Time to remove professional sports from schools.

[1sickbastard]

Yes.
I said it.

Schools are institutions that are supposed to be devoted to teaching and learning. Physical education, such as teaching the young how to develop, care for and maintain a healthy body is all well as good, but give me any good reason competitive team sports are vital to the education process which cannot be achieved by privately funded after school programs.

I'm going to focus specifically on two sports, the main two sports which seem to occupy much of the American attention and divert significant resources away from actual academics; football and basketball. Other sports, track and field, baseball, soccer and hockey are also culpable and the list is by no means inclusive.

The main arguments for team sports seem to be this: They develop teamwork and foster leadership. Secondary arguments are for the revenues and scholarships.

For the first two arguments, I will counter argue that teamwork and leadership are primarily mental and character abilities that can be fostered by other means. School sponsored community projects can do for teamwork, as can simple ropes courses and group academic and technical projects, student body government (which helps with leadership) and the promotion of student created and/or managed small businesses. As a plus, the students will also learn practical skills easily transferable to life after academia.

For the secondary arguments, I will venture that many, if not most school districts spend inordinate amounts of taxpayer money to support team sports. football fields, baseball diamonds, basketball fields, swimming pools, hockey rinks aren't free, aren't cheap, and are only paid for through direct taxation or the issuance of bonds. One is a direct affront to those who pay taxes, the other only increases gov't debt. Both remove capital from the economy which can be used more productively.

As for the scholarship argument, why shouldn't the professional sport provide those scholarships?

Specifically for football and basketball, and to a lesser extent, baseball and the other pro sports, why should those scholarships be tied to academia? For pro football and basketball, it means they have no real functioning minor league system other than the NCAA.

Someone explain to me why the NBA and the NFL should not administer their own minor league systems and offer prospective athletes scholarships so they can attend institutions of higher education during the off season? More to the point, why is it that many state universities divert public funds to support billion dollar industries? (I'll exempt private colleges/schools because they are NOT on the taxpayers' dollars.)

I believe the benefits would vastly outweigh the liabilities. Private institutions (pro sports franchises/leagues) can (and will) offer after school programs, much the same as pee-wee sports leagues (which are not attached to schools).

The practice of giving 'jocks' special entitlements, grades, and blow off courses becomes null as the school no longer has any vested interest in winning some trophy. Student are then expected to perform academically and their physical prowess is no longer a consideration. So-called 'student athletes' are no longer given 'special considerations or allowances for disruptive behaviors. Their sense of entitlement and privilege will no longer extend into their academic development.

At higher levels, the two sports of basketball and football develop a robust minor league system, much like MLB an the NHL have. Lose a player from injury or misbehavior? Instead of having a short roster, the team in the big leagues has the option of bringing up talent from the minors.

Interested in everyone's' thoughts and looking forward (hopefully) to a reasoned debate.

 

[KyleW]

Studies have shown that extracurricular sports increase attendance and gpa.

 

[Lancecastor]

When I was in High School, I was on Student Council.

And because the character you know as Lancecastor is "based on a true story", yes, I was something of a character as a (or as far as I was concerned, the) BMOC.

The very first thing I did when elected in my first year of high school was...

I persuaded Council to cut off all Budget to the Football team.

(An Aside: as you might imagine, a huge shitstorm erupted...after the Coach showed up at the next Council Meeting and ripped us a collectively huge new Anal Canyon, we reversed the motion under duress and I was press-ganged into service as Right Defensive Tackle, which is a story for another thread, perhaps)


Anyway, yeah...football and basketball are retarded. Schools should axe that shit. It's Social Programming. America is Communist that way...

NCAA is where they plant the "American Idiot" chips. Make it stop!

Hockey, however, is Sacred.

 

[Peregrinator]

University Of Chicago.

 

[LadyVer]

Good arguments, 1sb. Since I don't know much about sports, especially in schools, that's about all I can say. Oh, other than I hope there are no more Stubenville-like occurrences.

 

[Lancecastor]

University sports are fundamental in terms of programming the proletariat for Life In America...though it's brainless fodder for the lemmings, I don't think it can be underestimated as a societal control device in the USA.

Without "the games", can you imagine how much the anger level would go up, how much the competitive productivity so essential to running the Capitalist Machine would go down?

 

[phrodeau]

The thread title is confusing. Professional sports are not in the schools, and you're advocating that they should be, with scholarship programs and special institutions.

 

[1sickbastard]

The thread title is confusing. Professional sports are not in the schools, and you're advocating that they should be, with scholarship programs and special institutions.

Really? You don't think the NCAA is a professional sports organization?

Let me guess, you never went to an American High school.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Really? You don't think the NCAA is a professional sports organization?

Let me guess, you never went to an American High school.

The NCAA is not the governing body for high school athletics. No high school offers professional sports.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Time to close down the education campus too..

 

[richard_daily]

University Of Chicago.

School of Economics?

 

[RobDownSouth]

The thread title is confusing. Professional sports are not in the schools, and you're advocating that they should be, with scholarship programs and special institutions.

After yesterday (national signing day for NCAA football), I'm convinced that professional sports have established a beach head at Ole Miss University (2nd rate program landed 5 of the top 10 athletes in the nation).

 

[1sickbastard]

The NCAA is not the governing body for high school athletics. No high school offers professional sports.

Okay, you have a point and I agree. No high school offers professional sports.

Now for a true story:
Just north of where I live and a few years back, a school district was have a severe budget shortfall. Yet in the midst of that, the voters of that school district approved a $30 million bond package for the sole and express purpose of building a brand new, state of the art, high school football stadium, complete with a media broadcast center and skyboxes. Not 'professional' sport, true, but would not that money have been better spent on, oh idk, hiring more teachers, reducing student to teacher ratios, or beefing up education that actually addresses the country's future need, like math, sciences and/or small business creation?


Now give me some good reasons why sports are vital to education or academics, please.

 

[1sickbastard]

University sports are fundamental in terms of programming the proletariat for Life In America...though it's brainless fodder for the lemmings, I don't think it can be underestimated as a societal control device in the USA.

Without "the games", can you imagine how much the anger level would go up, how much the competitive productivity so essential to running the Capitalist Machine would go down?

Despite the inflammatory terms, if programming the proles for the Capitalist Machine is so vital, why doesn't said machine pay for it on it's own dime? Why does the citizenry need to be taxed for private sector profits?

 

[1sickbastard]

Time to close down the education campus too..

Disagree. Societies that neglect, disregard or mismanage education often don't fare very well.

If you really want to privatize the most costly gov't expenditures, let's start with defense.

 

[Lord_Nibiru]

In Britain people have been fooled into thinking that we don't have enough youngsters taught that winning is what counts and government uses this as the explanation for why we're so poor at competitive sport on an international level. Indeed Cameron wants to force all kids to undergo 'competitive' sport in schools.

Personally, whilst I'm a big football (the soccer kind) fan and played competitive sports as a youngster I really think it's an unecessary and rather silly idea that kids need to be taught that competition with each-other is what counts.

It's in direct contrast to the idea that people should get along, respect eachother and work together, IMHO.

Which leads me to my final point. Good opening post 1sb, but in my view education should be about developing children into fully rounded, free and happy individuals but in reality it is simply a government indoctrination system to prepare a workforce to ensure future government policy is adhered to and believed in.

I would far rather have kids attend a Maharishi school to learn about opening their own souls and hearts to the world than to a school to learn how to count.

 

[1sickbastard]

Studies have shown that extracurricular sports increase attendance and gpa.

Is that because the students involved are more motivated or because those students are funneled into blow-off courses, have their grades padded, or are just not reported if they don't go to class?

See, there are real pressures to make sure 'star athletes' are given breaks so they can play, but that doesn't mean they are excelling in their academics.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Okay, you have a point and I agree. No high school offers professional sports.

Now for a true story:
Just north of where I live and a few years back, a school district was have a severe budget shortfall. Yet in the midst of that, the voters of that school district approved a $30 million bond package for the sole and express purpose of building a brand new, state of the art, high school football stadium, complete with a media broadcast center and skyboxes. Not 'professional' sport, true, but would not that money have been better spent on, oh idk, hiring more teachers, reducing student to teacher ratios, or beefing up education that actually addresses the country's future need, like math, sciences and/or small business creation?


Now give me some good reasons why sports are vital to education or academics, please.

That vote may have had little to do with the school. The voters decided to spend their own money on building a football stadium. That's a separate issue from the school budget.

Students who are involved in sports do better academically than those who are not.

 

[shoulderblade]

Specifically for football and basketball, and to a lesser extent, baseball and the other pro sports, why should those scholarships be tied to academia? For pro football and basketball, it means they have no real functioning minor league system other than the NCAA.


Interested in everyone's' thoughts and looking forward (hopefully) to a reasoned debate.

I think that off the two sports you mention Football is by far the greater offender just on a safety basis, specifically trauma to the head. Those big, fancy helmets maybe good for preventing acute injuries like a crushed cheek or lost teeth but they are virtually useless against head contact trauma the severe form of which would be a concussion. Especially with linemen this sort of contact is on going, and is in fact a part of rhe job, yet no one seems to know much about it or care. I have been trying to follow the head injury thing maily via the NHL though it occurs in some other sports and entertainment.

 

[KRCummings]

Looks like somebody never got picked to play and spent recess crying on the monkey bars.
Grow the fuck up.

 

[hogjack]

Now give me some good reasons why sports are vital to education or academics, please.

How does your addiction to porn help your "career", health, citizen responsibilities and family relationships?

 

[dirtwrench]

Looks like somebody never got picked to play and spent recess crying on the monkey bars.
Grow the fuck up.

While you could be right on this KRC, he still makes many good points I have to agree with. BTW, I for one was normally picked in the first couple rounds for playground/phys ed sports.

Here in small town Iowa, the local high school sports stars are treated like royalty right up until they wind up in the "real" world. That is often, but not always, followed by a sudden and rude wake up call when they go off to college or work and find they really don't amount to a shit.

I have sat thru many school/community meetings where the question of how to keep our schools open with shrinking student populations & gov funding. It always seemed to come around to "lets cut programs like band, chorus,vocational classes and therefore the teachers for same but hey, lets use the money saved to pay administrators more and hire more coaches. By God we HAVE to have a basketball/football/wrestling program." I was nearly tarred and feathered when I announced to the assembled "adults" that maybe we should cut a sport (basketball) or share it with another school. The high school principal informed me we HAD to keep the team as it was our school's identity. The real anger began when I then asked if it would be such a shame if we were identified as the school who actually educated our young.

Team programs of any kind fill the need to learn to work & play together. (debate, judging contests, student governments, phys ed) Many school groups can teach leadership. (all of the aforementioned) All adults need these lessons, no question. But how many will go on to sit on councils, governing boards, and employee groups compared to the one who will be professional basketball or football players?

 

[KRCummings]

While you could be right on this KRC, he still makes many good points I have to agree with. BTW, I for one was normally picked in the first couple rounds for playground/phys ed sports.

Here in small town Iowa, the local high school sports stars are treated like royalty right up until they wind up in the "real" world. That is often, but not always, followed by a sudden and rude wake up call when they go off to college or work and find they really don't amount to a shit.

I have sat thru many school/community meetings where the question of how to keep our schools open with shrinking student populations & gov funding. It always seemed to come around to "lets cut programs like band, chorus,vocational classes and therefore the teachers for same but hey, lets use the money saved to pay administrators more and hire more coaches. By God we HAVE to have a basketball/football/wrestling program." I was nearly tarred and feathered when I announced to the assembled "adults" that maybe we should cut a sport (basketball) or share it with another school. The high school principal informed me we HAD to keep the team as it was our school's identity. The real anger began when I then asked if it would be such a shame if we were identified as the school who actually educated our young.

Team programs of any kind fill the need to learn to work & play together. (debate, judging contests, student governments, phys ed) Many school groups can teach leadership. (all of the aforementioned) All adults need these lessons, no question. But how many will go on to sit on councils, governing boards, and employee groups compared to the one who will be professional basketball or football players?

Only the most delusional high school player thinks they'll be pro some day. It's made clear from day one that the odds are against them getting full scholarships to a big school much less playing in the NBA or NFL. It is however relatively easy to get partial scholarships or full ones to small schools if the kid has any talent at all. Not to mention the income generated by high school sports which simply doesn't happen with any other events.
The myth of the high school jock hero suddenly crashing into the real world is mostly just that, a myth. If he's really that good he's in college. If he's not then he knew it all along and is no more surprised by the world than your average student which is to say they get slapped in the face by life but no more than anyone else ever has.
There are exceptions but they are far from the rule.

 

[SeaDaddy1]

Only the most delusional high school player thinks they'll be pro some day. It's made clear from day one that the odds are against them getting full scholarships to a big school much less playing in the NBA or NFL. It is however relatively easy to get partial scholarships or full ones to small schools if the kid has any talent at all. Not to mention the income generated by high school sports which simply doesn't happen with any other events.
The myth of the high school jock hero suddenly crashing into the real world is mostly just that, a myth. If he's really that good he's in college. If he's not then he knew it all along and is no more surprised by the world than your average student which is to say they get slapped in the face by life but no more than anyone else ever has.
There are exceptions but they are far from the rule.

We had this star QB in HS who was a really cool dude. He never let his popularity go to his head, which was rare. Sometimes, he seemed untouchable. He got hurt in a volunteer game against some rag tag team in a 'practice' game and sat on the bench the 1st 2 HS games and they lost both games without him. The coach let him play again from the 3rd game on and they went undefeated the rest of the season. His team played harder and better for him because he was so talented and such a good guy. He went on to college, but never went pro. He came back as an assistant coach because he didn't like the attention lavished on him in college.

 

[run_silent]

I agree that if a sport wants a minor league they should create it and pay for it. Schools are for education.