giving him the time of day, and how high school is to blame for not putting enough emphasis on academics and letting "sports and brutes win the day". And then hit college and how "even smart girls, college girls, only want to party and drink and sleep with whoever has the most money or the coolest car". He finished up with how his girlfriend had dumped him, after he treated her like an angel for two years, to go out with some other guy who was an idiot.

He told me that the dating pool for smart and genuinely nice guys like him is so small and "all the good ones are taken".

I drank three beers listening to this, and a margarita... but the booze, dear God, did not curb my desire to slap him like a bitch. The public setting? That did it. But, man, oh man--he's twenty-four. Twenty-four!

Jesus H. Christ.

Well, I can see why he won't get laid by the babes he wants. Girls really hate a whiner and can sniff it on the first date.

 

[NoJo]

Well, I can see why he won't get laid by the babes he wants. Girls really hate a whiner and can sniff it on the first date.

If I whine on our first date, will you promise to sniff it?

 

[CharleyH]

If I whine on our first date, will you promise to sniff it?

All I hope is that you don't hump my leg, SJ. And yes dear, I will sniff the Dom Perignon, or better. lol ( I reallly wanted to say the Dom P, but - couldn't, even as a joke - LOL)

 

[NoJo]

All I hope is that you don't hump my leg, SJ. And yes dear, I will sniff the Dom Perignon, or better. lol ( I reallly wanted to say the Dom P, but - couldn't, even as a joke - LOL)

Dom Perignon, eh? I think we'd might have to skip dessert, unless we go Dutch. Unless you're happy with an 1/8th of weed and some popcorn, in which case, let's stay in.

 

[CharleyH]

Dom Perignon, eh? I think we'd might have to skip dessert, unless we go Dutch. Unless you're happy with an 1/8th of weed and some popcorn, in which case, let's stay in.

The Dutch do not know how to date. Is that where you learned? The weed you can have to yourself, as for popcorn, WE GET OUR OWN - I am a selfish lover.

 

[NoJo]

I am a selfish lover.

Okay, I'll get the oysters.

 

[CharleyH]

Okay, I'll get the oysters.

I will get the "dirty" Martini's

 

[Guest]

I'd just like to watch Sub Joe hump your leg.

 

[NoJo]

I'd just like to watch Sub Joe hump your leg.

I'd do it if she dressed up as a mailman.

 

[Guest]

I'd do it if she dressed up as a mailman.

Those knee socks are quite a turn-on.

 

[CharleyH]

I'd just like to watch Sub Joe hump your leg.

I am sure he would LOVE that as much as I would. Too bad about his back - I think he is relegated to voyeurism .... hm (dirty alternatives abound) hm.

 

[NoJo]

I am sure he would LOVE that as much as I would. Too bad about his back - I think he is relegated to voyeurism .... hm (dirty alternatives abound) hm.

Yes, I'm not much use to you lying on my back

 

[CharleyH]

Yes, I'm not much use to you lying on my back

Actually you are LOL. Best thing for a man is bound, and what better way than him being bondaged by his own body for women (or Carson) to do with what they please?