UK preferences for US President (Political!)

[voluptuary_manque]

Abuse of returning soldiers was the worst mistake the American "Left" ever made. It turned the rest of the population off once Vietnam was over and left them with little or no public support through Panama, Grenada, the Gulf War and the first years of Iraq. That's a long time to be out of the loop. What are the chances of getting back in? As Jenny said earlier, the next presidency has entirely too good a chance to completely tank. If it's Hillary (God forbid!) it will put women's place in politics back at least a decade. If it's McCain, it will be business as usual. If it's Obama . . .

 

[CharleyH]

This time around, the public seems determined to not mistreat the troops regardless of how they feel about the war.

Compensation for how Vets are treated by the American public? Don't soldiers service America and not public opinion?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Soldiers are just as much part of America as the "public". People realize that, now.

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK the three main political parties have had an unwritten agreement since the Boer War:

You can criticise a war and its conduct but always support the troops.

Og

 

[voluptuary_manque]

In the UK the three main political parties have had an unwritten agreement since the Boer War:

You can criticise a war and its conduct but always support the troops.

Og

It has taken the US a bit longer to figure that out, probably because until Vietnam, we never had a really unpopular war.

 

[john-the-author]

His war record if relevant because it speaks to his character. McCain was neither a conscript or a volunteer for Vietnam. He graduated from the Naval Academy in the 1958 and became a Naval Aviator. When he was captured, his father was a senior admiral. A year later, his father was named commander of US Forces in Vietnam. As the son of a famous father, McCain was severely tortured to accept early release and to provide propaganda. His fellow POWs agree that he behaved honorably in captivity. That doesn't make me agree with him or his politics, but it does earn a measure of respect.

I agree: I dislike most of his politics, but I have a considerable amount of respect for the man. He also looks to be someone you'd actually like to know.

I just about swallowed my back teeth when, in 2000, during the Republican primaries, Bush claimed that McCain didn't have the qualifications to speak on veterans affairs. (You'd expect Bush to have been struck by lightning for the sheer arrogance of that remark, particularly coming from him.) If there was ever anyone who had earned a right to express an opinion on veterans affairs, it would be John McCain.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

That's why I am so hoping Obama gets the Democratic nod. It will be such a refreshing change to be able to choose between two candidates you can actually repect. I think that last time that happened was when Harry Truman was running . . .

 

[oggbashan]

It has taken the US a bit longer to figure that out, probably because until Vietnam, we never had a really unpopular war.

Our first unpopular war you call the War of Independence. The second was the war of 1812 when we burnt Washington. The third was the Opium War...

Og

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertPirate
Don't forget that we never were allowed to try and win. The whole episode was fought with one hand tied behind our backs at best.

absolutely. at best. totally ridiculous, IMHO.

Actually, we could have won, but it would have meant turning North Vietnam inyo a radioactive slag heap, which nobody was willing to do. (Fortunately)

 

[voluptuary_manque]

No, not a radioactive slag heap, just a series of overlapping craters. Showing that we could do exactly that is what got the negotiations started. Shoulda been done 40,000 lives before!

 

[Boxlicker101]

That's why I am so hoping Obama gets the Democratic nod. It will be such a refreshing change to be able to choose between two candidates you can actually repect. I think that last time that happened was when Harry Truman was running . . .

I think you could go back to Stevenson vs Eisenhower in 1952 and 1956.

 

[Boxlicker101]

In a poll published in The Times today a representative group of UK citizens were asked who they would choose to be the next US President.

They were asked who they would choose as the Democrat nominee:

Obama 48%
Clinton 35%

They were then asked who they would choose to be President between Clinton and McCain:

Clinton 56%
McCain 20%

Or between Obama and McCain:

Obama 54%
McCain 19%

I think this poll says more about the UK than about the US Presidential Contest.

Og

I think it says more about the news media in the US and probably the UK too.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I think you could go back to Stevenson vs Eisenhower in 1952 and 1956.

Conceded! There were gentlemen (and ladies) in office in those days, though not enough of the latter. Now, on the other hand . . .

 

[fifty5]

Our first unpopular war you call the War of Independence. The second was the war of 1812 when we burnt Washington. The third was the Opium War...

Og

The latest was the current invasion of Iraq...

 

[freshface]

I agree: I dislike most of his politics, but I have a considerable amount of respect for the man. He also looks to be someone you'd actually like to know.

I just about swallowed my back teeth when, in 2000, during the Republican primaries, Bush claimed that McCain didn't have the qualifications to speak on veterans affairs. (You'd expect Bush to have been struck by lightning for the sheer arrogance of that remark, particularly coming from him.) If there was ever anyone who had earned a right to express an opinion on veterans affairs, it would be John McCain.

Yes, Bush gets away with that a lot. I never quite understood how someone who spent the war in Texas with the National Guard was able to question the service of both McCain and Kerry. I think Bush took lessons from the Goebbels school of propaganda. Tell a lie with confidence often enough and it becomes the truth.

 

[rgraham666]

You have to remember,, most people don't want to hear the truth, especially during a political campaign.

They want warm, beautiful lies that tell them life is going to be perfect and wonderful forever with no sacrifice required on their part. They also want to hear that 'those people' are going to suffer for the temerity of having a different opinion.

Karl Rove played on that very well. The man was a cynical and ruthless man, but a brilliant political operator.

 

[S-Des]

It says a lot about the current political system that people would rather cling to effectively a complete unknown because the 'known' choices are all so bad.

Our problem is the vitriol of the political parties, combined with the corruption inherent in the system. Very few qualified people who are also great leaders step forward because they can't survive the process. Colin Powell would have won in a cake walk 8 years ago, but he didn't want to run (who knows if he didn't want the headache, or if he has things in his past that he didn't want aired publicly). McCain should have been the Republican nominee instead of Bush, but the party regulars who don't like his positions buried him with strong campaigning mixed with outright lies. So we wind up with people who are either conniving political animals (Clinton), untested rookies with nothing bad on their record yet (Obama) or ones past their prime (McCain). With 4 - 8 years of experience, I'd be very interested in giving Obama a chance, but with 130 'present' votes in the Illinois Senate (a trick politicians use to avoid tough votes) and minimal experience in the US Senate, the guy honestly scares the shit out of me.

We really need a third party here.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

The British Poll is a little jarred in favor or Obama. Essentially, he cannot win againt McCain. Obama is the Democratic Candidate of choice for the Republican Party. Even Rush Limbaugh is now supporting Obam - that tells you something.

Here's a snippet from (London) Times Online coming, of course, from an outsider...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3905569.ece

Why Barack Obama may stumble if the House of Clinton falls
It will not be easy. Such is the hostility among many of their supporters, that nearly half of Mrs Clinton’s backers in Indiana said they would not vote for Mr Obama if he were nominated. More than a third in Pennsylvania said the same. Not one Clinton supporter met by The Times in West Virginia said they would turn out for the Illinois senator. “You’d have to twist my arm a long way,” said Lonnie Ward, 62, a retired miner queueing to see Mr Clinton next to Cowboy Dan’s Meathouse. “Bill’s my main man.” Peggy Bland, 69, said: “She’s a strong, strong, strong lady.” And Mr Obama? “Oh no, I wouldn’t vote for him.”
Matthew Towsley, who has been selling Hillary and Obama badges, said: “It’s got real bad. Unless they can put them on the same ticket, there’s going to be trouble.”
Mr Obama’s big win in North Carolina last week, and Mrs Clinton’s narrow victory in Indiana, means the nomination is within his grasp. He is planning to declare a victory of sorts on May 20, after the contests in Kentucky and Oregon, when he expects to have secured a majority among the pledged delegates on offer.
Yet Mrs Clinton and her husband passionately believe that she is a better candidate to take on Mr McCain. She correctly pointed out on Thursday that she has a much broader base of support, even plunging into the minefield of racial politics by declaring that Mr Obama’s backing among “white Americans” was weakening.
In recent contests, she has won Ohio, Pennsylvania and Indiana with overwhelming backing from whites, blue-collar voters, women, and voters over 45. Mr Obama has been propelled toward the nomination mostly by African-Americans, the young, and the well educated. Paul Begala, a former Clinton strategist, inartfully summed up their case: “We can’t win just with African-Americans and egg-heads.

 

[rgraham666]

Paul Begala, a former Clinton strategist, inartfully summed up their case: “We can’t win just with African-Americans and egg-heads.

That's very sad.