Tony Gets Tough!

[pop_54]

Follow the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID

I don't really have an opinion about it but tech mags have been all over it for awhile now, especially in Britain as there was a debate about having a national ID card with an RFID transmitter in it.

Yea that would have stopped the London bombers wouldn't it, like ID cards, them being British subjects entitled to ID cards and all... Sounds like another waste of taxpayers money to me... Better scenario would have been not to let the fucking Islamic twats into Britain in the first place.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

From my point of view, Blair's plan is so reasonable that I don't see where there's anything to discuss. A foeign national convicted of breaking the law is subject to punishment and deportation. Is that so wrong? Is that a violation of his civil rights?

No one is talking about deporting all Muslims, or making them sew a green crescent to their clothes, or deporting them without legal recourse, or deporting them just on "suspicion".

As I understand it, he's proposing the deportation of foreign nationals who are in the country advocating and/or engaged in the violent overthrow of the British government.

Charley and Vogueboy seem to be advocating that such people just be ignored.

What am I missing?

 

[vogueboy]

Some extreme 'religious' groups are already banned in the UK and those groups are not Muslim.

In my earlier post I wrote 'replace them with say Sharia'. My argument is equally valid for unreconstructed Communists wanting a workers' revolution or vaguely Christian sects who see any civil state as evil.

The current threat is from those claiming to be Muslim who do not recognise the UK government, or any non-Islamic government, as legitimate. If they are foreigners living in the UK and advocating overthrow of the forms of Government then deporting them is a reasonable act. If they are UK citizens then they could be committing treason. It is one thing to criticise the government of the day or its policies. It is another thing to suggest that the system of government could be improved. It is treason to advocate overthrow of the structures of government by force.

Og

Ok, reading this post and your last one, (again), It makes more sense and is more clear to me.

No religious group was singled out.

Just individuals who have group affiliations, or not, who advocate to overthrow the government.

I understand.

 

[Boxlicker101]

From my point of view, Blair's plan is so reasonable that I don't see where there's anything to discuss. A foeign national convicted of breaking the law is subject to punishment and deportation. Is that so wrong? Is that a violation of his civil rights?

No one is talking about deporting all Muslims, or making them sew a green crescent to their clothes, or deporting them without legal recourse, or deporting them just on "suspicion".

As I understand it, he's proposing the deportation of foreign nationals who are in the country advocating and/or engaged in the violent overthrow of the British government.

Charley and Vogueboy seem to be advocating that such people just be ignored.

What am I missing?

I agree with you, Doc. I also can't see anything wrong with deporting terrorists or those who aid and abet terrorists. It is so reasonable, I don't see how anybody can object to it.

I have no idea where Charlie is coming from and I don't know if she does. I have copied her posts on the subject, and here they are. I have omitted her praise of Sarah's ass because there is no disagreement by me as to its beauty and desirability.

It's August and they are on vacation. Welcome back.


hope your vacation was more than great, Am.


Do you all listen to yourselves?

Meant with


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer_Carroll
No, the voices crowd me out.


It is schizo really HUH? Who? Oh bitch. FAGGOT!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
JOI: What is the problem with deporting foreign nationals? They are here on our sufferance and quite frankly, I'm delighted to see legislation that with deport those who don't see it as a privilege.

You don't like Britain? Right, then fuck off somewhere else. You either make some attempt at integration and peaceable living, or you don't stay in the country. If you've got a bent for an Islamic state, there's one called Iran, just one flight away.

The Earl


Such beautiful tolerance, Earl.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kendo1
Nice one Earl6000.

Couldn't agree more.


Such tolerance.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
Charley - why should we be tolerant of foreign nationals living here? It is a privilege to live in this country for non-British citizens. They have no actual right to be here.


And you have a right to be where you are Earl, the location, the land and plot? You are British? Or Roman descent? Pagan? Or Christian? Jew?

What, or maybe why do you have that right, Earl? To live where you do AND then the gaul to think no one else has a right to live there, too?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
Goldie: Killing someone does solve someone. I hate to say it, but it's true. If a terrorist has a bomb on him, then wounding him will do nothing, as he can still detonate it and kill everyone around him. It's terrible that the measures are necessary, but shooting to kill is the only way to stop a dedicated suicide bomber.

If you can think of a non-lethal way of stopping someone whose sole wish is to kill themselves and as many people around them as possible, I'd love to know it.

Britain is still tolerant. I am still tolerant. I love foreign people and I love the metling pot that is London. What I don't love is people who are here on our sufferance and who use that position to try and destroy this country and to kill people. Why is it intolerant to punish them and to remove them from the area where they are doing damage?

The Earl


LOL I see where you are going silly boy. And love you!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
Goldie: So you would prefer the police tried to arrest a suicide bomber, giving him ample time to detonate his bomb and kill 20 people around him, including the police officers?

Killing him has saved 20 lives.

The Earl


As recent events have proven? AND PULEEASE Londoners are not used to it? Kill 1 innocent to what end? Kill 20 terrorists to martyrdom?

Do you think terrorism is new? Especially in London? :|


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
I have a right to be here by dint of being a British citizen. One of my friends is American. She is here by dint of having a British visa.

Anyone can live here, I'm happy with the melting pot. What I am not happy with is people comign here because they hate it and want to destroy it. Why is it intolerant to be unwelcoming to a person who hates us and wishes to either kill orf orcibly convert us.

If people want to come and live here and to work and to be part of Great Britain, then all are welcome. If they come here to try and destroy us, then I say they should not be allowed in. Is that so wrong?

The Earl


Ya'all have been destroying yourselves for hundreds of years. Tell me the difference now?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
So it makes it alright because we've done it before? That's specious logic at the best of times.

The Earl


That IS what you are saying. Earl. I am saying you are bogus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
Charley - I honestly don't see the problem with this.

Can you honestly tell me that you would be happy living in the same city as Abu Hamza, knowing that he is illegally in your country and is recruiting people to kill innocent civilians. Wouldn't you want him to be removed from his sphere of influence?

The Earl


Earl. I honestly live in a city with many fuck ups. Do I care? No - why? There as many fuck ups otherwise. Do I care? Why should I? Life everyday is filled with potential - life and death. Care of a terrorist? Why? What can they do but create fear? You post that point. Hate? No - fear - yes. Think about it .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
That is not what I'm saying. I'm not mentioning our past. I'm mentioning the future and the distinct probability that people will die if these foreign nationals remain in our country.


ROFL OH? How NICE OF YOU to say so.
Quote:
A terrorist's power may lie in fear, but it also lies in death. We cannot just ignore tham and hope they will go away, for they will kill to try and get our attention. You are very laconic about the possibility of innocents death, apparently taking the attitude that innocents die every day, so what's a few more. My point is that any innocent death that cna be avoided should be avoided if possible.

You say you live in a city with many fuckups. So does that mean your city would be no worse for one more? Or ten more? Or a hundred more?

I can't understand how you can be so sanguine about innocents dying.




I am pretty damn certain that Britain has played a MAJOR part in terrorism in the past. OH YA - I AM. Were those people in your country who killed so many guilty? OR Innocent? Judge not what you do not know.

LOL. Look at you, Earl. LOOK ... and SEE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
Charley - my country has done many terrible things. I do not deny it. We have lied, cheated and killed. We have been utter fucking bastards at times in history.

However, there is nothing we can do about that. It's happened already. All we can do is try and affect what we do in the future.

The causes of these troubles may be directly attributed to things we've done in the past, but there is never a justification for killing 54 innocent commuters. Deliberately killing innocents is never justifiable, not matter how badly you've been wronged.

Death has occurred in the past due to Britain. Are you honestly saying that future death doesn't matter because we had it coming?

I'm just interested in saving lives. I don't care which nationality they belong to. I just don't want more dead people.

The Earl



All countries have done more atrocities than they are willing to meet, Earl. NOW, sure innocents, but how innocent are we, really as countries? Now lets just discuss Hiroshima for a moment, or maybe Nagasaki and lets talk of innocence, its not British, but, well it could happen - no? Now? With a mentality like yours? You think Nazi Germany is bad? LOOK AT YOU, Earl, and tell me if I was arab, maybe under suspiscion? Would you help me?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
You dare accuse me of being racist? I find it amusing because I know you and know you don't mean to be insulting, but I'd be mortally offended if that came from a stranger.

I don't judge people on their naitonality. I don't judge people on their skin. I don't judge people on their religion. If you were an Arabian and you were getting grief, then yes, I would stick up for you. I would not assume your guilt for the colour of your skin and I'm slightly disappointed that you think so little of me.

The Earl


You said it Earl. You explained it. Not me, and you know I love you but ... look up, way up (as the green giant says) and then see what is said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Liar
Uh...ok? Whydontcha just spell it out, instead of being flip about it? Cause I honestly can't see what you're trying to say.


Look up and read what he himself says - I am being kind and its a Canuck saturday morning cartoon thingy I reference, ok! Or are you refering to his bogus posts about .... other things
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I don't do sequels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liar
Mmkay... I repeat:

Whydontcha just spell it out, instead of being flip about it? Cause I honestly can't see what you're trying to say.

Don't be 'fraid, you can do it. Okie?



OK quoting Unless people edited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
I'm in favour of the movement. There are non-British citizens, who are actively recruiting terrorist cells in Britain. If they are not British citizens, then they are here at our pleasure and if they are fomenting revolt, then that pleasure should be revoked tout suit.

I have no problem with deporting trouble-making foreign nationals.

The Earl



I am not beyond contradiction myself Although I get the humour.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
JOI: What is the problem with deporting foreign nationals? They are here on our sufferance and quite frankly, I'm delighted to see legislation that with deport those who don't see it as a privilege.

You don't like Britain? Right, then fuck off somewhere else. You either make some attempt at integration and peaceable living, or you don't stay in the country. If you've got a bent for an Islamic state, there's one called Iran, just one flight away.

The Earl



Nice, still funny. But not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
Charley - why should we be tolerant of foreign nationals living here? It is a privilege to live in this country for non-British citizens. They have no actual right to be here.

And frankly if they don't act like guests, then we shouldn't be putting them up. It is not to much to expect a guest not to recruit for terrorist cells and preach hatred, is it?

Take Abu Hamza (the world's most famous immigrant). He's an Egyptian citizen and has no visa to be in England. He lives in London and claims social security, with no intention of ever working. In his spare time, he give vitriolic speeches, declaring fatwa on Britain and inviting people to blow up innocent civilians for the greater good of his warped version of Islam (presumably the one with the Koran that missed out the 'Thou shalt not kill' section).

Why should we not remove him to his country of origin?

The Earl


Devils advocate ok


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
I don't get where I've contradicted mysefl. I'm not recommending deporting every foreign national. Only those who foment revolt and terrorism.


The Earl


ONLY is the point Earl. ALL OF US DO! WHAT is the big deal? Until it is you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
The Earl


As I forementioned the British invasion of, well almost everything. Come ON EARL! Working and not? So the 23 % on welfare are what? LOL. I can't even argue with your contradictory dumb ass statements, except with ... well equally dumb ass statements

speaking of asses, Sarah has a nice croppable one (I heard that)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
Ah, you edited. A
The Earl


I edit for spelling - never sentiment I still think you are hot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
So, hang on, let's break this down. Why do you think that Abu Hamza, a cleric without a visa, without British citizenship, without a job and with a healthy desire to blow up innocent British people and with a healthy record of fomenting terrorism, should not be deported?

The Earl
You are really asking me this right? LOL

Tommorrow, love, I will answer. Tonight lets have fun - get laid - or SPANK SARAH! Or in Europe - Sleep


Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetsubsarahh
Oh, not the original topic!





LOL and talk of your ass is?

Oops. Ami is gonna get right mad now!
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I don't do sequels


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarl
On a side-note, I'd be happy to see any convicted football hooligan get deported to the middle of the Sahara without a map or water. Anyone enough of a fuckwit to spoil a football game for others deserves anything and everything that can be dished out.

[/tangent]

The Earl


You are still up ... sexy?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetsubsarahh
Sexy men never sleep.



Apparently sexy girls don't either


Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_mabeuse
From what I undestand, Blair is advocating deportation of immigrants who advocate violence against the British people and government. I don't have any problem with that at all.


Really? You must be joking?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetsubsarahh
vogueboy -

I'm not in the mood to argue anything you've said, but I do have one question.

Why do you purposefully put your font size at the lowest setting? It makes it difficult to read and is annoying as hell.

I would hope that isn't the reason you choose to do so?





Put him in his place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetsubsarahh
It looks as if you are purposefully setting it to (size 2)?

I believe the default font is size 3. You shouldn't have to do a thing but type and it will come out a bit more readable.




Does he need to change his skin?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amicus




still awake...


This IS a first
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ok Earl, back as promised... so deporting foreign nationals "suspected" of terrorist affiliations ….

Does this not breach basic human rights? Is this not a discriminatory act since it only applies to foreign nationals who 'may' or 'may not' be associated with terrorism as opposed to policies of deporting those who have committed actual crimes? Doesn't this contravene basic rights of individuals especially where it concerns law since suspects have not exactly committed a crime?

Certainly, we are only talking about those suspected of being associated with al qaeda, though we do like to throw around the term, 'Foreign National'?

How different is this than the case of the recently murdered Jean Charles de Menezes? So what if, like Maher Arar, (deported to Syria from the US, despite his Canadian passport, then detained and tortured) you are deporting people who have no affiliations with terrorists, whatsoever?

At what cost is this right? Although, I suppose it does make more sense than detaining them in the earlier stated ghettos.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I have a hard time figuring out where some posters on this thread are coming from. It seems there are certain individuals in the UK, who are not citizens and don't want to become citizens. For the most part, they are parasites who live off the taxpayers. Not only do they contribute nothing to the country that has, up till now, fed, clothed and housed them, they are loudly advocating murdering the citizens of the UK. This is an extreme case of biting the hand that feeds one.

Up until now, the UK has displayed remarkable forbearance and patience, allowing these parasites to live there and flourish. Until recently, their message of hatred and violence had not been effective but now it has, so the situation is different. The government of the UK is taking steps to kick these persons out. I can't understand why outsiders would object.

Some have said it is discriminatory. Of course it is. Jails and prisons are discriminatory also because they only hold those who have been convictd of crimes. You can't deport native-born citizens because there is no place to deport them to. Many of the deportees are of a certain ethnicity and religion but that has nothing to do with the deportations. Other persons of the same ethnicity and religion are welcome to stay as long as they are decent people. I am of mostly English descent but if I were to go there and act the same way as the deportees do, I would also be imprisoned or kicked out of the country.

Ogg, I have to admit that the US has often been remiss in upholding extradition treaties. Members of the IRA, who committed "political crimes" such as murder or armed robbery were sometimes given a safe haven. At the same time, there are criminals who are wanted by the US who are protectd by European nations. Roman Polansky of France, who molested a 13 year old girl, is one of the most notorious, but there are others who will not be extradited because some European nations believe the American penalties are too harsh.



Good GOD! Do you live up your ass Box?

If the UK is anything like Canada, then your statements are SO prejudiced that you need to rethink that you "have a hard time figuring out posters."

And this is only a beginning of what I could say to you!
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[dr_mabeuse]

Ther abridgment of individual rights for the sake of security is a sensitive subject and generates a lot of knee-jerk reaction, but I think when you look at the substance of what Blair's saying, it's awfully hard to disagree with him.

I love Charley. She's the first one on her feet when the devil's looking to dance, and I think sometimes she starts to mambo before she can tell what music he's playing.

--Zoot

 

[vogueboy]

From my point of view, Blair's plan is so reasonable that I don't see where there's anything to discuss. A foeign national convicted of breaking the law is subject to punishment and deportation. Is that so wrong? Is that a violation of his civil rights?

No one is talking about deporting all Muslims, or making them sew a green crescent to their clothes, or deporting them without legal recourse, or deporting them just on "suspicion".

As I understand it, he's proposing the deportation of foreign nationals who are in the country advocating and/or engaged in the violent overthrow of the British government.

Charley and Vogueboy seem to be advocating that such people just be ignored.

What am I missing?

Yes, you've got the bomber, put him in jail or deport him, great. But his family, relatives and friends in jail too and possible deportation as well?

And I am sure the investigative scrutiny will include friends of the friends and so on.

 

[pop_54]

Yes, you've got the bomber, put him in jail or deport him, great. But his family, relatives and friends in jail too and possible deportation as well?

And I am sure the investigative scrutiny will include friends of the friends and so on.

If his family and friends supported him in his efforts to blow up innocent citizens, then sling them out as well or lock them up... if they didn't support him, but rather reported him for his evil intent, then they have nothing to fear and are welcome to stay... I've been reading through this thread and see varying opinions... personally I don't give a shite how many terror suspects or their associates or kin get slung out of this country or locked up as long as it stops the risk to me and my family and friends...

We've gone long past the ideal of tollerance and the welcoming hand now, let's just get it sorted any way we can and fuck the human rights legislation... I don't care if they're black, brown, blue, purple, pink, white, green, any colour you like... if they pose a threat to my country and my family, get the fuckers out of here... Period.