Lost in translation: USA vs UK (vs Aus/NZ/India/etc) cultural misunderstandings

[THBGato]

Hello all.

A recent (and extremely helpful) comment on my story Pygmalion 3.0 had this to say:

"Third struggle, not really your fault. You are writing for your UK audience. Being on the other side of the pond as I am, all the school terms went right over my head. They became little speed-bumps as I was reading a story that was otherwise flowing beautifully."

This made me annoyed with myself, as the story starts with two young women completing their University application processes together. I thought I had explained the way that works well enough (God knows there's enough Brits out there who don't understand it!) but clearly not.

Anyway, this made me wonder, given much of the readership here is based in the states, what else gets lost in translation? What other common features of British life are unfamiliar to US (or Aussie, Kiwi, Indian and other) readers and need a little explanation? Have you read anything in a story set in the UK that featured said "little speed-bumps"? What were they?

(From my perspective, I would just like to ask wtf is a wine cooler? When I Google, I just get pictures of fridges designed for wine.)

Also, I'm currently writing a story featuring a BBC Radio journalist. Americans, Aussie and the rest know what the BBC is, right? Or do I need to explain?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Anyway, this made me wonder, given much of the readership here is based in the states, what else gets lost in translation? What other common features of British life are unfamiliar to US (or Aussie, Kiwi, Indian and other) readers and need a little explanation? Have you read anything in a story set in the UK that featured said "little speed-bumps"? What were they?

Don't change your writing to cater for cultural lost in translation "issues". They're the readers' problem, not yours. It's only ever American readers who comment about this: Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Canucks all seem to be able to manage and understand Americana, so why Americans feel they need to comment, I don't know. At least your commenter acknowledged it was their problem.

Comments like that pretty much go straight to the Delete button whenever I see them - which, to be honest, is rare.

Consider it an educational service you're providing to the Yanks.

 

[Bramblethorn]

(From my perspective, I would just like to ask wtf is a wine cooler? When I Google, I just get pictures of fridges designed for wine.)

Wine mixed with fruit juice and optionally other stuff.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Hello all.

A recent (and extremely helpful) comment on my story Pygmalion 3.0 had this to say:

"Third struggle, not really your fault. You are writing for your UK audience. Being on the other side of the pond as I am, all the school terms went right over my head. They became little speed-bumps as I was reading a story that was otherwise flowing beautifully."

This made me annoyed with myself, as the story starts with two young women completing their University application processes together. I thought I had explained the way that works well enough (God knows there's enough Brits out there who don't understand it!) but clearly not.

Anyway, this made me wonder, given much of the readership here is based in the states, what else gets lost in translation? What other common features of British life are unfamiliar to US (or Aussie, Kiwi, Indian and other) readers and need a little explanation? Have you read anything in a story set in the UK that featured said "little speed-bumps"? What were they?

(From my perspective, I would just like to ask wtf is a wine cooler? When I Google, I just get pictures of fridges designed for wine.)

This is a personal comment, from a Kiwi, who uses a lot, and I mean a lot of what I call Kiwisms... Words only Kiwi's will be familiar with.

Do not change your writing style. You write beautifully, and I as a Kiwi do not struggle to understand your meaning....

From my perspective, writers using local slang makes stories more interesting and gives the characters realism... They have their own voices.
Do not change trying to cater to a very small part of your audience... Firstly you'll never please them. Secondly, you will lose some of your existing audience because we love the way you write...

Let your characters live in different countries. Let them embrace who they are. Give them originality. You already do it wonderfully.

Let the complainers grumble.

Just my thoughts.

Cagivagurl

 

[Katie_Mae]

"Third struggle, not really your fault. You are writing for your UK audience. Being on the other side of the pond as I am, all the school terms went right over my head. They became little speed-bumps as I was reading a story that was otherwise flowing beautifully."

Often when I read American stories they give the age of their characters based on the name of their school years. "He was a freshman" or "when I was in fifth grade" etc. These are always a little speed bump for me as I never know really how old their character is. If I really care, or if it's really important to the plot, I can stop reading and google it.

I know this is not what you asked, but the comment about the school terms made me think of this.

 

[alohadave]

Hello all.

A recent (and extremely helpful) comment on my story Pygmalion 3.0 had this to say:

"Third struggle, not really your fault. You are writing for your UK audience. Being on the other side of the pond as I am, all the school terms went right over my head. They became little speed-bumps as I was reading a story that was otherwise flowing beautifully."

This made me annoyed with myself, as the story starts with two young women completing their University application processes together. I thought I had explained the way that works well enough (God knows there's enough Brits out there who don't understand it!) but clearly not.

Anyway, this made me wonder, given much of the readership here is based in the states, what else gets lost in translation? What other common features of British life are unfamiliar to US (or Aussie, Kiwi, Indian and other) readers and need a little explanation? Have you read anything in a story set in the UK that featured said "little speed-bumps"? What were they?

If you read enough stories based in the UK, you pick up the terms. It's really not that big of a deal.

Funny thing though, when I first started reading here, I thought it was based in the UK because of the amount of UK-based stories. Other sites were/are almost all US based.

I wouldn't worry about it.

(From my perspective, I would just like to ask wtf is a wine cooler? When I Google, I just get pictures of fridges designed for wine.)

It's a lightly alcoholic wine based drink, usually with a fruity taste and added carbonation. For many young people of the 80s and 90s in the US, it may have been their first taste of alcohol.

https://hopefamilywines.com/blog/what-is-a-wine-cooler/

 

[alohadave]

Often when I read American stories they give the age of their characters based on the name of their school years. "He was a freshman" or "when I was in fifth grade" etc. These are always a little speed bump for me as I never know really how old their character is. If I really care, or if it's really important to the plot, I can stop reading and google it.

I know this is not what you asked, but the comment about the school terms made me think of this.

And vice-versa, 6th form.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Some use of local idioms can make the story feel interesting and allow a reader to feel like they are experiencing the character's culture. But too much use of local slang can make it sound like a foreign language.

"Um PIST an gonna fuck ya up, mothafucka!" might be a close representation of the sounds to describe an American inner-city gangster's threat in real life. But when used too much in a written story, it becomes tedious for the reader to translate it.

Imagine trying to read a story written entirely with emojis.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Don't change your writing to cater for cultural lost in translation "issues". They're the readers' problem, not yours. It's only ever American readers who comment about this: Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Canucks all seem to be able to manage and understand Americana, so why Americans feel they need to comment, I don't know. At least your commenter acknowledged it was their problem.

I actually had several non-American readers complain about something in my most recent stories: mattress tags, and the “Under Penalty of Law” warning written on them. Every American reader knows exactly what I’m talking about, but not every non-American did, and a few let me know about it.

I think it’s less that the non-American readers are less prone to complain, but more that American pop culture is such a juggernaut that fewer things need to be explained. Every time I’ve visited another country, plenty of American shows are available on the TV there, and American movies play in the theaters. Right or wrong, audiences in Europe and elsewhere receive at least a basic education in the American legal system from our police procedurals, in its broad stereotypes of our states from our sitcoms, and, yes, our school systems from a wide variety of movies and TV shows. On the other hand, Americans have to actively seek out similar content from across the pond (or the world).

Here’s an example: in the last two decades, I really got into British police procedurals and then cozy mysteries. Before that, I had no idea how the legal system over there was structured, but now I have at least a vague understanding of what a PC, PS, DS, DI, and DCI are, along with how they roughly stack up against American police ranks, as well as some differences in procedures and what would pass muster over there vs. what might get thrown out of court here and vice versa.

But the first time I watched? I had to go, “okay, the DI is the main character and in plainclothes, so I guess he’s roughly equivalent to Lenny from Law & Order; oh, he just said Detective Inspector, so that scans. And the guy with him is a DS, but also younger and subordinate, so Detective… Sergeant?” And that was with the benefit of visual cues. My oldest started listening to audiobooks of some of the tamer cozy mysteries with me, and I had to explain the terms to her as we went, which I did through the use of equivalent terms from American culture.

So, yeah. It’s not solely a matter of laziness or the like; we just literally get less exposure to y’all’s culture than you do to ours. I agree with Cagivagurl, though: use the terms and let them figure it out. Or, if you want to split the difference, do what some writers in LW do: put a glossary/primer up at the top of the story (or at the end, with a note at the top about it) to give the Americans a heads up.

 

[oneagainst]

This is a personal comment, from a Kiwi, who uses a lot, and I mean a lot of what I call Kiwisms... Words only Kiwi's will be familiar with.

Do not change your writing style. You write beautifully, and I as a Kiwi do not struggle to understand your meaning....

From my perspective, writers using local slang makes stories more interesting and gives the characters realism... They have their own voices.
Do not change trying to cater to a very small part of your audience... Firstly you'll never please them. Secondly, you will lose some of your existing audience because we love the way you write...

Let your characters live in different countries. Let them embrace who they are. Give them originality. You already do it wonderfully.

Let the complainers grumble.

Just my thoughts.

Cagivagurl

Nah, sorry, didn't get a word of that. Wrong side of the ditch.

 

[oneagainst]

I actually had several non-American readers complain about something in my most recent stories: mattress tags, and the “Under Penalty of Law” warning written on them. Every American reader knows exactly what I’m talking about, but not every non-American did, and a few let me know about it.

I think it’s less that the non-American readers are less prone to complain, but more that American pop culture is such a juggernaut that fewer things need to be explained. Every time I’ve visited another country, plenty of American shows are available on the TV there, and American movies play in the theaters. Right or wrong, audiences in Europe and elsewhere receive at least a basic education in the American legal system from our police procedurals, in its broad stereotypes of our states from our sitcoms, and, yes, our school systems from a wide variety of movies and TV shows. On the other hand, Americans have to actively seek out similar content from across the pond (or the world).

Here’s an example: in the last two decades, I really got into British police procedurals and then cozy mysteries. Before that, I had no idea how the legal system over there was structured, but now I have at least a vague understanding of what a PC, PS, DS, DI, and DCI are, along with how they roughly stack up against American police ranks, as well as some differences in procedures and what would pass muster over there vs. what might get thrown out of court here and vice versa.

But the first time I watched? I had to go, “okay, the DI is the main character and in plainclothes, so I guess he’s roughly equivalent to Lenny from Law & Order; oh, he just said Detective Inspector, so that scans. And the guy with him is a DS, but also younger and subordinate, so Detective… Sergeant?” And that was with the benefit of visual cues. My oldest started listening to audiobooks of some of the tamer cozy mysteries with me, and I had to explain the terms to her as we went, which I did through the use of equivalent terms from American culture.

So, yeah. It’s not solely a matter of laziness or the like; we just literally get less exposure to y’all’s culture than you do to ours. I agree with Cagivagurl, though: use the terms and let them figure it out. Or, if you want to split the difference, do what some writers in LW do: put a glossary/primer up at the top of the story (or at the end, with a note at the top about it) to give the Americans a heads up.

Here's one for you: no-one, no one? Or screw it and search/replace with nobody?

And don't let's get started on suspenders.

 

[THBGato]

This is a personal comment, from a Kiwi, who uses a lot, and I mean a lot of what I call Kiwisms... Words only Kiwi's will be familiar with.

Do not change your writing style. You write beautifully, and I as a Kiwi do not struggle to understand your meaning....

From my perspective, writers using local slang makes stories more interesting and gives the characters realism...

I love your use of Kiwi slang. It's choice.

I was less thinking about slang and more, I don't know, just thinking about what I take for granted that perhaps could do with some subtle exposition. It's all about learning as a writer.

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

 

[AprilTwenties]

Who cares, boo? Keep writing from YOUR perspective and background! I write stuff about the UK, 'cos I'm from there. I use language and cultural items that reflect that. If I was to start writing something based in another country I'd try to assimilate that into my writing. Simple, boo.

If someone comments on that cultural thing, and pulls me up on it, cool....I don't know about that culture! A good way to learn. But...if they're sayin' they have no idea of YOUR culture and identity 'cos of THEIR culture...then...they have to learn! We're on the internet! It's easy to look up shit, y'know? Some people need spoon feeding stuff. Some don't.

Cater for those that don't.

A xx

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It's a lightly alcoholic wine based drink, usually with a fruity taste and added carbonation. For many young people of the 80s and 90s in the US, it may have been their first taste of alcohol.

https://hopefamilywines.com/blog/what-is-a-wine-cooler/

In the UK we'd probably call it an alcopop, though those are usually based on vodka or other spirits, plus fruit flavour and fizz. Hugely popular in the 90s, leading to moral panic...
Diluting wine isn't a thing, though some people will copy the French and add some water to wine for children.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Now school years go from Year 1 to 13, after Reception, it's roughly the same as Kindergarten plus first to twelfth grade. But anyone over 50 see struggles with the year numbers (Year 7 is what used to be first year in secondary school, and don't get me started on some of the arcane numbering systems used by public schools (ie old posh boarding schools))

In the UK we pick up a lot about America from TV and film (they've had to make 911 route to 999 for emergencies as people were panicking and dialling it). The terms sophomore, junior etc are a bit confusing as they can mean either high school or college, right? I'm surprised no-one ever seems to get mixed up between juniors and seniors in high school vs college? Frats and sororities are just totally weird exclusive societies, from what I can tell?

I've never quite understood what is meant by a 'tony neighborhood'? Pretentious? Or just wealthy?

I've never figured out how US sports leagues work, but that's mostly because I don't care.

Stories purporting to be in the modern day where people mail checks to pay rent or bills confuse me - are these just written by old people?

I've never got commenters go into specifics about what they didn't understand - they tend to just go "3 pages of British shit". Beta readers are great though - phrases I've used that apparently were confusing include 'in floods' (crying a lot) and 'on the pull' (on the prowl, though I'm still not sure what Americans say when their prowling is successful).

 

[Duleigh]

Slang Language! I love discovering and decoding a new slang term, it will distract me in a most delightful way. I'll be busy trying to figure out what it means when the character was "banging like a dunny door" and often have more fun trying to figure that out the slang than I had in reading the story in the first place.

I discovered Aussie Slang 25 years ago when the show Farscape premiered on the US SciFi channel. The Farscape forum on the SciFi website was filled with strange and marvelous creatures known as Aussies and they had a unique language all their own. I counted 47 slang expressions for the act of vomiting. ("Singing lunch" is still my favorite) I co-wrote a series of stories called The PKAT and the Pitdog and we overloaded the dialog with Aussie slang until the Aussies lost track of what was going on in the story because they were laughing at our corruption of their private language.

I'm not saying "don't use slang language" I'm saying "use it wisely." Slang Language adds life and flavor to a story but at the same time you have to keep in mind that not everyone knows what you believe that everyone knows. As a technical writer I lived by the axiom of "Writing to the lowest common denominator." You have to keep asking yourself, "will most readers understand that?" especially if you're reaching out to a broad audience.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

In the UK we'd probably call it an alcopop, though those are usually based on vodka or other spirits, plus fruit flavour and fizz. Hugely popular in the 90s, leading to moral panic...
Diluting wine isn't a thing, though some people will copy the French and add some water to wine for children.

You can (if you want) confuse most Americans by having a character drink shandy.

(To Americans: beer mixed with lemonade.)

Obviously, I know. Less obviously, I'm an American. I have, however, spent a bit of time in England.

-Annie

 

[ronde]

Anyway, this made me wonder, given much of the readership here is based in the states, what else gets lost in translation? What other common features of British life are unfamiliar to US (or Aussie, Kiwi, Indian and other) readers and need a little explanation? Have you read anything in a story set in the UK that featured said "little speed-bumps"? What were they?

I'm an American so I feel competent to respond to this.

How much gets lost is more a function of the willingness of the reader to read in the context of the words rather than the literal meaning, and in the American propensity to search for an instantaneous understanding based upon words currently in use in the US. It's also a function of what I call "reading in a bubble" meaning that many people will not extend their reading choices outside of areas with which they are very familiar. Given that most information floating around the internet is generated in the US using US English, it's no wonder that some Americans have problems understanding articles written by English speakers in other countries.

I think the problem is just as complex for readers in other countries attempting to make sense of the Americanism's that seem to not only invade proper English, but make that invasion on a very regular basis. Part of the problem is the "cost" of bandwidth that results in the use of abbreviations and acronyms that to me are much more confusing that trying to figure out how old a character is based upon a designation of a school grade. I absolutely hate being required to look up a word in some urban dictionary in order to figure out what the author is trying to say. That's just the author being either lazy or being proud of introducing some "new" word into his or her article to demonstrate how "up to date" they are.

Dialogue is a completely different animal and should be written as the speaker would speak it. If you're very worried about interpretation of that dialogue, just make sure to put some context along with the words. It's not that hard to figure out what, "I pulled down her knickers and bent her over the bonnet", if somewhere before that you set up the scene of two people getting it on next to an automobile.

 

[Duleigh]

You can (if you want) confuse most Americans by having a character drink shandy

Shandy's are being produced in the summer here in the US by some breweries.
But will having an ice cold Arnold Palmer confuse a Brit?

 

[Bamagan]

I'm still not sure what Americans say when their prowling is successful.

Usually Excelsior! or Huzzah!
Or, if they get into the hole on the first try, they might yell "THIS... IS... SPARTA!"

 

[KimAwakened]

Don't change your writing to cater for cultural lost in translation "issues". They're the readers' problem, not yours. It's only ever American readers who comment about this: Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Canucks all seem to be able to manage and understand Americana, so why Americans feel they need to comment, I don't know. At least your commenter acknowledged it was their problem.

Comments like that pretty much go straight to the Delete button whenever I see them - which, to be honest, is rare.

Consider it an educational service you're providing to the Yanks.

I know.

It's because a (very) large tranche of Americans can't or won't take on board the fact that they represent only 5% of the world's population and that, more generally, the world actually extends beyond American shores.

This was brought home to me once when I was asked by an exasperated Yank, in a queue outside the National Gallery fronting Trafalgar Square, where the nearest gun shop was...

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't find this to be a problem. I notice sometimes when British authors use terms that I'm unfamiliar with, but the meaning usually is clear enough in context. For me, if I have to consult a dictionary once in a while it's part of the pleasurable variety one gets from reading.

By the way, in case any non-Americans are curious, here's a quick run-down of the educational landscape in the good old USA:

Public schools are run by the government. The majority of American students attend public schools.

Private schools are divided into religious schools and secular schools. There are many catholic schools in America, and they are popular enough among many people that many non-catholic students attend them.

Private schools can be boarding schools, where students live on campus, and day schools, where they do not. Boarding schools are a more popular tradition in the Northeastern region of the US.

Students around 4 years old commonly attend preschool, but it's not mandatory.

Kindergarten is for students around 5.

Elementary school usually consists of grades 1 through 6, ages roughly 6 through 11.

Middle school, or junior high school, is typically for grades 7 through 8 but sometimes grades 6 through 8 or 7 through 9.

High school, or secondary school, is typically for grades 9 through 12, with students in successive years being called freshmen, sophomores, juniors, and seniors.

Post-secondary education typically consists of two-year and four-year schools to obtain either Associate of Arts (A.A.) degrees after two years or Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degrees after four years (or possibly after three if the student obtained college credits by taking enough Advanced Placement tests in high school.

In America you do not "go to university" or "attend university." You would typically say "I go to college." This is so even if one attends a university. A college typically only offers BA and BS (undergraduate) degrees while a university also offers graduate degrees (Masters degrees and PhDs and professional degrees in fields like medicine, law, business, etc.).

The US post-secondary system is big and complicated. Public universities are run at the state level, and typically consist of multiple different systems. For example, in California there are community colleges, which typically offer two years of education for students who intend to transfer to four-year colleges, there's the state university system, where schools have names like "California State University, Long Beach" and the University of California system, with schools like the University of California, Los Angeles. There's also a very significant number of independent private colleges and universities throughout the United states, most of them secular but some of them religious.

The freshman-senior nomenclature applies to college students just as it does to high school students.

Attendance at public schools through high school (12th grade) is financed by the government through taxes. Attendance at public schools at the post-secondary level is only partly financed by the government through taxes. Tuition at public schools used to be quite low, but education expenses have grown so much in the last few decades that tuition even at public schools can be very high and beyond the reach of many students without assistance from grants, loans, scholarships, etc. Assistance often is available, but it's complicated.

 

[alohadave]

Stories purporting to be in the modern day where people mail checks to pay rent or bills confuse me - are these just written by old people?

Checks are surprisingly still common for paying rent.

 

[THBGato]

You can (if you want) confuse most Americans by having a character drink shandy.

(To Americans: beer mixed with lemonade.)

Obviously, I know. Less obviously, I'm an American. I have, however, spent a bit of time in England.

-Annie

Hold my "shandy".

"Barman, gimme a larger top and a snakebite and black."

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Now school years go from Year 1 to 13, after Reception, it's roughly the same as Kindergarten plus first to twelfth grade. But anyone over 50 see struggles with the year numbers (Year 7 is what used to be first year in secondary school, and don't get me started on some of the arcane numbering systems used by public schools (ie old posh boarding schools))

In the UK we pick up a lot about America from TV and film (they've had to make 911 route to 999 for emergencies as people were panicking and dialling it). The terms sophomore, junior etc are a bit confusing as they can mean either high school or college, right? I'm surprised no-one ever seems to get mixed up between juniors and seniors in high school vs college? Frats and sororities are just totally weird exclusive societies, from what I can tell?

I've never quite understood what is meant by a 'tony neighborhood'? Pretentious? Or just wealthy?

I've never figured out how US sports leagues work, but that's mostly because I don't care.

Stories purporting to be in the modern day where people mail checks to pay rent or bills confuse me - are these just written by old people?

I've never got commenters go into specifics about what they didn't understand - they tend to just go "3 pages of British shit". Beta readers are great though - phrases I've used that apparently were confusing include 'in floods' (crying a lot) and 'on the pull' (on the prowl, though I'm still not sure what Americans say when their prowling is successful).

In a modern sense the whole Freshman/Sophomore/Jr/Sr thing is dying out in college in the US.
The only place it's used in any meaningful sense is athletics.
For the general school population I never once heard anyone refer to themselves as a Sophmore or Junior, and for Sr it was always just, "I'm graduating in the fall" or whatever.
So few students actually graduate in 4 years it's kind of pointless.
When I read a story with anyone referring to a college Sr (and especially if they attach any sort of social status to that) I just accept the author must be really old or generally out of touch.