Underdog Stories Breed People That Need a Face Stabbing.

[SEVERUSMAX]

Ok, I just have to ring in here. My bet is that this guy only wants a certain 'type' of woman- ie thin, beautiful, big breasts, nice ass, ect. In other words, maybe he's not so 'nice' after all because truth be told, he's pretty damn superficial. I notice that most people that say stuff like "oh the babe's never date guys/girls like us- they are SO superficial!" don't consider that they of course are being superficial themselves.

For all people- STOP worrying about who WON'T date you and start focusing on the people that will. STOP wanting only what you can't have, and be willing to take a second look at all those you've been so quick to dismiss yourself.

Yep. "Shallow Hal Syndrome" is alive and well. Both sexes do it and blame it on the other. Too true.

 

[Boota]

I'm really a nice guy, but I look, live, and generally behave like the "bad boy", and I play in a rock band, so I get laid all the time. Good thing being myself works. I couldn't pull off acting like something I'm not. I have friends who play those games and treat women like shit. I just don't have that in me.

 

[3113]

I'm really a nice guy, but I look, live, and generally behave like the "bad boy"

(Taking a second look at Boota's AV) Mmmm. You look like a pretty nice guy to me.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Yep. "Shallow Hal Syndrome" is alive and well. Both sexes do it and blame it on the other. Too true.

Shallow Hal syndrome. Yeah, I like that.

 

[Munachi]

about the looks thing - i think that is a bit complicated. on the one hand, yes, that can be a problem if someone goes for only a certain type (and that being the type that is popular with everyone and thus difficult to get at) and on the other hand i can understand that. maybe it's also an age thing, don't know, but for me looks do matter - after all i want to be attracted to a person sexually, and there are a lot of people i see and can tell i am not attracted to them. and i guess, in a way that is superficial, but it just is that way.

(by this i don't want to say i only am interested in guys that look like hollywood actors, but rather, there has to be something about them also look wise that attracts me)

 

[elsol]

Nice guys aren't judgmental, ergo...

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[DeeplyHisForever]

I personally am attracted to the " i don't really give a shit about you " attitude because deep down inside they really do care alot and it's nice to know your special to them and they treat you better than anyone else. Plus they are take charge men ( a plus in the bedroom ) My fiance is mean to everyone but me and I love it! It's just a matter of opinion in what you like, all women are different, some like nice guys some like assholes. An arrogant guy on the edge of sanity is sooooo sexy, but if they can be sweet to you thats when they are a winner !! ( keep in mind... I might be mildly insane... lol and these guys are great if your into BDSM )... hehe However the nice guys finish last theroy is shit, I know plenty of women looking for that wonderfully nice guy * but they are control freaks who want someone to be submissive to them, nice guys easier to control *

 

[tolyk]

I just have an observation to make here.

I've seen throughout this thread people being clumped together in groups based on attitude. Not all people who have similar attitudes have similar outlooks/behavioural patterns. Not all jerks are going to be nice inside, not all nice guys are going to be shy, not all shy guys are going to be nice.

I used to be one of the nice guys, and I'll say that I've seen a few different categories even within the nice guy stereotype. To just say "nice guy" isn't very descriptive at all. Sure, shy makes a great modifier for it, but we're writers here, I'm sure we can be slightly more descriptive for something that's springing into an indepth conversation.

Oh, and Joe, noone needs a face stabbing, aside from that, interesting thread.

 

[cherries_on_snow]

Ok, I just have to ring in here. My bet is that this guy only wants a certain 'type' of woman- ie thin, beautiful, big breasts, nice ass, ect. In other words, maybe he's not so 'nice' after all because truth be told, he's pretty damn superficial. I notice that most people that say stuff like "oh the babe's never date guys/girls like us- they are SO superficial!" don't consider that they of course are being superficial themselves.

For all people- STOP worrying about who WON'T date you and start focusing on the people that will. STOP wanting only what you can't have, and be willing to take a second look at all those you've been so quick to dismiss yourself.

Interesting point. And thanks to the OP for the thread. I absolutely agree with the first post. It is even sadder when the fellow complaining isn't 24, but 42!

Nice guys who can't find or keep women, in my experience (personal experience) have tended to be:

1. shallow hals posing as nice guys (as sweetnpetite suggests)
2. unaware of either the location or importance of the clitoris
3. precluding involvement with others due to excessive time spent in hobbies or porn. (is porn a hobby?)
4. dull as dirt and compelled to prove it endlessly
5. interesting but poor listeners

I have dated many of these and do actually prefer to date (wo)men who are sane and kind.

 

[Guest]

Can you set him up with a girl who's brutally, brutally honest?

I think Abs is married.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I just have an observation to make here.

I've seen throughout this thread people being clumped together in groups based on attitude. Not all people who have similar attitudes have similar outlooks/behavioural patterns. Not all jerks are going to be nice inside, not all nice guys are going to be shy, not all shy guys are going to be nice.

I used to be one of the nice guys, and I'll say that I've seen a few different categories even within the nice guy stereotype. To just say "nice guy" isn't very descriptive at all. Sure, shy makes a great modifier for it, but we're writers here, I'm sure we can be slightly more descriptive for something that's springing into an indepth conversation.

Oh, and Joe, noone needs a face stabbing, aside from that, interesting thread.

What an excellent post, Tolyk.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

So we've got a few different areas.

Nice Guy
Mother F***ing Pile of **** ***** ***** ***** ***** **** and sometimes u

Geek or otherwise assorted loser
Cool Guy


And like any square bracket you see in economics or otherwise the two from each section can each pair with one from another section. The difference is what that means and how rare that is. Cool, nice guys exist. Guys who have always had it made and are still able to give a woman the respect she deserves. The problem is that there are a bit rare and also tend to get snatched up. Most men have a symptom wherein they are willing to trade sex for morality. To get laid a lot by interesting people, many men will throw away doing right by a woman. Sad but true. And a man who is cool and confident enough to be able to ask a large pool of women for sexual favors with moderate success has little incentive to do right by them or become a nicer person.


So what about the flip of the coin. Is the "nice guys finish last" adage true? It's more complicated than that. The problem is that you can try to game the system against the Cool Mother F***ing Pile of **** ***** ***** ***** ***** **** and sometimes u cross section by looking for people who do not pursue. The geek section is usually piss poor about pursuing especially in comparison with the shotgun tactics of Cool people. Geeks also tend to have interests that don't put them in easy access of most traditional meetups (like avoidance of parties or not doing much bar hopping). So you game the system and find the second trap:

Geeks can be Mother F***ing Pile of **** ***** ***** ***** ***** **** and sometimes u as well. So how do you sift those who know and understand the importance of treating a woman with respect from those who whine about not having a girlfriend and then start pissing on her once they have her? Well....dunno. The advantage of a geek nice guy is if you actually can find one in the tiny little hole they live in, they tend to be vociferous in their beliefs in how a woman can be treated. But then there is trap 3. How do you know they aren't just blowing smoke and they don't have Mother F***ing Pile of **** ***** ***** ***** ***** **** and sometimes u hiding in the background? Well for that, there isn't a good way. But frankly if you wanted it to be easier to find a good one you should have been a lesbian instead.




All righty. So a few quick clarifiers. Yeah, geek and cool aren't neccesarily the best terms but its fucking early and I don't give a shit. Yeah, yeah, me and men. Doesn't mean I don't have a point.


Finally, the problem really outlined is that both nice guys and insecure, but bastardly people have a tendency to not shotgun pursue women. The first out of respect and possibly fear. Empathy, genuine love, a tendency to think first are all qualities that can make one nicer to their significant other. It also tends to make one chicken out of asking or to merely avoid asking every last one they can get their hands on. There are exceptions of course, different pathways, but a lot of the nice guys I know have a bit of this symptom. The benefit is it also makes them loyal and fiercly monogomous.

The problem of course arises in the latter. Those antisocial or insecure people with bastards inside just waiting to come out. A world of selfish hells from whence there is no escape and no woman can escape their shittiness. The ultimate losing button where there isn't even the joyful experience of someone having the decency to try sleaze. I have seen more of that case than I should and have seen far too many women hurt by it.





And so know we move on to a final topic. Age and its correlation to "being in relationship" and nicety. Bollocks. It's part of the "lose your virginity" as fast as possible male syndrome of bullshit. Waiting for Ms. Right, not bothering to pursue, or figuring you've already lost the game, do not make one less than someone who has someone else or who has gotten laid more times than them. Cloudy's husband has had a beautiful women with a lot of brains and heart for years and years and years. Is he somehow superior to rgraham who has been without company for years and years. Who may go to his grave, despite his kindness and morality, without again being with someone. Is he worse? Is he a pathetic man deserving only of derision? Is being in a relationship or getting laid the true sole barometer of the measure of a man, because if it is that would explain why I can't stand the greater majority of my own sex. That belief needs to die. Yes, condemn those deserving of condemnations, the unholy spawn upon spawn of Mother F***ing Pile of **** ***** ***** ***** ***** **** and sometimes u, but let be those poor bastards merely waiting to fall in love or who lost their first girlfriend at 21 because they did the honorable thing and let her pursue the man they really love. Let be those who understand love and commitment and honour. They are not the Mother F***ing Pile of **** ***** ***** ***** ***** **** and sometimes u. They are what gives the pale light among the detritus.




And the fact that I myself am a Mother F***ing Pile of **** ***** ***** ***** ***** **** and sometimes u should not colour this argument in the slightest.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Getting laid is a great manliness measure... seperates the wheat from the chaff.

Good stuff, that wheat.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Getting laid is a great manliness measure... seperates the wheat from the chaff.

Good stuff, that wheat.

Yes.

Of course.

Getting laid is a measure of manliness. Honour, love, courage, morality, all of those will flow out like the foetid sperm upon the carpet after another empty day of "making love". Another slaughter of what it means to love in the name of the corruption of a concept. And all for the most noblest of causes. The cause of stripping the term of manly of any respcet it may ever hope to garnish and assure all of the known universe that men have nothing to give, have no purpose but their eventual deaths.

You have opened my eyes, my friend. Your wise and moral words of truth have made it all clear as day. Yes, wheat.


But you know the interesting thing about wheat?

It gets Harvested with a Scythe.

All In One Blow.

A fitting but unintended message I'm sure.

 

[English Lady]

Good Lord, you two are as predictable as can be!


I think you need to take each other with a pinch of salt. *nods*

 

[FallingToFly]

Another random observation: Sometimes those nice guys do the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde switch. The first two years of my marraige were wonderful, with both of us caring and trying to be what the other needed, then we had a solid three years of the most incredibly fucked up relationship on earth. If I could have gotten away with killing him and disposing of the body, I would have. I'm sure he felt the same. We hated each other, I hated myself, and life was just one long battle between us.

(Counselling helped)

Now we're somewhere in the middle, where I'd rather be. We're not always trying to be perfect, we're not always fighting, and we can work with what the other has to give. With difficulty, admittedly, but we can do it.

Anyone, man, woman, whatever, who expects the 'perfect' person to just fall in their lap is a bloody fool. Relationships require more work than any job you've ever had, and that includes motherhood.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Getting laid is a great manliness measure... seperates the wheat from the chaff.

On the whole, I think it merely seperates the erectilely functional from those who are not. And on that topic I think John Randolph, a member of the House of Representatives in Thomas Jefferson's era, had the simplest summary, if - apologies - dated in its use of racial comparison. His response to a taunt about his virility was, "You pride yourself upon an animal faculty in respect to which the Negro is your equal and the jackass infinitely your superior."

Food for thought.

Shanglan

 

[Guest]

 

[3113]

Some excellent points as always, L.C. You're quite right, especially that the guys who are shy (nice or not) are not likely to persue or even find their way to the right places. I've met some guys who won't even open their mouths. They just stare in awe and wonder. Very flattering, but most ladies are likely to get up and move on. In a way, all dating is a bit like speed dating--those first five minutes, unfortunately, is what counts.

On the other hand, talking of dating in general, I don't think that many people find the great love of their lives at a bar. Nor do they usually expect to. Brits will have to help me out on whether Pub Culture is different, but American Bar Culture is a place for picking up someone for the night, and even if someone IS looking for a serious, long-lasting relationship, most aren't. So the person you find is more likely to run if you say, "I want marriage and kids...." rather than, "I want a night of hot sex and companionship."

And even if they say they want the marriage and kids...well, an inebriated person can hardly be trusted. I understand that liquor relaxes folk so they can be more open and less uptight with others, but really, booze is a drug and how honest is a drugged personality? Or, on the other side, how good a judge of people can you be if your on drugs?

I especially like this point:

The benefit is it also makes them loyal and fiercly monogomous.

Of course, this also gets the nice guys in a bit of a pickle. When women say, "Where are all the nice guys?" and they mean "nice" not "cool," it might well be because the nice guys aren't just taken...they're stuck. That's a problem with both sexes. If they feel unworthy, have low self-esteem and are grateful for whatever has come their way, they'll stick with that loser. So the nice guy gets stuck with a nasty gal, and the nice gal gets stuck with loser guy. The "chicken" aspect, as you point out L.C., makes them stick with people they shouldn't stick with.

Is being in a relationship or getting laid the true sole barometer of the measure of a man

It's not. But let's be fair to biology and testosterone. A young guy, getting laid regularly, is less likely to be the whiny bitch that this guy (the guy mentioned by Joe) is. A woman's "civilizing" influence on the beast isn't just metaphoric or teaching him to eat with utensils intead of his paws...it is, literally, the gentling and relaxing power of sex.

Hormones can fuck around with either sex when it comes to moods. I'm not saying a guy or girl can abdicate personal responsibility for actions or additude and blame it all on hormones (although there are extreme cases of women with weird hormones or post-partum depression), or that sex is a cure-all for being a bastard/bitch. HOWEVER, taking an average guy/girl, we can say, I think, that an overload of hormones might well make them cranky and not as descent a person as they'd really be if they were in a relationship. A relationship that not only gives them sex, but companionship, a feeling of worth and someone to offer them a reality check.

Which brings us back to our original guy, bitter over his ex-girlfriend and bitter at being alone and sex-less. Maybe just a bad time of the month (or bad month) for him? We all need to bitch and vent sometimes.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

My view is that one should not condemn anyone of either sex for getting laid a lot or not. That's a personal decision. It's no more wrong to be promiscuous than is to be monogamous, or in the middle, etc. Both sexes have the right to pursue what makes them happy, whether it's celibacy, monogamy, polyamory, polygamy, or promiscuity. The only stipulation is to be honest and fair to all parties concerned.

If the girl wants a new guy, let her go. If the guy really loves a different woman and wants to leave you, let him go. Neither are wrong. Don't waste your time in a serious relationship with someone who doesn't love you or want you what you want. And don't settle, in terms of a long-term relationship, for anything less than what works for both of you.

Frankly, some people even want to avoid the emotional commitment and keep it strictly physical with everyone that they are with. That's not wrong, either. It's a personal choice.

Being a virgin or being a stud doesn't make a difference at all. A man is a man, for being himself and standing up for himself. Same with a woman being a woman.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

It's not. But let's be fair to biology and testosterone. A young guy, getting laid regularly, is less likely to be the whiny bitch that this guy (the guy mentioned by Joe) is.

In my experience, this is patently untrue. With ease of sex comes complacency and whining about things that are unfathomable to most. It shifts from whining about not getting laid enough (a particularly vexing complaint I admit) to whining about what the women require you to actually do on your end in exchange for sex, the lack of respect those real feelings develop for give the promiscuous whiner, or whining about the consequences of sexual encounters which turned out to be less than mutual, less than agreed to be meaningless, or otherwise had an unexpected cost or comeout.

Scott Adams made a great point in one of his books about his passage from poor man to rich man and the amount of whining that occured. He noted that he and the people around him whined the same amount but just over different things. He used to whine about being alone, broke, and living in a hideously crappy apartment. He then proceeded to describe going to a dinner party where people were complaining about maids chipping the furniture and inane things like that.

Whining is endemic and unrelated to sperm release.

It also only works to cut down or change the whining of people obsessed with the sexual aspects of interpersonal connection. The love, the companionship of another person, someone to share one's life with, even basic friendship have their own separate values and factor heavily in the whole relationship package. Each of these can be mourned in their own right and are often (sadly often in the end for many it seems) what really get missed.

Sex (not to cheapen its allure for anyone or anything or diss it)is just an act after all. Love is what endures and what really ends up mattering.

 

[3113]

In my experience, this is patently untrue. With ease of sex comes complacency and whining about things that are unfathomable to most. It shifts from whining about not getting laid enough (a particularly vexing complaint I admit) to whining about what the women require you to actually do on your end in exchange for sex, the lack of respect those real feelings develop for give the promiscuous whiner, or whining about the consequences of sexual encounters which turned out to be less than mutual, less than agreed to be meaningless, or otherwise had an unexpected cost or comeout.

Okay. Granted. A whiner is going to keep whining, that's what they do and like to do, after all ("poor me!")--and those that want something free and clear are absolutely going to whine about anything they have to work for.

However, in my experience, there are guys who become considerably better--if not great--people once they find themselves a girl. I'm not talking just regular sex, but also, as I said, companionship, love, a friend. They may not become prince charming, but they are a lot less grumpy.

 

[NoJo]

Talking of face-stabbing, I nicked my earlobe with a razor the other day. Boy did it bleed.

 

[S-Des]

In my experience, this is patently untrue. With ease of sex comes complacency and whining about things that are unfathomable to most. It shifts from whining about not getting laid enough (a particularly vexing complaint I admit) to whining about what the women require you to actually do on your end in exchange for sex, the lack of respect those real feelings develop for give the promiscuous whiner, or whining about the consequences of sexual encounters which turned out to be less than mutual, less than agreed to be meaningless, or otherwise had an unexpected cost or comeout.

Scott Adams made a great point in one of his books about his passage from poor man to rich man and the amount of whining that occured. He noted that he and the people around him whined the same amount but just over different things. He used to whine about being alone, broke, and living in a hideously crappy apartment. He then proceeded to describe going to a dinner party where people were complaining about maids chipping the furniture and inane things like that.

Whining is endemic and unrelated to sperm release.

It also only works to cut down or change the whining of people obsessed with the sexual aspects of interpersonal connection. The love, the companionship of another person, someone to share one's life with, even basic friendship have their own separate values and factor heavily in the whole relationship package. Each of these can be mourned in their own right and are often (sadly often in the end for many it seems) what really get missed.

Sex (not to cheapen its allure for anyone or anything or diss it)is just an act after all. Love is what endures and what really ends up mattering.

Well, tolyk asked for something a bit more highbrow and thankfully we have it. I find the whole thread somewhat revolting, grouping guys into a category and dismissing them. I wonder what the reaction would have been if Joe's thread had read, "Whiney women who complain about getting abused deserved to be stabbed in the face." Somehow I suspect the tenor would be entirely different.

Most of the posters have touched on aspects I've seen. Working in bands (or with them) in bars for 20 years, I've seen just about every aspect of people trying to make connections. There's not much I can add to what has been said, but let's try to remember that we all have different values. I'm not going to attack someone for what they think or believe. Life can put you in a shitty position and sometimes it's hard to get out of it.

Working two jobs and raising a child isn't exactly a great recipe for dating success. On the other hand, I might find a woman tomorrow who finds my dedication to my daughter wonderful and everything could change. If it doesn't, I promise not to whine about it. I also hope not to be dismissed as a wimp.

 

[Guest]

Talking of face-stabbing, I nicked my earlobe with a razor the other day. Boy did it bleed.

I was unaware that lobes became furry.


Is that like having hairy palms?