This just in from John Kerry:

[TWB]

no one

not even he ever denied HE KNEW about the ASSASINATION plot!

NOT EVEN HE

spin all you want

Kerry is a disgusting loathsome vile creature

The thread is about Kerry's belittling comment about the troops, right? That is deplorable, right, belittling the troops? Hmmmm BB?

 

[busybody..]

OK, answer a question for me. If Kerry was implicated in a plot to assassinate six US senators, why wasn't it THE biggest gun used to attack him in '04? If true it's a WAY bigger story than the swift boat thing. The GOP would have been proclaiming it from the rooftops twenty four hours a day.

The story was indeed out during the campaign

as it has been for decades

the mass media did its best to not only IGNORE that story but dismiss all the allegations of the Swift Boaters

Dont YOU recall how the Swifties were treated by the MSM?

it is INTERESTING to note, ABC "news" actually went to Vietnam to "interview" and old man who CLAIMED he saw Kerry near Cambodia

BUT NEVER INTERVIEWED ANY OF THE SWIFT BOATERS

Kerry was never prosecuted, Fonda was never prosecuted

for a variety of reasons

one of which was that it was judged to be too divisve at the time

best to ignore the whole thing

while your question is good, it could easily extend to dozens of soldiers and Fonda and others

 

[busybody..]

you know whats FUNNY?

are those that ask

If so, why wasnt Kerry prosecuted?

yet in the same breath

they denegrate all those that give evidence against Kerry as nothing but PAID OPERATIVES of the Repoz

Indeed, Kerry SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED

 

[Sean]

The story was indeed out during the campaign

as it has been for decades

the mass media did its best to not only IGNORE that story but dismiss all the allegations of the Swift Boaters

Dont YOU recall how the Swifties were treated by the MSM?

it is INTERESTING to note, ABC "news" actually went to Vietnam to "interview" and old man who CLAIMED he saw Kerry near Cambodia

BUT NEVER INTERVIEWED ANY OF THE SWIFT BOATERS

Kerry was never prosecuted, Fonda was never prosecuted

for a variety of reasons

one of which was that it was judged to be too divisve at the time

best to ignore the whole thing

while your question is good, it could easily extend to dozens of soldiers and Fonda and others

Oh give me a break. You couldn't keep a presidential candidate plotting to kill US senators quiet. We got coverage of the swift boat thing over here, are you telling me this wouldn't be major news? Try pulling the other one, it's got bells on.

 

[busybody..]

Question for you TerrorTurds

Does anyone KNOW what issue Kerry RAN on in his first try at the Senate?

 

[phrodeau]

Kerry apologized to the troops.

Now busybody needs to apologize to us.

 

[busybody..]

Oh give me a break. You couldn't keep a presidential candidate plotting to kill US senators quiet. We got coverage of the swift boat thing over here, are you telling me this wouldn't be major news? Try pulling the other one, it's got bells on.

it WAS all over the news!

BUT

the MSM didnt cover it at all, for obvious reason

the RIGHT WIND media covered it

with obvious results

and THE story has been around for 30 years!

 

[Peregrinator]

you know whats FUNNY?

are those that ask

If so, why wasnt Kerry prosecuted?

yet in the same breath

they denegrate all those that give evidence against Kerry as nothing but PAID OPERATIVES of the Repoz

Indeed, Kerry SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED

You hear this from time to time about all sorts of people. Henry Kissinger, for example. The MSM doesn't pay much attention to the folks who think he should be prosecuted, either. Maybe such stories just don't sell well?

Here's an example:http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-hkiss.html

Note that none of the links, or few of them, are from msm.

 

[Peregrinator]

Question for you TerrorTurds

Does anyone KNOW what issue Kerry RAN on in his first try at the Senate?

I don't.

 

[busybody..]

just ONE story

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/kerry_kan_plot1.htm

ignored as a RW hit piece

of course

 

[busybody..]

I don't.

he ran as a candidate for Senate on the PLATFORM that the US (in 1984) should UNILATERALY disarm from all NUKE weapons

AND

the RR program of depolying MX missles in Europe was wrong, provocative and anti peaceful!

DISARM AMERICA, ON YOUR OWN

Kerry!

 

[busybody..]

MSM belittled EVERYTHING that pointed to what Kerry was

BUT

the story was out there

Boston Globe Minimizes VVAW Assassination Plot, Kerry's Involvement
Today's Boston Globe manages to surpass other American broadsheets in covering John Kerry's association with the Phoenix Project, the assassination plot cooked up by Scott Camil and debated at the November 1971 meeting of the VVAW, where Kerry was present as one of the organization's leaders. However, as reader Pat Curley notes, the Globe tries its best to minimize the seriousness of the plot in order to limit the damage to the home-town candidate:

Senator John F. Kerry said through a spokesman this week that he has no recollection of attending a November 1971 meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which some activists discussed a plot to kill some US senators who backed the war.
Quite frankly, although Pat feels that the Globe didn't bury the lede, this is one of the weakest lead paragraphs I've read on a major news story (as opposed to human-interest stories, which have more latitude to use artistic prose). Is this news story about John Kerry's faulty memory? No; it concerns itself much more with the plot and the alleged lack of seriousness. Whether or not Kerry remembers being there is a moot point anyway; both FBI surveillance and informant reports put him at the meeting.

Kerry has long been portrayed as not being at the Kansas City, Mo., meeting because Kerry recalled quitting the organization at an acrimonious July 1971 session, four months before the November meeting at which the assassination plot was discussed.
But last week, the Kerry campaign seemed to leave open the possibility that he had attended the November session, after historian Gerald Nicosia said he had found an FBI document that he said indicated that Kerry was there. As a result of Nicosia's assertion, Kerry's campaign said in a statement that while Kerry did not remember being at the meeting, "If there are valid FBI surveillance reports from credible sources that place some of those disagreements in Kansas City, we accept that historical footnote in the account of his work to end the difficult and divisive war."


At best, this is charitable, but I would call this portion a very concerted effort to avoid stating the obvious: Kerry fudged the dates and he got caught, forcing him to backpedal. Even if a newspaper didn't want to be that blunt, the paragraph's passive voice -- Kerry has long been portrayed, the Kerry campaign seemed to leave open the possibility -- really waters down the objective fact that Kerry's campaign changed their story due to solid proof unexpectedly surfacing.

... Camil confirmed historical reports that he had suggested a vague plot aimed at prowar senators, but he said he has no recollection of seeing Kerry at the meeting. "He had nothing to do with this," Camil said. "I don't remember seeing him there."
Another person at the Kansas City session, Larry Rottmann, also said he does not remember seeing Kerry there. A third key player, Randy Barnes, who headed the Kansas City chapter that hosted the meeting, has been quoted in the media as saying Kerry was there. But in a telephone interview, Barnes said he may have confused that session with an earlier one in St. Louis and now is unsure whether Kerry attended the Kansas City function.

"Quite honestly, I am not absolutely certain that John Kerry was at that meeting," Barnes said about the Kansas City session. "A meeting occurred in St. Louis and one occurred in Kansas City. I thought the Kansas City meeting was first."


The Globe tries a bit of misdirection here, quoting Scott Camil and Randy Barnes as saying he didn't recall seeing Kerry at the meeting. However, the Globe doesn't mention that both men are or will be working on Kerry's campaign, as Thomas Lipscomb's excellent original article in the New York Sun noted:

Mr. Kerry denies being present at the November 12-15, 1971, meeting in Kansas City of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and says he quit the group before the meeting. But according to the current head of Missouri Veterans for Kerry, Randy Barnes, Mr. Kerry,who was then 27,was at the meeting, voted against the plot, and then orally resigned from the organization. ...
In a phone interview with the Sun this week, Mr. Camil did not dispute either the account in the Nicosia book or in the oral history.He said he plans to accept an offer by the Florida Kerry organization to become active in Mr. Kerry’s presidential campaign [bold emphasis mine].


The Globe manages to find one other former VVAW member, Rottmann, who doesn't recall seeing Kerry there -- but again, what does that matter if contemporaneous reports and other witnesses place him there? It seems that this article wants to go back and forth between memory loss on one hand, and crystal-clear recollection from the same people insisting that Camil wasn't really serious when he asked several people at the meeting to become assassins for his plot.

Overall, one cheer to the Globe for even mentioning the Phoenix Plot, joining CNN as the only mainstream media outlets to do so. However, their deceptive couching of the circumstances, burying of their witnesses' connections to the Kerry campaign, and just plain poor writing demonstrates the effort that the Globe put into discrediting Lipscomb and Gerald Nicosia.

 

[busybody..]

Kerry "Forgot" A Meeting Where Killing Senators Was Discussed
The Los Angeles Times has an article [free registration required] about some of the FBI surveillance files on John Kerry’s anti-war activities. The article manages to ignore the most relevant damaging information, and paints Kerry in the best light - for example twice reporting that the FBI ceased its surveillance because Kerry was not involved in violence.

They [FBI files] also suggest that Kerry's memories of some of his antiwar activities, including the date he left his position on the VVAW national steering committee, were inaccurate. Kerry has stated that he left the group in the summer of 1971, but the files show that he did not quit until the late fall of that year.
There are good reasons that Kerry wants to hide his participation in activities later that year.

The files show that Kerry and his activities within VVAW were a subject of FBI surveillance throughout the summer of 1971, during a time he claimed to have already left the organization

The documents include evidence that Kerry did not resign from the VVAW's national steering committee until November 1971, during four days of meetings in Kansas City. Several Vietnam-era histories — and Kerry himself — had said his resignation occurred at a VVAW gathering in St. Louis in July.

In other words, Kerry lied.

Previously, Kerry had denied being at the Kansas City gathering. But the FBI files, along with interviews with former VVAW members, indicate that he attended at least some portion of the meetings, using the occasion to resign his post as one of the group's national coordinators.


"I still have no memory of a Kansas City meeting.

This is starting to sound Clintonesque.

But the files include a "priority" memorandum dated Nov. 16, 1971 — the day after the VVAW's Kansas City meeting ended — from Hoover to Nixon and other high-ranking administration officials. Quoting a "confidential source," the report said Kerry was there and had resigned from the VVAW for personal reasons.

"It's just weird," Kerry said, when asked about the discrepancy. He attributed his previous assertions to a faulty memory.

More of the Clintonesque lying, but done less skillfully, and the LA Times is leaving out very damaging information. The 3 day meeting was held to discuss a proposal for the group to assassinate a number of US Senators!

No wonder Kerry couldn't remember it - nothing important or memorable was discussed! Apparently the Los Angeles Times also doesn't consider an assassination plot against Senators to be worth reporting.

"I remember the Kansas City meeting like it was last week," said Barnes. She said Kerry read an emotional resignation letter while scores of VVAW members sat around long tables in a church classroom.

"He said he was going into public service, that he was going to run for office," said Barnes. "It was a short speech, but it was emotional. Everybody cheered."

Apparently the day he resigned from the VVAW in order to run for office also wasn't important enough for him to remember.

Afterward, Barnes recalled, Kerry and others stepped outside the church for a break, only to see FBI agents taking pictures of them from across the street. Barnes recalled saying to Kerry: "You've been thinking about this a long time."

And Barnes recalled Kerry saying: "Yeah, since high school."

More evidence that Kerry's actions, including his war service and his VVAW activities were motivated by political ambition.

A pattern is starting to appear...

One [FBI] report from Oklahoma said, "The entire conference lacked coordination and appeared to be a platform for John Kerry, national leader of VVAW rather than for VVAW."

...the pattern continues...

Another concluded that a speech he gave at George Washington University was "a clear indication that Kerry is an opportunist with personal political aspirations."

...and continues...

Kerry recalled his opposition to VVAW leaders meeting with North Vietnamese officials. "I thought that would be disastrous to the credibility of the organization," he said, "to the people we were trying to convince about the war."

Some more selective history by the LA Times. Prior to this meeting, during his Senate testimony, Kerry claimed to have met with the enemy (North Vietnamese - DPRK, and North Vietnamese run puppet shadow government for the south - PRG).

Naturally, the Times didn't bother to report this also. Nor did they report that John Kerry, in that same testimony, urged the Senate to accept the negotiation points of the enemy - which was tantamount to urging surrender.
From Frontpage Magazine John Kerry's Political Friends:


Mr. Barnes was present as part of the Kansas City host chapter for the 1971 meeting and recounted the incident in a phone interview with The New York Sun this week.


In addition to Mr. Barnes’s recollection placing Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting, another Vietnam veteran who attended the meeting, Terry Du-Bose, said that Mr. Kerry was there.



There are at least two other independent corroborations that the antiwar group Vietnam Veterans Against the War, of which Mr. Kerry was the most prominent national spokesman, considered assassinating American political leaders who favored the war.
And we have the FBI reports confirming this.
Gerald Nicosia’s 2001 book Home To War reports that one of the key leaders of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Scott Camil,“proposed the assassination of the most hard-core conservative members of Congress,as well as any other powerful, intractable opponents of the antiwar movement.” The book reports on the Kansas City meeting at which Mr.Camil’s plan was debated and then voted down.



Mr. Nicosia’s book was widely praised by reviewers as varied as General Harold Moore, author of We Were Soldiers; Gloria Emerson, who had been a New York Times reporter during the Vietnam War, and leftist Howard Zinn. Mr. Kerry himself stated in a blurb on the cover that the book “ties together the many threads of a difficult period.” Mr. Kerry hosted a party for the book in the Hart Senate Office Building that was televised on C-SPAN.



Another source is an October 20,1992, oral history interview of Scott Camil on file at the University of Florida Oral History Archive. In it,Mr.Camil speaks of his plan for an alternative to Mr. Kerry’s idea of symbolically throwing veterans’ medals over the fence onto the steps of the Capitol during the Dewey Canyon III demonstration in Washington in April of 1971.



“My plan was that, on the last day we would go into the [congressional] offices we would schedule the most hardcore hawks for last * and we would shoot them all,” Mr. Camil told the Oral History interviewer. “I was serious.”



In a phone interview with the Sun this week, Mr. Camil did not dispute either the account in the Nicosia book or in the oral history. He said he plans to accept an offer by the Florida Kerry organization to become active in Mr. Kerry’s presidential campaign. Campaign aides to Mr. Kerry invited Mr.Camil to a meeting for the senator in Orlando last week, but they did not meet directly.
[...]
According to the Nicosia book and interviews with VVAW members who were involved, at theVietnam Veterans Against the War Kansas City leadership conference, Mr. Camil tried to put his plan into effect. He called together eight to 10 Marines to organize something he called “The Phoenix Project.” The original Phoenix Project during the Vietnam War was an attempt to destroy the Viet Cong leadership by assassination. Mr. Camil’s Phoenix Project planned to execute the Southern senatorial leadership that was financing the Vietnam War. Senators like John Stennis, Strom Thurmond, and John Tower were his targets, according to Mr. Camil. They were to be killed during the Senate Christmas recess the following month.



After an attempt to parcel out the hit jobs required to kill the senators, Mr. Camil’s plan was presented to all the chapter coordinators present and the VVAW leadership. Mr. Nicosia’s book recounts, “What Camil sketched was so explosive that the coordinators feared lest government agents even hear of it. So they decamped to a church on the outskirts of town with the intention of debating the plan in complete privacy.When they got to the church, however, they found that the government was already on to them; their ‘debugging expert’ uncovered microphones hidden all over the place. An instantaneous decision was made to move again to Common Ground, a Mennonite hall used by homeless vets as a ‘crash pad.’”

“Camil was deadly serious, brilliant, and highly logical,” Mr. Nicosia told the Sun.


The pattern is clear. During 1970 and 1971 Kerry was using the radical VVAW as his stepping stone to political office. At the same time, he was collaborating with an enemy who was daily killing Americans and holding our prisoners in the Hanoi Hilton. He also gave a very damaging and perjurious presentation to the United States Senate.

John Kerry is not an honorable man. John Kerry is not a patriot. John Kerry is a disgrace to this nation, to Vietnam Veterans, and the Navy.

 

[Peregrinator]

just ONE story

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/kerry_kan_plot1.htm

ignored as a RW hit piece

of course

It's hard to imagine whay a group called "vietnam veterans against john kerry" wouldn't be seen as a credible source, huh? Damn MSM for ignoring such a non-partisan source.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Oh give me a break. You couldn't keep a presidential candidate plotting to kill US senators quiet. We got coverage of the swift boat thing over here, are you telling me this wouldn't be major news? Try pulling the other one, it's got bells on.

I'm inclined to believe you.
However, given the play Bush's military record received in 2004, when his records were available for access by the press and public via the Internet, no one in the media seemed at all interested in Kerry's records, which were not made available. Making the records available was a simple matter of signing a release.
Seems like with all the Swift Boat stuff going on, the NYT might show a little initiative and get to the bottom of this.
Why did no one in the mainstream media hound Kerry about his records?
Instead, just before the election, Rather goes on 60 Minutes and makes an ass of himself with some bogus documents about Bush's military service.

 

[busybody..]

even the Times carried it

BUT in theor OWN way

April 24, 2004
How to read the Times

The article by David Halbfinger in this morning's New York Times covers John Kerry's VVAW days. In some respects the article is a case study in how the Times treats the lead feet of the heroes of the paper's story lines: "Kerry role in antiwar veterans is delicate issue in his campaign."

The article catches up with a month-old story that refuses to die, the story of Kerry's possilbe attendance at the famous VVAW Kansas City meeting at which he mulled over the plot to kill United States senators. The story makes its debut appearance in the Times. You have to reconstruct what you've missed over the past month from the lead, but here it is:

When questions were raised last month about whether a 27-year-old John Kerry had attended a Kansas City meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War where the assassination of senators was discussed, the Kerry presidential campaign went into action.

It accepted the resignation of a campaign volunteer in Florida, Scott Camil, the member of the antiwar group who raised the idea in November 1971 of killing politicians who backed the war. The campaign pressed other veterans who were in Kansas City, Mo., 33 years ago to re-examine their hazy memories while assuring them that Mr. Kerry was sure he had not been there.

John Musgrave, a disabled ex-marine from Baldwin City, Kan., who told The Kansas City Star that Mr. Kerry was at the meeting, said he got a call from John Hurley, the Kerry campaign's veterans coordinator.

"He said, `I'd like you to refresh your memory,' " Mr. Musgrave, 55, recounted in an interview, confirming an account he had given to The New York Sun. "He said it twice. `And call that reporter back and say you were mistaken about John Kerry being there.' "

Such little-noticed moments in Mr. Kerry's past — including his decision at age 26 to meet the Vietcong emissaries to the Paris peace talks — are coming under new scrutiny now, as Mr. Kerry finally makes the presidential run that his comrades in arms, and in the antiwar movement, half-mockingly predicted decades ago.

In an interview about his antiwar activities, Mr. Kerry said that he knew nothing of attempts by his campaign to tinker with the past and that he disapproved. "People's memories are people's memories," he said, adding that he had no memory of the Kansas City meeting.

Mr. Hurley says he was merely asking Mr. Musgrave to be accurate, "because his memory was contrary to everything I was hearing."

It's a long, important article. Please read it all.

 

[Peregrinator]

he ran as a candidate for Senate on the PLATFORM that the US (in 1984) should UNILATERALY disarm from all NUKE weapons

AND

the RR program of depolying MX missles in Europe was wrong, provocative and anti peaceful!

DISARM AMERICA, ON YOUR OWN

Kerry!

Hey, you just reminded me...did you google the cocaine/Reagan story yet?

 

[busybody..]

It's hard to imagine whay a group called "vietnam veterans against john kerry" wouldn't be seen as a credible source, huh? Damn MSM for ignoring such a non-partisan source.

why wouldnt they be a CREDIBLE source?

are you saying that those vets are lying?

for 34 years?

 

[phrodeau]

If they didn't have the word, "Clintonesque", they'd need to use "Reaganesque" or "Nixonian".

 

[Peregrinator]

I'm inclined to believe you.
However, given the play Bush's military record received in 2004, when his records were available for access by the press and public via the Internet, no one in the media seemed at all interested in Kerry's records, which were not made available. Making the records available was a simple matter of signing a release.
Seems like with all the Swift Boat stuff going on, the NYT might show a little initiative and get to the bottom of this.
Why did no one in the mainstream media hound Kerry about his records?
Instead, just before the election, Rather goes on 60 Minutes and makes an ass of himself with some bogus documents about Bush's military service.

I wondered that myself, actually. The Rathergate piece was interesting. I forget her name, but I saw an op-ed piece by the woman who was the lead investigator in the memos thing...interesting perspective.

 

[busybody..]

It's hard to imagine whay a group called "vietnam veterans against john kerry" wouldn't be seen as a credible source, huh? Damn MSM for ignoring such a non-partisan source.


why wouldnt they be a CREDIBLE source?

are you saying that those vets are lying?

for 34 years?


Perg,

I might ADD

that during the campaign, Kerry STEPPED back from VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING he testified to in 1971 and 1972

Those interviews, where he LIED, are available, April 18 1971, Meet The Press

He calls US soldiers BABY KILLERS, he said HE SAW em do it, he said HE HIMSELF was involved!

In 2004 he said HE LIED!

 

[Peregrinator]

why wouldnt they be a CREDIBLE source?

are you saying that those vets are lying?

for 34 years?

I'm saying that calling yourself something like that destroys your credibility, whoever or whatever you are. Would you take seriously a group called "six day war veterans against Israeli occupation?"

 

[busybody..]

I wondered that myself, actually. The Rathergate piece was interesting. I forget her name, but I saw an op-ed piece by the woman who was the lead investigator in the memos thing...interesting perspective.

Mapes, she wasnt an investiagtor, she was Rathers producer

The "memo" was written in 2004

 

[Sean]

just ONE story

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/kerry_kan_plot1.htm

ignored as a RW hit piece

of course

Posting the same piece from the same source over and over again doesn't make it true.

 

[Peregrinator]

It's hard to imagine whay a group called "vietnam veterans against john kerry" wouldn't be seen as a credible source, huh? Damn MSM for ignoring such a non-partisan source.


why wouldnt they be a CREDIBLE source?

are you saying that those vets are lying?

for 34 years?


Perg,

I might ADD

that during the campaign, Kerry STEPPED back from VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING he testified to in 1971 and 1972

Those interviews, where he LIED, are available, April 18 1971, Meet The Press

He calls US soldiers BABY KILLERS, he said HE SAW em do it, he said HE HIMSELF was involved!

In 2004 he said HE LIED!

Yeah, you've said this before. I'm not taking a contary position; I'm just asking questions, and making observations.